WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Once again, @ricohflex distorts the truth by comparing what is cleared stated in the report that it is based on a 12 years compilation. Why is @ricohflex using a 2 weeks statistics to dispute a claim?

Plus, the report also states that there are a total of 56 companies using the m43 mount and this includes BtoB companies which may not be photography related. The Yodobashi report is based on consumer cameras in a retail chain.

@ricohflex, are you insulting our intelligence or your own intelligence by making this kind of comparison.

OM Digital says they are number 1 in Japan – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

Yodobashi is a chain of camera stores in Japan.
It is only 1 retailer chain in one country.
The recent data is only for 2 weeks. Not yearly.

In the latest update, the top 10 are all either Full Frame or APS-C cameras from only 3 brands.
Nikon, Sony and Canon.
That is the current trend of the market.

Fuji and Pentax are excluded.
Panasonic Lumix and OMDS are excluded and are not even close to being included.
The buying public consumers of Yodobashi are proving that M43 has ZERO future.

Which makes the repeated boasts by OMDS that M43 has the No.1 market share in Japan - to be a blatant lie.

 

[ricohflex]

OMDS and Panasonic Lumix are business rivals. They hate each other.
They purposely cripple their cameras/lenses so that it will NOT function fully/properly if used with the rival brand.
That is, if you buy a Lumix lens, the MegaOIS may not work if mounted on an Olympus body. Vice versa.

Other major camera manufacturers have taken note of all this infighting
In the years from 2008 to 2023, NONE (ZERO) (NIL) other big name manufacturer has adopted the M43 format.
Why should other big name manufacturers get on board this M43 sinking ship?

When the 2 clowns on board (OMDS & Panasonic Lumix) are actively trying to kill each other - while the ship is sinking?

This is the strange situation in Jun 2023.
Olympus Camera Division was killed and OMDS is simply a dead body trying to achieve Resurrection.
Panasonic Lumix pays lip service to M43, while going all out 100% to make its Full Frame L mount successful.

What Robin Wong suggests is not going to happen.

 

[Pitachu]

MegaOIS??? Wow! @ricohflex when was the last time you used a M43 lenses?
Panasonic switched to PowerOIS for the lenses with IS after 2015.
OMDS is established in 2020.

I recently bought a Panasonic 100-300 OIS to use with my OM-1 and it works perfectly,
both with the IS on the lenses switched ON and OFF.

Also, when I update my OM-1 with the OM Workspace, it offered to update the firmware for all my Panasonic Lenses as well.

OMDS have been working closely with Panasonic, but each manufacturer prefer their own methods to implement their own body IS, so there could be some incompatibility, but NOT crippling their lenses.

@ricohflex please check your facts before coming out with so much false accusations.

Also, I have already explained by the big boys did not adopt M43. Obviously you did not read my reply but keep blindly throwing rubbish accusations one after another. Big boys like Canon, Sony and Nikon made much more money selling lenses than selling 1 camera body. Will Canon adopt Sony Mount or vice versa?
Of course not. They all want to hold on to their customers to use their own mounts!!!

Panasonic did such a good job with their GH4 and GH5 and so many professional videographers are using them. Panasonic then went on to improve and came out with the GH6 which can be compared side by side with the latest Sony FX3 (see video link below)...And you call all these "Lip Service???"

OMDS and Panasonic Lumix are business rivals. They hate each other.
They purposely cripple their cameras/lenses so that it will NOT function fully/properly if used with the rival brand.
That is, if you buy a Lumix lens, the MegaOIS may not work if mounted on an Olympus body. Vice versa.

Other major camera manufacturers have taken note of all this infighting
In the years from 2008 to 2023, NONE (ZERO) (NIL) other big name manufacturer has adopted the M43 format.
Why should other big name manufacturers get on board this M43 sinking ship?

When the 2 clowns on board (OMDS & Panasonic Lumix) are actively trying to kill each other - while the ship is sinking?

This is the strange situation in Jun 2023.
Olympus Camera Division was killed and OMDS is simply a dead body trying to achieve Resurrection.
Panasonic Lumix pays lip service to M43, while going all out 100% to make its Full Frame L mount successful.

What Robin Wong suggests is not going to happen.

 

[Pitachu]

Meanwhile, OMDS continues to develop more lenses for its users.

My guess is that it will be
1) 50-200mm F2.8 (equivalent to 100-400mm)
2) 50-250mm F4.0 (equivalent to 100-500mm)

(guess based on the area indicated on the roadmap diagram and what users have been requesting)

Two OM Digital telephoto lens specs will be unveiled the second half of the year – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

As I mentioned in my previous post, I was surprised to meet a couple of Sony, Canon and Nikon users who bought the OM-1 as a 2nd camera, especially to use for Birding and Macro.

Commlite has just introduced a adapter for Canon users who want to use their existing lenses on the OM-1.
For any company to manufacture a product, it has probably done its market research that there is a demand for it.

Just announced: New version II of the Commlite Canon EF to MFT booster adapter – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Even the elite company is leaving the (still) photo industry. {Carl Zeiss continues to make lenses for cinema industry}.

Carl Zeiss is a different kettle of fish from M43 OMDS and Panasonic Lumix.

Carl Zeiss makes enough money supplying optics for the ASML machines, that are in turn, used to make semiconductor chips.
As a result, Carl Zeiss is so dominant in optics that it does not need the (still) photo industry.
Whereas at the other extreme, M43 OMDS and Panasonic Lumix are struggling to survive with very low market share.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex All the things you said were not from the video but your own conclusions.

What is mentioned in the video is "Japanese manufacturers tend to copy one another with little innovation"
eg. Nikon, Canon etc

On the Contrary manufacturers with small market share ie. Panasonic and OMDS has no choice but to innovate to stand out from the rest.
Look at all the computational features in the OM1 and the video features of the Panasonic GH4 to GH6.

And look at what Nikon and Canon do..... increase resolution, or produce crippled budget models like the Canon R100.
Look at all the lenses OMDS has released so far, what innovative lenses have for example Nikon released?

Even the elite company is leaving the (still) photo industry. {Carl Zeiss continues to make lenses for cinema industry}.

Carl Zeiss is a different kettle of fish from M43 OMDS and Panasonic Lumix.

Carl Zeiss makes enough money supplying optics for the ASML machines, that are in turn, used to make semiconductor chips.
As a result, Carl Zeiss is so dominant in optics that it does not need the (still) photo industry.
Whereas at the other extreme, M43 OMDS and Panasonic Lumix are struggling to survive with very low market share.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex it is not true that Panasonic is abandoning M43 and focusing on Full Frame.
Panasonic is improving its M43 product line (see URL below)
It does not make sense for Panasonic to give up the GH series in M43 which is the cash cow of its camera division and focus on Full Frame where is is so competitive and so far Panasonic has not made much headway. I used to visit some ad agencies and I saw that their recording studios, besides having bigger SLRs for video, they usually have a couple of GH4 and GH5 which they are actively using for various video shoots.

Yosuke Yamane manager CEO hints that the first Lumix MFT camera with phase detection might be announced soon! – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Credit: pbs.twimg.com

Film era lasted more than 100 years. Say, from 1885 when Kodak made roll film, until 2010 when Kodak stopped making Kodachrome.

Although Kodak engineer Steven Sasson made a digital camera prototype in 1975.
The first commercial digital camera was Fuji DS-1P, made in 1988.
In 2023 Digital photography era is in its infancy. It has a long way to go.
There will be great improvements over time.

Thus "ambassadors", "visionaries" and "snake oil salesmen" were used to psycho consumers.
To accept the idea that M43 very small sensor is all that you could ever need.
And that 20MP or 25MP is more than good enough for everyone.

This is because M43 manufacturers hit a technological brick wall due to very small M43 sensor size.
They cannot overcome the law of physics.
A very small sensor (M43) is a very small sensor - with all its related problems.
A medium sensor (APS-C) is a medium sensor.
A BIG sensor (Full Frame) is a BIG sensor.

There is no way to employ snake oil salesmen to argue their way around this law of physics.

The world of personal computers has a good lesson for the digital photography world.
In 1981, IBM launched its personal computer, the IBM PC with 64KB ram.
If you paid a lot more, you can opt for 640KB ram. That was the design limit.

In that 1981 era, some one said "640K ought to be enough for anybody."
That is exactly the attitude of M43 snake oil salesmen in 2023.

Nowadays in 2023 it is not unusual to have 64 Gigabytes Ram in our PCs.
64 GB is 100,000 times 640KB. Or 1,000,000 times 64KB.
That is how quickly technology has improved.

Thus as times passes, the idea that M43 sensor size is "good enough" will become obsolete.
Sensor sizes will increase and improve.

People in future will wonder how photographers in 2023, tolerated the ridiculously small M43 sensors.
In the same way that in 2023, owners of 64GB PCs wonder how in 1981, users tolerated a PC with 640KB. Or worse, 64KB.

 

[Pitachu]

If sensor size and resolution is the most important, then how did mobile phone with 12mp (until recently) and extremely small sensor took over 80% of the camera market?

This clearly proves that a user's convenience is more important than megapixel and sensor size.
And where is the biggest "snake oil" show?
Go and watch Apple preview of its latest iphone in September every year.
They have been telling users how good and how much they have improved on the camera!
BUT...... if it is really snake oil, then all the users will not be coming back year after year,
buying more and more until Apple became a Trillion Dollar camera.

Same for the M43 Ambassadors you are accusing?
If everything they say is snake oil, do you think we still will be subscribing to their channel?
Surely the M43 users here are smart enough to discern Snake Oil from facts and condemn the reviewers.
@ricohflex are you insinuating that the M43 users here are dumb and being bluff by these ambassadors?
Come on, for me and several of my friends, we go around asking other real users of their opinions and experience
and if possible try those equipment before I purchase them, be it Sony or Olympus/OMDS.
The reviews by these ambassadors only point us at a direction to look at and verify.
How many actually took out their wallet and make a purchase after watching a video review?

Credit: pbs.twimg.com

Film era lasted more than 100 years. Say, from 1885 when Kodak made roll film, until 2010 when Kodak stopped making Kodachrome.

Although Kodak engineer Steven Sasson made a digital camera prototype in 1975.
The first commercial digital camera was Fuji DS-1P, made in 1988.
In 2023 Digital photography era is in its infancy. It has a long way to go.
There will be great improvements over time.

Thus "ambassadors", "visionaries" and "snake oil salesmen" were used to psycho consumers.
To accept the idea that M43 very small sensor is all that you could ever need.
And that 20MP or 25MP is more than good enough for everyone.

This is because M43 manufacturers hit a technological brick wall due to very small M43 sensor size.
They cannot overcome the law of physics.
A very small sensor (M43) is a very small sensor - with all its related problems.
A medium sensor (APS-C) is a medium sensor.
A BIG sensor (Full Frame) is a BIG sensor.

There is no way to employ snake oil salesmen to argue their way around this law of physics.

The world of personal computers has a good lesson for the digital photography world.
In 1981, IBM launched its personal computer, the IBM PC with 64KB ram.
If you paid a lot more, you can opt for 640KB ram. That was the design limit.

In that 1981 era, some one said "640K ought to be enough for anybody."
That is exactly the attitude of M43 snake oil salesmen in 2023.

Nowadays in 2023 it is not unusual to have 64 Gigabytes Ram in our PCs.
64 GB is 100,000 times 640KB. Or 1,000,000 times 64KB.
That is how quickly technology has improved.

Thus as times passes, the idea that M43 sensor size is "good enough" will become obsolete.
Sensor sizes will increase and improve.

People in future will wonder how photographers in 2023, tolerated the ridiculously small M43 sensors.
In the same way that in 2023, owners of 64GB PCs wonder how in 1981, users tolerated a PC with 640KB. Or worse, 64KB.

 

[ricohflex]

Sony A7 III launch price in April 2018 was US$1,999 (say US $2,000)
Olympus OM-D E-M1X launch price in Jan 2019 was US $2,999 (say, US $3,000)

If some one told you today, they want to sell you a new 1 room flat at a price much higher (1.5 times higher) than a new 4 room flat.
Will you think it is a good deal?

The sensor of the Sony full frame camera is 4 times bigger than the silly Olympus M43 camera.

So why were some camera buyers so dumb in 2019? Maybe a case of "sunken costs". Already dropped into the hole and trapped inside.
However, the very low World Wide market share of M43 means that consumers are not stupid anymore in 2023.
Consumers have awakened to the outrageousness of the deal. And they reject it.

Credit: cameradecision.com

 

[felixcat8888]

Taken with the EM1 MKIII without flash. This is how good the m43 sensor is.

 

[Duo Serephy]

My feelings about the MFT future in Sg. these are based on my own experience.

I felt that the MFT is dying in Sg at least. I tried search for brand new Panasonic and Olympus bodies and my search was not successful. In the end I bought a 2nd hand EP-L9 and a GF10. Finding the lens for these cameras are the same story. Either the new lens are old stocks and way over my budget or I have to get the 2nd hand ones or 3rd party China made ones.

I love using the EP-L9 as it gives me a similar experience with the early 2000s point and shoot. A recent overseas trip also confirms my preference of the MFT over the ASPC system with its portability. I feel that using the MFT requires a different approach when compare to the ASPC system.

Unless the MFT is made more wide available in Sg, I dun see how the MFT can have a bright future in Sg.

 

[felixcat8888]

My feelings about the MFT future in Sg. these are based on my own experience.

I felt that the MFT is dying in Sg at least. I tried search for brand new Panasonic and Olympus bodies and my search was not successful. In the end I bought a 2nd hand EP-L9 and a GF10. Finding the lens for these cameras are the same story. Either the new lens are old stocks and way over my budget or I have to get the 2nd hand ones or 3rd party China made ones.

I love using the EP-L9 as it gives me a similar experience with the early 2000s point and shoot. A recent overseas trip also confirms my preference of the MFT over the ASPC system with its portability. I feel that using the MFT requires a different approach when compare to the ASPC system.

Unless the MFT is made more wide available in Sg, I dun see how the MFT can have a bright future in Sg.

New Olympus bodies can still be bought from some camera shops in Funan and Sim Lim Square. I have seen them being sold. You can buy the OM-1 or OM-5 new. Panasonic bodies are the GX9 or GF-10 and the GH-6 being sold new.

 

[ricohflex]

(edited)
The answer to thread question will depend on at least 2 factors. 1) Camera buying consumers 2) The M43 camera manufacturers.

In the short term M43 may struggle on. It is a slow death.
In the long term the answer is that M43 definitely has no future. Why? Progress is why. This is the unstoppable improvement in technology.
It is the same reason why most PC users in 2023 are not using 8088 processor or a 5 Megabyte hard drive or a monochrome green CRT monitor.

Note that even if world wide market share for M43 is less than 1%, OMDS and Panasonic Lumix may continue to make M43 cameras and lenses.
Because their parent companies JIP and Panasonic continue to indulge in their money losing subsidiaries.
If JIP and Panasonic are willing to lose mountains of money each year for the next 50 years, then it is their business decision. So be it.

They continue to make even when very few or no one wants to buy. It is insane. But that is not our problem.

For the individual consumer, be aware that the high end M43 lenses are EXPENSIVE.
If you build a system, it can add up to a big pile of money. And for what?
No matter how good the lens, it is crippled by a very small M43 image sensor. Beware before you make this mistake.

 

[felixcat8888]

The answer to thread question will depend on at least 2 factors. 1) Camera buying consumers 2) The M43 camera manufacturers.

In the short term M43 may struggle on. It is a slow death.
In the long term the answer is that M43 definitely has no future. Why? Progress is why. This is the unstoppable improvement in technology.
It is the same reason why most PC users in 2023 are not using 8088 processor or a 20 Kilobyte hard drive or a monochrome green CRT monitor.

Note that even if world wide market share for M43 is less than 1%, OMDS and Panasonic Lumix may continue to make M43 cameras and lenses.
Because their parent companies JIP and Panasonic continue to indulge in their money losing subsidiaries.
If JIP and Panasonic are willing to lose mountains of money each year for the next 50 years, then it is their business decision. So be it.

They continue to make even when no one wants to buy. It is insane. But that is not our problem.

For the individual consumer, be aware that the high end M43 lenses are EXPENSIVE.
If you build a system, it can add up to a big pile of money. And for what?
No matter how good the lens, it is crippled by a very small M43 image sensor. Beware before you make this mistake.

@ricohflex Have you ever used any m43 camera or the lenses before? My Pentax kakis and I have 2 or even 3 systems to shoot with. The m43 system is light, bright and sharp. Does not need a Full Frame camera to get the output that we want. In fact, any camera can do it. It is always the one holding the camera that produces good photos.

 

[Duo Serephy]

New Olympus bodies can still be bought from some camera shops in Funan and Sim Lim Square. I have seen them being sold. You can buy the OM-1 or OM-5 new. Panasonic bodies are the GX9 or GF-10 and the GH-6 being sold new.

Oh mine, if only I meet you earlier! I may not have gotten the 2nd hand GF10! The biggest issue I have with the GF10 is the body colour, which is pink…..

I wonder when we can get a new Panasonic MFT camera with phase detection, 3 way rotating screen and ibis, rangefinder style.

 

[Blu-By-U]

I get a lot of my preloved stuff from here. Just scroll down to the marketplace and you can have lots of choices. SG is small anf hence meeting up to COD is easy.

Other than @richoflex here, most of us will be willing to guide you if you need any help.

 

[Duo Serephy]

I get a lot of my preloved stuff from here. Just scroll down to the marketplace and you can have lots of choices. SG is small anf hence meeting up to COD is easy.

Other than @richoflex here, most of us will be willing to guide you if you need any help.

Tks for the guidance, will drop by time to time to check items.
I hope the MFT fortune can turn around in the foreseeable future.

Interestingly, just yesterday, I saw a YouTube clip by a photographer predicting Full Frame will soon be dethroned by the APSC in the near future due to the technology advancement of the sensor. Just like how Medium Format is been dethroned by 35mm film in the 1960.

If the predictions is spot on, will MFT be the future new king?

 

[JW73]

High end lenses from other FF brands are much more expensive than the high end lens of m43.

There is one guy trying very hard repeating the same predictions of m43 death since 2020 if u are free u look at this forum section..lol. The same guy (not mentioning name) also mentioned the prices of m43 will “dived” and no 2nd hand shops are selling m43. Now already June 2023 and OMS has released a few new lenses. If u walk around Peninsular area tomorrow, u will still see 2nd hand m43 gears being display and the prices still hold.

M43 has survived the FF DsLR onslaught and still developing even after the DSLR mounts system stopped developing new stuff.

M43 is gaining traction in the outdoor photography sector due to the light weight overall system (not just body), great quality and AI help like procapture etc. There are 2 more telezoom lenses rumoured to be announced soon.

M43 will be here to stay as a niche imho but will not be as big as the bigger brands who are now busy developing FF mirrorless stuff.

Noise level on the so call smaller sensors are no more an issue with so many great noise reduction softwares like topaz , dxo and lightroom. Even FF users are using these softwares. You got to ask why? Is FF really noise free at high iso?

Depth of field issue of small sensor can be overcome with the correct lens choice and ensure subject/background distance is far.