To the Admins ONLY

[vince123123]

At the risk of a flame, my humble view is that the Avatar is merely an excuse for starting the thread all over again. You are right, if that was indeed the reason, it would have sufficed to simply inform her directly.

this (and it's related issues) are getting overblown.:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd:

if anyone thinks the modeling trade is without it's risk is simply not ready for the trade.... pretty similar to "hungry" moller that TNP trying to get a FREE tix to tokyo.

If TS want's to "protect" his Avatar... then since TS already know and is able to advice her... then why go on this vendetta forcing through simply because that person is at risk? Why not cut her from the internet as a whole??? terminate ALL her communications and keep her under lock and guard.... sheeze...

At the end of the day... if the temptation of glamor is too great for any individual and wants to play with fire.... better buy fire-protection suit instead.

 

[vince123123]

Yah, usually when pretty young girls involved, suddenly a lot of people will want to be protective and then ask OTHER people to be protective.

I like your Cathay example as well, and any other similar complaints about any other related group in photography, be it advertisers, suppliers, shops etc, Must CS Admin then step in to govern them all?

All the emotion just because a young girl is involved...double standards?

Hi TS and other like-minded members, I'm sorry, but may I know what's with this obsession about mollers and stuff?

From your other thread on a similar topic, only a few points stood out for me:

1. The model in ur Avatat is ur fren
2. She is pretty and she is pretty
3. You will hamtam any photographers that dare to play punk with her

My question is, what if she is not ur fren, what if she is not pretty, what if she's not a moller?
Will you still be as aggressive in your protection over her?

I think we should leave the beatings to the moller's bf or brothers or fathers, or even to the police.
Girls in model shoots are being paid their time, if they get harassed, CS must step in?
Mollers in TFCD want to get a portfolio for free, if they get harassed, CS must step in?

Next time if I get over-quoted and was given rude treatment when buying things at CP, I want CS to step in too?
Admins and Mods, can call that uncle and scold him for me!

Let's be realistic here, modeling is a cruel business in many ways. As a responsible photography community, we can
help create awareness and make a strong stand against perverts. But when it comes to a willingly moller and photographer
behind closed doors, it's really up to the individual to protect her own interests. There's only so much we can do.

With all due respect to fellow CSers who are concerned about the welfare of mollers, I believed most of us here share ur
views about protecting them from pervert photographers. But there's only so much we can do from behind the computer
screens. And to be frank, I think most of the mollers out there are more street-wise than a lot of the guys here :sweat:

 

[ortega]

At the risk of a flame, my humble view is that the Avatar is merely an excuse for starting the thread all over again. You are right, if that was indeed the reason, it would have sufficed to simply inform her directly.

don't say that lah

it is his reason, not an excuse

 

[CYRN]

umm... I hope TS no misunderstand my post and takes it personally. ( I apologies if my post "sounded" like such)

What I want to put across is such "protectionism" isn't healthy in the first place.... it's all about risk managment... not risk aversion, cuz it's not a healthy to grow up like that.

CS (as a community) should do something about it... BUT NOT CS (the forum).

But that's my own POV.

 

[Dream Merchant]

I wonder what would the reaction be if it were some young male moller that got propositioned by a hamsup female photographer? :sweatsm:

 

[CYRN]

I wonder what would the reaction be if it were some young male moller that got propositioned by a hamsup female photographer? :sweatsm:

all other male moller cries foul....

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

think you guys missed the crux of the issue.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5077481&postcount=24

The model in my avatar is a friend of mine.

Not only is she a beautiful girl as you may see her, but she is a very beautifull person.

If some creep approached her with a camera I don't really know how I would react, all I know is that he wouldn't be standing up for long.

The models in the photo shoots are no less beautifull people to me and I am not there to look after them.

I would like therefore to think that people are looking after them.



Simple

Cheers

He is making an issue out of a non existing issue. the red bold is what he did, not what i have done... just look at his emphasis on the issue.

The model in his avatar is his fren, ya, so?
Not only is she beautiful, and she is beautiful... ya? so again?
If some creep go sian her, he cannot tahan will go wallop him... so? this girl in CS offering TFCD?
So now every girl is as beautiful but not as beautiful as her, but still under his jurisdiction... so? but CS mods & admin is now his army... go forth and hunt those GWCs! duh...

Pablo... please keep your obsession with your avatar girl to yourself... this is getting ridiculous... night86mare thread was imho, ok... but u just spoilt it with your immaturity.

 

[ed9119]

.....what the hell's a moller ????

 

[vince123123]

Second you on that.

.....what the hell's a moller ????

I hope CS will not become a police/nanny state.

 

[ortega]

.....what the hell's a moller ????

i know that it is not a model

 

[GoheadGostern]

but i guess that is wat he want. CS being a nanny/army/police state.

 

[yqt]

i know that it is not a model

a moller is a model wannabe

 

[scandal599]

Pablo,

I can understand your views on this matter and believe me, you know my stand on this. But what you are doing goes way beyond the original intent and you are pushing for matters where you are involving your friend is something which I personally do not see the point but it is clouding your judgement here and by dragging your friend into the mix here honestly is something I am pretty much against.

While I empathise with you on this, but what you are saying by looking after them is something that goes beyond what we want. In essence, we are not talking about looking after models, but rather, to prevent any dubious and possible backlashes that may occur going forward when something happens. This is different from looking after them as you said. Yes as photographers going on group shoots, as I have stated before does not absolve us the responsibility of taking into consideration of the model's well being, but that said, it is not akin to looking after the model per se as what you are mentioning. One of the reasons I made that statement before is 2 fold: first to protect the photogrpahers on shoots, lest because of one person, the rest gets implicated and second is to ensure the model on the shoot does not get compromised. If this is looking after the model in a sense to you, then in that case for every group shoot, there should be a bouncer there to make sure nothing happens.

In a private shoot, then things are a completely different ball game. It is the photographer and the model. Then pray tell, who is to protect the model as there is no one looking after her? Unless you are willing to chapreon her on every shoot, then it is your choice.

At this time, I believe the mods and admins are in discussions. Rather than obfuscate the situation and make it worse why not just wait out and see? At this point, we have discussed this matter numerous times, not only at length but also in detail across three threads. Let us just wait and see.

 

[T.A.]

I did not notice this thread earlier but I've read up nearly the whole lot of them.
I can understand Pablo's frustration cos it'd happened to someone close to him.

Think I can summarise the situation as such :

1. What Canonised had said has a point in that if both are adults, in consent, no party is coerced into the act
and within the boundaries of the law then whatever our individual moral standards are, it's really their 'business'.

2. If the model did feel offended, she could leave at any moment?
Ninja23XX did think 1 step ahead just in case something happens.

3. Static pointed out that some maybe young, inexperienced and may not know how to handle such situations.
Especially if it's held at a private place the risk could be potentially higher,
they may feel pressurised to give in partly out of personal safety concerns.

4. For them maybe the best option could be to bring a friend along like what beckiish did.

There's no need to hit out at the admins even tho we may feel angry,
I doubt they can do much to what happens out of CS.:sweat:

 

[NineEleven]

With all due respect & the efforts of some concerned forumers but @ the rate this is going, are we going to restrict all portraits & any human associated shoots to "adults only"? (>21 please)

If models & photographers can't take of themselves, nobody can.

To be frank, sometimes I see young photographers doing lingerie shoots & I really wonder if they are matured enough to handle this subject & their photos.

Do we have to draw up a code of conduct for both model wannabes, organisers & photographers?

Each set will tell what you should & should not do

Eg.

As a model, you should expect & follow. Eg. charge realistic fees, be professional & be punctual! Know your rights & your limits etc.

Organiser: Don't overpromise, be honest, protect your models, be pro & must make end meets

Photographers: Be professional. The camera in your hand is to record events & images that are to be enjoyed & inform. It is a tool to earn $ as well as a hobby. It is not a tool to "befriend" that opp sex & worse, to victimise "helpless" models. U are responsible for your images & conduct.

What do u guys think? Then we'll have people printing it out & showing off the unprecendented "Clubsnap code of conducts" :bsmilie:

 

[paesyl]

Yes CS mod can draw out rules and regulations for different kinds of shoot but this is only what they can do...remember that are not policeman. What you want from MOD??? catch and beat them up??? the cons of asking CS to make rules is I can start to picture CS mod will be bomb and demand action from them if something happen.

Photographer need to be mature and model must know how to protect themselves. Make a police report if you want. To 'make a report' to CS (to me) is to warn others and maybe CS mod can ban that person...I dun know?

With all due respect & the efforts of some concerned forumers but @ the rate this is going, are we going to restrict all portraits & any human associated shoots to "adults only"? (>21 please)

If models & photographers can't take of themselves, nobody can.

To be frank, sometimes I see young photographers doing lingerie shoots & I really wonder if they are matured enough to handle this subject & their photos.

Do we have to draw up a code of conduct for both model wannabes, organisers & photographers?

Each set will tell what you should & should not do

Eg.

As a model, you should expect & follow. Eg. charge realistic fees, be professional & be punctual! Know your rights & your limits etc.

Organiser: Don't overpromise, be honest, protect your models, be pro & must make end meets

Photographers: Be professional. The camera in your hand is to record events & images that are to be enjoyed & inform. It is a tool to earn $ as well as a hobby. It is not a tool to "befriend" that opp sex & worse, to victimise "helpless" models. U are responsible for your images & conduct.

What do u guys think? Then we'll have people printing it out & showing off the unprecendented "Clubsnap code of conducts" :bsmilie:

 

[vince123123]

Another problem with Codes of Conduct is more controversy will be inbound:

1. Debate over whose standard of morality should prevail when the codes are drafted.
2. Misunderstanding that a CS Code of Conduct means any crying of foul will go to the Admins/Mods (which I'm sure is not intended).

I'm sure there will be more.

 

[NineEleven]

Another problem with Codes of Conduct is more controversy

Hey hey hey, I'm just joking. Don't take it seriously.

Since this site is free & mods/admin/owner don't make anything, why should they be responsible for so much? We should just watch over ourselves & remind each other of certain issues once in a while. Even if they put up a sticky or R&R, people are just blind & won't be bothered.

Maybe we can brainstorm & help them instead.

 

[vince123123]

Its' alright, I wasn't taking any offence at your statements Just highlighting my view only.

And I think you are right, why make CS admin for so many things for what? So funny... I guess that's the nanny state mentality many SG-reans have grown up with.

Hey hey hey, I'm just joking. Don't take it seriously.

Since this site is free & mods/admin/owner don't make anything, why should they be responsible for so much? We should just watch over ourselves & remind each other of certain issues once in a while. Even if they put up a sticky or R&R, people are just blind & won't be bothered.

Maybe we can brainstorm & help them instead.

 

[NineEleven]

Its' alright, I wasn't taking any offence at your statements Just highlighting my view only.

No prob sir, I know we weren't, guess we must take things on a lighter side. Too much agony lately & all for a good cause.

Take some fresh air with this nice image.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5017296&postcount=1