WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[ricohflex]

User loses faith.

One of the comments on that video site by a Brian Provost was accurate.
Quote [
This is 2023. Fair is in the past. This is an investment company. Sell the products for as much as you can. Then pull the plug. Move on to the next company. You use the company's history to make money. A fool and his money is your target. Olympus sold the company. This has nothing to do with Olympus and nothing to do about photography but about money. I own Olympus 4/3 photography equipment and now I need to look elsewhere. End of story.
] UnQuote

 

[Pitachu]

Author of the video Eric Gibaud do have some valid views.

Brian Provost is just like @ricohflex critical about everything about OMDS.
Brian has no idea of the motive and structure of any business.
So what if OMDS is owned by an investment company.
Sony is also owned by investors and investment companies too.

All company's objective is to make money.
Look at the prices of Sony products...... yes they are costly too!
As long as there are people willing to pay for it......they see value in it.

And honestly, isn't OMDS under JIP doing better than Pentax, Ricoh, Hasselblad etc who have hardly released anything new the last few years? And Pentax is into Full Frame, which you always claim is the formula for success if Olympus had followed.

User loses faith.

One of the comments on that video site by a Brian Provost was accurate.
Quote [
This is 2023. Fair is in the past. This is an investment company. Sell the products for as much as you can. Then pull the plug. Move on to the next company. You use the company's history to make money. A fool and his money is your target. Olympus sold the company. This has nothing to do with Olympus and nothing to do about photography but about money. I own Olympus 4/3 photography equipment and now I need to look elsewhere. End of story.
] UnQuote

 

[one eye jack]

Also DJI aquires majority stake in Hasselblad.

Why did DJI acquire Hasselblad? Think Volvo

The Chinese startup believes it can breathe new life into a storied brand

www.theverge.com

Author of the video Eric Gibaud do have some valid views.

Brian Provost is just like @ricohflex critical about everything about OMDS.
Brian has no idea of the motive and structure of any business.
So what if OMDS is owned by an investment company.
Sony is also owned by investors and investment companies too.

All company's objective is to make money.
Look at the prices of Sony products...... yes they are costly too!
As long as there are people willing to pay for it......they see value in it.

And honestly, isn't OMDS under JIP doing better than Pentax, Ricoh, Hasselblad etc who have hardly released anything new the last few years? And Pentax is into Full Frame, which you always claim is the formula for success if Olympus had followed.

 

[ricohflex]

Oh, new twist to an old trick. It is not illegal. Just a new approach to marketing. But it is very misguided and will end in FAILURE.
The sad part of it is that OMDS is repeating the same old dumb mistake that ruined Olympus Camera Division.
Paying snake oil salesmen to say ridiculously good things about their LOUSY camera products.

Instead of spending money and effort to improve their products, OMDS is just trying to psycho consumers.
But the buying public is NOT stupid.

Recently about Jan 2023, OMDS has started to not re-contract some visionaries and ambassadors.
Instead, what we get are people who out of the blue, claim they suddenly love OMDS M43 and make many videos praising it.
There is one UK based so-called "landscape photographer" who claims to dump all his Canon full frame and buy OMDS M43 cameras/lenses.

Now you know that REAL landscape photographers think that full frame is too small. They prefer medium format and even large format.
In film era, some landscape photographers use 4x5 or 8x10 formats.
For a so-called "landscape photographer" to reject full frame (whatever brand), to adopt M43 (with a pitifully small sensor) is nonsensical.

It is not known whether OMDS paid money directly or indirectly to this snake oil salesman.
It takes a lot of money, time and effort to produce YouTube videos. A rough estimate is US$5,000 per video.
If you think his palms were not greased to flatter OMDS products in a grovelling way, then I got a bridge to sell to you.

 

[Pitachu]

I just need to clarify a couple of points:

1. YouTube content creators cannot deviate too much from the truth. They will be slammed in the comments section of the video!
2. What are your points that Olympus produce LOUSY camera products? Can you offer alternatives to the OM-1 or the 150-400 wit built in TC or the OM System 90mm Macro? Just because you failed to see their strengths does not mean that they are lousy products. All products have their strengths and weaknesses.
3. Ambassadors are not paid about US $5000 from the manufacturers for 1 video!!!! (though they can earn much more if the viewership on youtube is high). I do have friends in Mgt level in Sony, Canon, Olympus and Epson. They did share with me what they can provide as rewards, it is way below that amount in terms of monetary rewards. But there are a lot of other non monetary perks
4. And don't think you can pay influencer to talk good about products they do not like. I happen to know a food blogger who rejected a hawker willing to pay him for a good review but he refused, because he don't think the food is good enough and he do not want to spoil his reputation! Same for camera reviewers.
5. Psycho consumers with some youtube videos are not going to be that effective lah. For me I always ask my shooting kakis or borrow/rent the gear to test out first. After all, all reviews are subjective depending on the reviewers needs and preferences.

Oh, new twist to an old trick. It is not illegal. Just a new approach to marketing. But it is very misguided and will end in FAILURE.
The sad part of it is that OMDS is repeating the same old dumb mistake that ruined Olympus Camera Division.
Paying snake oil salesmen to say ridiculously good things about their LOUSY camera products.

Instead of spending money and effort to improve their products, OMDS is just trying to psycho consumers.
But the buying public is NOT stupid.

Recently about Jan 2023, OMDS has started to not re-contract some visionaries and ambassadors.
Instead, what we get are people who out of the blue, claim they suddenly love OMDS M43 and make many videos praising it.
There is one UK based so-called "landscape photographer" who claims to dump all his Canon full frame and buy OMDS M43 cameras/lenses.

Now you know that REAL landscape photographers think that full frame is too small. They prefer medium format and even large format.
In film era, some landscape photographers use 4x5 or 8x10 formats.
For a so-called "landscape photographer" to reject full frame (whatever brand), to adopt M43 (with a pitifully small sensor) is nonsensical.

It is not known whether OMDS paid money directly or indirectly to this snake oil salesman.
It takes a lot of money, time and effort to produce YouTube videos. A rough estimate is US$5,000 per video.
If you think his palms were not greased to flatter OMDS products in a grovelling way, then I got a bridge to sell to you.

 

[one eye jack]

Follow up to the Asus public relations saga. Gamers nexus considered it resolved. A recap of events that led to final resolution. A case study of what a $20 billion company should not do and lessons learned.

Public service announcement, we should be thankful camera companies did not shirk it's responsibilities to loyal customers although there were incidents that left a bitter aftertaste with big name brands. Here is a lesson I hope will never happen although computers are needed to process photos.

 

[ricohflex]

Another M43 killer.
It is not a super high spec camera.
Super low price - cheaper than half the price of some smart phones.
It is the most basic and --- CHEAP budget entry level camera.

By the way, this most basic budget camera has a USB-C port.
Eat your heart out OM System OM-5 (at more than twice the price) with its very obsolete and outdated Micro-USB port.
Even Robin Wong condemned this aspect of OM System OM-5.

What is the difference?
This thing has room for the buyer to GROW into the RF system.
When the buyer is ready and can afford, he can buy higher spec camera bodies and lenses.

Whereas the M43 buyer is basically buying a stunted dwarf system that cannot grow and is condemned to a dead format.

Canon is clever to get young buyers or family purchases to buy INTO the RF system.
This locks them in and their future purchases will likely be within the Canon RF system.

It is priced to sell in high volumes at hypermarts like Walmart, Tesco, Aeon, Jusco and in electronic appliance stores like Harvey Norman, Best Denki.
This thing is aimed at the masses.
With high saturation, Canon can later on achieve a huge market share.

This kind of wisdom, the idiots at OMDS will never understand.
OMDS may be too busy getting snake oil salesmen to praise their lousy products.
That is why Olympus Camera Division deserved to die. And in time to come, so will OMDS wind up.

Canon R100

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex , it's your wishful thinking. R100 is so crippled that this guy will not touch it with a 10ft. pole.

Of course a reviewer will say good things as not to offend and get camera to review. At least I present a balanced view from both sides.

 

[Pitachu]

Canon RF users has only 47 lenses (from dpReview)
M43 users has 125 lenses to choose from plus OMDS have been actively introducing lenses.

And @ricohflex is saying M43 is a stunted dwarf system LOL

And you think people are excited about the R100?
Look at the above post from One Eye Jack.
R100 is so crippled that only short sighted people like @ricohflex will buy it and then outgrow it.

I have hardly heard of Users going for the EM5 Mk3 / OM5 outgrew it. The only complaints is the OM5 is only a minor upgrade from the EM5 mk 3,
but no one complained that either one of them is being heavily crippled like the Canon R100.

And talking about minor upgrades, I have been a canon user too.
Was there a huge difference between Canon 5D Mk1 to Mk2 to Mk3 to Mk4?
And the Canon 7D Mk1 & MK2 etc

Just because OMDS has finished selling its stock of EM5 mk3 and rebrand it as a OM5 with some minor upgrades,
reviewers came and attack the OM5............

Whereas the M43 buyer is basically buying a stunted dwarf system that cannot grow and is condemned to a dead format.

Canon is clever to get young buyers or family purchases to buy INTO the RF system.
This locks them in and their future purchases will likely be within the Canon RF system.

It is priced to sell in high volumes at hypermarts like Walmart, Tesco, Aeon, Jusco and in electronic appliance stores like Harvey Norman, Best Denki.
This thing is aimed at the masses.
With high saturation, Canon can later on achieve a huge market share.

This kind of wisdom, the idiots at OMDS will never understand.
OMDS may be too busy getting snake oil salesmen to praise their lousy products.
That is why Olympus Camera Division deserved to die. And in time to come, so will OMDS wind up.

Canon R100

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex called the Canon R100 a M43 killer.
It is obvious Canon designed the R100 to entice a beginner to buy and outgrew it later.
In addition to the limitations below, there is also no image stabilization and exp. compensation is limited to plus minus 2 (almost useless).
And this is a crop sensor model, and though you can use RF mount lenses, RF-S (only few available at the moment and you have to wait).
Remember those canon suckers who bought EOS -M series. Canon never produced more lenses.

Don;t even think of using FF lenses on a crop senser camera unless it is an emergency situation.
I certainly do not want to put a 35mm lenses and it become a 56mm lenses where all my portrait shots become half body shott etc.

And when son and nephew try to save money by buying Sony corp sensor models without IBIS, they regretted in a few months time.

The Olympus EM5 Mk3 and the OM-5 would at least last a beginner a much longer time before he can outgrew it!

Come on @ricohflex at least choose a better candidate if you want to suggest a M43 killer.

Source: https://www.techradar.com/news/the-new-canon-eos-r100-is-all-out-of-touch-with-beginners

 

[JW73]

Since the birth of M43 in 2008, there are many competitors especially Fujifilm. The true cropped with Pro range lenses sensor system are M43 & Fuji (IMHO) etc as their lenses are made for the sensor size.


If chose Canon , Nikon or Sony, I think it’s better to start with FF bodies as their best lenses are made for FF which u are paying for it.

 

[Pitachu]

I agree. Sony, Canon and Nikon don't seems to be committed to provide a full range of high quality lenses for the their corp sensor cameras.
eg. Sony did not release any of their excellent GM lenses for their 6000 series and same for Canon for their L-lenses.
Being able to use Full Frame lenses on a crop sensor camera never make any senses to me.
The main reason for using a crop sensor camera is to have a smaller and lighter camera body.
And expecting users to pair it with a heavier FF lenses make the whole thing so unbalanced that hardly any user do that
but they keep advertising this advantage as a teasing bait.

When my son outgrew his Sony 6300 due to the limited range of lenses, he sold off his camera and ALL the crop sensor lenses to move on to the A7 III.
It is just like changing brand or system!!!!!

So, it is actually better to start off with Fuji or M43 if anyone who prefer smaller crop sensor cameras.
At least they have the full range of high quality Pro lenses to choose from.

Since the birth of M43 in 2008, there are many competitors especially Fujifilm. The true cropped with Pro range lenses sensor system are M43 & Fuji (IMHO) etc as their lenses are made for the sensor size.


If chose Canon , Nikon or Sony, I think it’s better to start with FF bodies as their best lenses are made for FF which u are paying for it.

 

[ricohflex]

There are many YouTube videos insisting that M43 is not dead.

The video creators say so because:

• They are still using M43 cameras and lenses (maybe due to sunken costs).
• Their M43 cameras bought previously are "still working".
• They insist that they are happy with the image quality from the low MP sensor (but the rest of the world may not tolerate this).

They are all barking up the wrong tree.

When people comment M43 is dead, they mean that NEW generations of NEW camera buyers are NOT buying into M43 systems in 2023 and beyond. They mean that M43 has extremely low worldwide market share - probably less than 1%.

Few independent business entities can survive in the long term, if they have very low market share.
There are at least 2 exceptions to this rule.

1) Leica, Alpa and Arriflex (for video) have extreme high per unit price. For example Arriflex Alexa LF costs US$98,200.

2) The camera division is a business entity operating under a doting parent company that indulges the rogue CEO of the camera division in the latter's mismanagement and wrong business policies.
Not surprisingly, the 2 and only 2 (no one else) companies behind the M43 are exactly in this situation.
In the case of Olympus Camera Division, the parent company finally got fed up and pulled the life line plug, killing the money losing M43 business. After losing hundreds of millions of US$.
Lumix has a kinder parent company Panasonic that is still indulging in the idiotic persistence with M43. Lumix has wisely adopted L mount full frame and is less interested in M43 nowadays. Otherwise they too would have been on the chopping block.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Still don't know your angle.

 

[Pitachu]

New Generations of New Camera buyers are NOT buying from any brands, except those that need to use DSLR in their course or work. Just talk to anyone below 25 on getting a camera and they will look at you blankly and ask "For What? I can use my phone.....)

Digital Camera Sales has dropped 87% since 2010 (source: see URL below). All manufacturers are struggling with the remaining 13% share.
Manufacturers with smaller market share struggled the most as 10% of the remaining 13% is really small and is difficult to cover cost.

However, I would spend the remaining time enjoying whatever camera I prefer instead of bitching about which manufacturer has made the wrong decisions blah blah blah.

Every week I shoot with my M43 camera put a smile on my face..... for the last few years. Definitely worth the money spent already even if they go obsolete in 3 years time.

Infographic: Digital Camera Sales Dropped 87% Since 2010

This chart shows how many digital cameras the world's largest camera vendors shipped between 2003 and 2016.

www.statista.com

There are many YouTube videos insisting that M43 is not dead.

The video creators say so because:

• They are still using M43 cameras and lenses (maybe due to sunken costs).
• Their M43 cameras bought previously are "still working".
• They insist that they are happy with the image quality from the low MP sensor (but the rest of the world may not tolerate this).

They are all barking up the wrong tree.

When people comment M43 is dead, they mean that NEW generations of NEW camera buyers are NOT buying into M43 systems in 2023 and beyond. They mean that M43 has extremely low worldwide market share - probably less than 1%.

Few independent business entities can survive in the long term, if they have very low market share.
There are at least 2 exceptions to this rule.

1) Leica, Alpa and Arriflex (for video) have extreme high per unit price. For example Arriflex Alexa LF costs US$98,200.

2) The camera division is a business entity operating under a doting parent company that indulges the rogue CEO of the camera division in the latter's mismanagement and wrong business policies.
Not surprisingly, the 2 and only 2 (no one else) companies behind the M43 are exactly in this situation.
In the case of Olympus Camera Division, the parent company finally got fed up and pulled the life line plug, killing the money losing M43 business. After losing hundreds of millions of US$.
Lumix has a kinder parent company Panasonic that is still indulging in the idiotic persistence with M43. Lumix has wisely adopted L mount full frame and is less interested in M43 nowadays. Otherwise they too would have been on the chopping block.

 

[Pitachu]

One more thing on @ricohflex comment on low resolution of M43 sensors....

Why did Sony only put a 26mp sensor on its latest FX30 to offer as an alternative to compete with the Panasonic GH6? Why not put a much higher resolution sensor if high res is the main thing?

Anyway, the Panasonic GH6 is on par with the Sony FX30, depending on the situation you are in and what you need.
Watch the review below if you are keen to know more.

Panasonic GH6 vs Sony FX30 – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[one eye jack]

Is Tony right? M43 better sit up and listen.

 

[ricohflex]

Nope. If Sony has a secret, they won't let Tony Northrup know about it.
Actually Japan camera manufacturers still have the Nippon-First principle.
They cooperate. Maybe Japan METI is giving the command.
That is why Sony saved Olympus's backside - when the latter was destroyed by the 2011 accounting fraud scandal.

Some products have a life cycle.
After its invention/introduction, there is a rapid take up rate - sales are massive.
Competitors jump in and over a long period of time, consumer interest wanes or there is NEW technology. Sales slump.

Sony is a business oriented enterprise. Sony is not particularly enamoured with photography.
To Sony, cameras & lenses are just a means to an end - make money.
Sony makes enough money selling sensors to other companies, even if they leave the camera making business.

Once Sony senses that photography is not profitable anymore, they would kill it superfast.

Sony has done this before. Sony is cold-blooded about it and there is no sentiment when they kill a sector of its business empire.
• Sony Walkman cassette tape player
• Sony Memory Stick
• Sony PSP
• Sony super audio CD
• Sony Digital Audio Tape DAT
• Sony MiniDisc
• Sony Vaio
• Sony Experia mobile phones (still making but not exactly world beating market share)

Don't expect the dopes at OMDS still fixated on M43, to learn anything from Sony.
The Olympus Camera Division CEO who lost many hundreds of millions of US$, would not last 1 week in Sony. They would have fired him.

 

[Pitachu]

Sony is a different animal altogether. It can lose US$20 billion in its market cap and does not even blink an eye. (see bloomberg report below) That's how huge it's market cap is. Not even Canon or Nikon can do that.

Sony can keep introducing all kinds of cameras that failed and only need a couple to be successful.

It is not that Olympus are dudes and cannot learnt from Sony. Even bigger companies like Nikon cannot do that.

Companies' CEO at the end of the day have to pleased all the sharesholders or would be voted out.
CEO's need to keep the profitable divisions, create new profitable divisions and remove non profitable ones.
Sony, Nikon and Canon all did that.

But sometimes, when these companies have a vision, they may keep it going for a while.
Sony has been selling their PS5 at a lose for a while while fighting for market share (go and google it, I don't want to post too many urls here.

My main point is don't keep wondering or complaining which company is making right decisions or not. It will be more useful if you go out and shoot some photos with whatever sensor size you prefer and do some comparisons eg. Robin Wong. Good or bad it is ok, we will learn from it (eg. how to better handle the OM-1 AF) rather than keep rattering on their business decisions pretending you are an expert business manager!

We are all photographers here! So let's talk more about photography.

Sony Loses $20 Billion in Market Value After Microsoft Deal

Sony Group Corp. shares fell 13% in Tokyo on Wednesday, their biggest drop since October 2008, after PlayStation rival Microsoft Corp. announced a $69 billion deal to acquire games publisher Activision Blizzard Inc.

www.bloomberg.com

Nope. If Sony has a secret, they won't let Tony Northrup know about it.
Actually Japan camera manufacturers still have the Nippon-First principle.
They cooperate. Maybe Japan METI is giving the command.
That is why Sony saved Olympus's backside - when the latter was destroyed by the 2011 accounting fraud scandal.

Some products have a life cycle.
After its invention/introduction, there is a rapid take up rate - sales are massive.
Competitors jump in and over a long period of time, consumer interest wanes or there is NEW technology. Sales slump.

Sony is a business oriented enterprise. Sony is not particularly enamoured with photography.
To Sony, cameras & lenses are just a means to an end - make money.
Once Sony senses that photography is not profitable anymore, they would kill it superfast.

Sony has done this before. Sony is cold-blooded about it and there is no sentiment when they kill a sector of its business empire.
• Sony Walkman cassette tape player
• Sony Memory Stick
• Sony PSP
• Sony super audio CD
• Sony Digital Audio Tape DAT
• Sony MiniDisc
• Sony Vaio
• Sony Experia mobile phones (still making but not exactly world beating market share)

Don't expect the dopes at OMDS still fixated on M43, to learn anything from Sony.
The Olympus Camera Division CEO who lost many hundreds of millions of US$, would not last 1 week in Sony. They would have fired him.

 

[ricohflex]

Yodobashi is a chain of camera stores in Japan.
It is only 1 retailer chain in one country.
The recent data is only for 2 weeks. Not yearly.

In the latest update, the top 10 are all either Full Frame or APS-C cameras from only 3 brands.
Nikon, Sony and Canon.
That is the current trend of the market.

Fuji and Pentax are excluded.
Panasonic Lumix and OMDS are excluded and are not even close to being included.
The buying public consumers of Yodobashi are proving that M43 has ZERO future.

Which makes the repeated boasts by OMDS that M43 has the No.1 market share in Japan - look very silly.