Suggestion: Code of Conduct for Lingerine and Nude Organised Shoots

[CYRN]

I'll go so far as to even say that Clubsnap is not a facilitator of such organisers. They are a mere medium by which organisers can advertise their shoots; akin to what a mod has said, a classified as in a newspaper. As such, no liability or duty exists.

Not sure about the "duty" thingy tho... as a dominant entity somehow things gets complicated.

 

[vince123123]

Well I'll say that Straits Times is also a dominant newspaper and I doubt anyone really holds THEM liable for mis-advertisements or the like.

If you see a timeshare ad in the Straits Times, do you whack them for running the ad?

Not sure about the "duty" thingy tho... as a dominant entity somehow things gets complicated.

 

[AverRal]

You see, organised shoots were first done to share the cost of the model (for those starting out). Then it moved into hiring Caucasian models, then young girls in bikini and then nudity.

You see, the whole point of organised shoots was to practice portrait photography, but it turned into a sleasy weekend hobby.

Well, that is why I think a mentor should step in to regulate these sessions, and lighting to be provided. However, many members feel it is not feasible due to added cost.

I am very open to suggestions on how to reinstill the learning aspect of photography through organised shoots. If you have something feasible that would work out do not hesitate to voice your views.

Other than that, please kindly PM me for any off topic discussions.

 

[TheQuestion]

[/QUOTE]
I hope you would kindly PM me to discuss, I would like to learn more from you. Its great to know differing views, but I am afraid that it does not contribute to the suggestion thread. We can talk here.[/QUOTE]


This is a pm averal sent to me. what's funny is that i said professional agency caliber models. i have never once said must use Caucasian international models. You want to have a dialouge do it in the open here. I'm not interested in exchanging pms with you when you seem to be selectively filtering what i have been saying and putting words in my mouth. especially since given your history i don't know if MY pm replies to you would wind up being splashed in TNP again. you brought things into the open. here we are doing what you want but you don't seem to want it.

 

[CYRN]

Well I'll say that Straits Times is also a dominant newspaper and I doubt anyone really holds THEM liable for mis-advertisements or the like.

If you see a timeshare ad in the Straits Times, do you whack them for running the ad?

for 1 thing... they got lawyers..and CS got non. :bsmilie::bsmilie:

*edit* and I dun tink Sg got class action thingy to defray cost.

 

[CYRN]

You see, organised shoots were first done to share the cost of the model (for those starting out). Then it moved into hiring Caucasian models, then young girls in bikini and then nudity.

You see, the whole point of organised shoots was to practice portrait photography, but it turned into a sleasy weekend hobby.

But...but...

then why are the models willing to pose for bikini and nudity... shouldn't the models be more self protective IF they see this as not suitable?

 

[scandal599]

You see, organised shoots were first done to share the cost of the model (for those starting out). Then it moved into hiring Caucasian models, then young girls in bikini and then nudity.

You see, the whole point of organised shoots was to practice portrait photography, but it turned into a sleasy weekend hobby.

Well, that is why I think a mentor should step in to regulate these sessions, and lighting to be provided. However, many members feel it is not feasible due to added cost.

I am very open to suggestions on how to reinstill the learning aspect of photography through organised shoots. If you have something feasible that would work out do not hesitate to voice your views.

Other than that, please kindly PM me for any off topic discussions.

And how do you propose that the mentor regulates the session? As pointed out, if some sleazebag wants to do "creative photography" who is to stop him? As a mentor, he is to guide. Whether he has to regulate the session, depends on himself entirely whether he deems it in his capacity to do so.

If you have any suggestions on this, I am all ears.

 

[designerwhere]

Seriously, the aim here is to get ideas to better the forums, something constructive to make this a better place for all parties involved.

Instead,there is alot of unnecessary provocations so as to provoke a response from Averal and me. Instead of finding a solution, everyone is just contented with pointing fingers. Pointing out the flaws of her suggestions and say that she is doing all this to generate attention or challenging her to conduct a shoot of her own. When asked to contribute , some just come up with a "Why Should I" attitude? Others label her as idealistic and say she is making a mountain out of a mole hill. That is because she cares for these young girls . She is not making money out of this. She is not getting a cent from anyone for doing this. In fact, she is getting flamed for every single thing she comments on. Just because she has the guts to stand out and say something.

I understand alot of photographers -Pro or hobbyist feels like they are being affected by this article. We think that alot of what we know now is going to change as a results of her actions but sometimes change is good. We fear change as we fear it will affect the way we lead our lives as we know it.

In the heat of the moment, hurtful words are hurled around like missiles and I am sure everything can be settled in a cordial manner. I appreciate those who are giving suggestions to make the forums a more condusive place to post in. As for the moderaters, I thank you for the effort you are putting in on a daily basis to patrol and make this a safe environment for all and yes, it is hard to keep an eye on every little thing in the forums itself and if any rude or unacceptable comments have been passed, I apologize. I sincerely hope we can put our personal differences aside and pool all our energies into making Clubsnap the most popular forums not only in Singapore but beyond that.

In peace the hand has been extended.

Merry meet and merry part till we merry meet again.

 

[TheQuestion]

Seriously, the aim here is to get ideas to better the forums, something constructive to make this a better place for all parties involved.

Instead,there is alot of unnecessary provocations so as to provoke a response from Averal and me. Instead of finding a solution, everyone is just contented with pointing fingers. Pointing out the flaws of her suggestions and say that she is doing all this to generate attention or challenging her to conduct a shoot of her own. When asked to contribute , some just come up with a "Why Should I" attitude? Others label her as idealistic and say she is making a mountain out of a mole hill. That is because she cares for these young girls . She is not making money out of this. She is not getting a cent from anyone for doing this. In fact, she is getting flamed for every single thing she comments on. Just because she has the guts to stand out and say something.

I understand alot of photographers -Pro or hobbyist feels like they are being affected by this article. We think that alot of what we know now is going to change as a results of her actions but sometimes change is good. We fear change as we fear it will affect the way we lead our lives as we know it.

In the heat of the moment, hurtful words are hurled around like missiles and I am sure everything can be settled in a cordial manner. I appreciate those who are giving suggestions to make the forums a more condusive place to post in. As for the moderaters, I thank you for the effort you are putting in on a daily basis to patrol and make this a safe environment for all and yes, it is hard to keep an eye on every little thing in the forums itself and if any rude or unacceptable comments have been passed, I apologize. I sincerely hope we can put our personal differences aside and pool all our energies into making Clubsnap the most popular forums not only in Singapore but beyond that.

In peace the hand has been extended.

Merry meet and merry part till we merry meet again.

which is why i'm refusing to take her request to bring things private when everything that's been said even the systematic dissection of the flaws to her suggestion ALL PERTAIN to bettering this place and bringing about the change she wants. don't tell me you've never been in a situation where u've bounced ideas off sounding boards and they helped you by pointing out the flaws in your thinking? She wanted to create an open dialogue with the community. Now that's she's gotten what she wanted even though its blown up in her face because she tried to facilitate it in the wrong way by being the town crier, she's trying to disengage herself and even not listen to other people's pov or comments. So WHY should we continue to give her any credence at all?

 

[designerwhere]

which is why i'm refusing to take her request to bring things private when everything that's been said even the systematic dissection of the flaws to her suggestion ALL PERTAIN to bettering this place and bringing about the change she wants. don't tell me you've never been in a situation where u've bounced ideas off sounding boards and they helped you by pointing out the flaws in your thinking? She wanted to create an open dialogue with the community. Now that's she's gotten what she wanted even though its blown up in her face because she tried to facilitate it in the wrong way by being the town crier, she's trying to disengage herself and even not listen to other people's pov or comments. So WHY should we continue to give her any credence at all?

Merry Meet SenorQuestion,

I am sure someone as great as yourself will be able to enlighten her despite her idealistic perceptions of the world.
Personally, I find your views most interesting and informative. Keep up the good work and have a wonderful day ahead.

Merry Meet and Merry part till we merry meet again.

 

[TheQuestion]

Merry Meet SenorQuestion,

I am sure someone as great as yourself will be able to enlighten her despite her idealistic perceptions of the world.
Personally, I find your views most interesting and informative. Keep up the good work and have a wonderful day ahead.

Merry Meet and Merry part till we merry meet again.

eh sorry i mean no offence but i can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. this being a written medium and all. please clarify. mean time i will close by adding that polarizing your intended audience is not a good way to try to engage them. you catch more flies with honey then with swords.

 

[hycool]

You see, organised shoots were first done to share the cost of the model (for those starting out). Then it moved into hiring Caucasian models, then young girls in bikini and then nudity.

You see, the whole point of organised shoots was to practice portrait photography, but it turned into a sleasy weekend hobby.

Not right.

Whether or not a shoot is themed "sleazy" really depends on the minds of photographers and their imaginations. Cant really generalize.. And I snap models often, but I get very upset when a friend says "still snapping pretty girls ah?" where yes, I choose the shoots I want to attend as I feel the models' looks and the theme suit what I want to create, and I always put in alot of effort in my post-processing as well to churn out something that I or the model can be proud of.

So far I am quite ok with how things are working out, as a participant in organized shoots advertised on CS. You pay what you get at times, but the true value of the shoot is sometimes the friends you make during shoots, sharing opinions and encounters, bringing CS members together, trying new techqiues and angles.

Probably very minority of photographers (I have not met one yet) will attend shoots for the sake of snapping perverted shots. Like what G-khoo says, the REAL danger lies with visitors and non-posters which download the pics for their own "pleasure". But then again, we cannot say, "look there are such people and thus we should abide the shoots to a certain guideline by CS" and then increasing the cost of shoots with an ideal environment, this wouldnt be fair to majority of the photographers here in clubsnap. We all know, money matters alot, and quality shoot time but at a much higher cost does not work well with everyone.

XMM models should also be aware that such distastful actions might happen and Organizers should warn them about it, and if they agree to the shoot, so be it.

Actually I was hoping to see more organizers pen share their thoughts about this issue, because maybe by that we can clear up some dark spots here and there rather than a big misunderstanding.

 

[CYRN]

Seriously, the aim here is to get ideas to better the forums, something constructive to make this a better place for all parties involved.

Instead,there is alot of unnecessary provocations so as to provoke a response from Averal and me. Instead of finding a solution, everyone is just contented with pointing fingers. Pointing out the flaws of her suggestions and say that she is doing all this to generate attention or challenging her to conduct a shoot of her own. When asked to contribute , some just come up with a "Why Should I" attitude? Others label her as idealistic and say she is making a mountain out of a mole hill. That is because she cares for these young girls . She is not making money out of this. She is not getting a cent from anyone for doing this. In fact, she is getting flamed for every single thing she comments on. Just because she has the guts to stand out and say something.

I understand alot of photographers -Pro or hobbyist feels like they are being affected by this article. We think that alot of what we know now is going to change as a results of her actions but sometimes change is good. We fear change as we fear it will affect the way we lead our lives as we know it.

In the heat of the moment, hurtful words are hurled around like missiles and I am sure everything can be settled in a cordial manner. I appreciate those who are giving suggestions to make the forums a more condusive place to post in. As for the moderaters, I thank you for the effort you are putting in on a daily basis to patrol and make this a safe environment for all and yes, it is hard to keep an eye on every little thing in the forums itself and if any rude or unacceptable comments have been passed, I apologize. I sincerely hope we can put our personal differences aside and pool all our energies into making Clubsnap the most popular forums not only in Singapore but beyond that.

In peace the hand has been extended.

Merry meet and merry part till we merry meet again.

And seriously, throwing a half-baked idea out in the wild and expects everyone to be sympathetic isn't very bright either.

Hanging on to her stand isn't called guts... it's called.. refusing to change her stand even after given all the feedback, be it constructive or not. Talk about change... change yourself/herself first.

I believe, the last was to come out with some guidelines for models... then lets focus on that and come out something concrete for the community to built upon.... so when we can expect to see the first draft posted?

 

[designerwhere]

eh sorry i mean no offence but i can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. this being a written medium and all. please clarify. mean time i will close by adding that polarizing your intended audience is not a good way to try to engage them. you catch more flies with honey then with swords.

Merry meet SenorQuestion,
No honeycoated words here . I come in peace and good intentions.
The fact that you have taken out of your busy schedule, to post and share your views is something I am grateful for.
All it takes is for me to withdraw my ego from the flame wars to realize the good intentions.
I bet you really love Clubsnap alot. Anyway, do come in soon with more comments and feedback, it is thru these means that we all learn and grow as human beings.
Wishing you a joyful day ahead yet again.
Merry meet and Merry part till we Merry meet again.

 

[CYRN]

Actually I was hoping to see more organizers pen share their thoughts about this issue, because maybe by that we can clear up some dark spots here and there rather than a big misunderstanding.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

but I dun see them actively posting here leh... tink they mode interested in organising shoots with as little as possible... so why should they want to at added with this burden?

The onus is actually on the models themselves to protect themselves.

 

[designerwhere]

And seriously, throwing a half-baked idea out in the wild and expects everyone to be sympathetic isn't very bright either.

Hanging on to her stand isn't called guts... it's called.. refusing to change her stand even after given all the feedback, be it constructive or not. Talk about change... change yourself/herself first.

I believe, the last was to come out with some guidelines for models... then lets focus on that and come out something concrete for the community to built upon.... so when we can expect to see the first draft posted?

Merry meet Cyrn,

I appreciate for your frank and to the point assessment of the situation. The initial idea is of course raw and needs fine-tuning. That is why your feedback is most valueable. I am sure with so many experts around, we can come up with something impressive. Thanking you once again for your good intentions.

As for the timeline needed to come up with a draft, it will depend on good souls like yourselves and of course feedback from the mods who will hopefully grace us with their presence. I see the good in your heart and thank you for it.

Gotta run now.... for those who have posted, will try to response when I have time and access to the internet. Gotta run some errands. Have to make the point clear in case ,there is any mistaken case of disengaging again.

Good day to all.

Merry meet and Merry part till we Merry meet again.

 

[CYRN]

All it takes is for me to withdraw my ego from the flame wars to realize the good intentions.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

And hopefully everyone follows your good example.

 

[Rangefinder_fan]

Averal, I think that you are still missing the point that has been consistently been raised. You cant force people who do not want to 'learn'. Its like how people buy high-end cameras but leave it in Auto mode. They could learn if they wanted to, but maybe all they want to do is to take photos of pleety girls, be they local, foreign, clothed or nude. And so what? They are members of this forum, with equal rights to do their own thing as you have.

If this is an affront to your sensibilities, then am afraid that there is little you can do about aside from vacating the relevant sections. This quest to educate and enlighten is all well and good, but what happens when the audience is not receptive or if your proposal is flawed? Also, please also consider that this forum is made up of a LOT of people with different interests and inclinations. You have yours and I'll have mine, and never the two shall meet but I dont give a fig if you stay out of my way. Likewise, I'll do try to repay the same courtesy.

With your dogmatic insistence on 'making this a better place' you fail to consider that perhaps 'better' is a personal take, and that perhaps others like it this way, or at least recognise that there are limits to what an open forum can achieve.

You see, organised shoots were first done to share the cost of the model (for those starting out). Then it moved into hiring Caucasian models, then young girls in bikini and then nudity.

You see, the whole point of organised shoots was to practice portrait photography, but it turned into a sleasy weekend hobby.

Well, that is why I think a mentor should step in to regulate these sessions, and lighting to be provided. However, many members feel it is not feasible due to added cost.

I am very open to suggestions on how to reinstill the learning aspect of photography through organised shoots. If you have something feasible that would work out do not hesitate to voice your views.

Other than that, please kindly PM me for any off topic discussions.

 

[CYRN]

Merry meet Cyrn,

I appreciate for your frank and to the point assessment of the situation. The initial idea is of course raw and needs fine-tuning. That is why your feedback is most valueable. I am sure with so many experts around, we can come up with something impressive. Thanking you once again for your good intentions.

As for the timeline needed to come up with a draft, it will depend on good souls like yourselves and of course feedback from the mods who will hopefully grace us with their presence. I see the good in your heart and thank you for it.

Gotta run now.... for those who have posted, will try to response when I have time and access to the internet. Gotta run some errands. Have to make the point clear in case ,there is any mistaken case of disengaging again.

Good day to all.

Merry meet and Merry part till we Merry meet again.

too much cool-aid liao. :sweat::sweat:

I tink the idea is for Averal to put up whatever she can think of first, she's already got the concept of what those guidelines are else why and what is she referring to in the TNP interview.

... then we, as a community, proceed from there.

 

[TheQuestion]

Merry meet SenorQuestion,
No honeycoated words here . I come in peace and good intentions.
The fact that you have taken out of your busy schedule, to post and share your views is something I am grateful for.
All it takes is for me to withdraw my ego from the flame wars to realize the good intentions.
I bet you really love Clubsnap alot. Anyway, do come in soon with more comments and feedback, it is thru these means that we all learn and grow as human beings.
Wishing you a joyful day ahead yet again.
Merry meet and Merry part till we Merry meet again.

that's a bet you'll lose. unless my words have been saying something i haven't :bsmilie: I don't really care much about this place and those who know me personally know that. but what i'm more concerned about is the black eye genuine SERIOUS photogs will get from the publicity.