Suggestion: Code of Conduct for Lingerine and Nude Organised Shoots

[TheQuestion]

Read carefully. I think you are getting the wrong idea.

no It's painfully obvious that you have from the start and not me. I'm just bringing reality and telling you that you're wrong, been wrong and are still wrong. your $ estimates dun even use the industry averages...this just reinforces my perception that you have zero credibility. btw where's that apology you owe the mods for your earlier remarks?

 

[AverRal]

Just how many "models" (sorry but I prefer to named them as "posers") wants a TFCD?? Typical "only consider TFCD if ideas are fresh blah blah blah" bullshits posted on EVERY self-declared-with-pte-ltd-experiences-posers' threads. Face it, just take a look at the service section and see how many similar threads asking for paid shoots.

Actually, there are models who do TFCDS with photographers with decent portfolios.

From the way the organised shoots are churning out portfolios for these photographers, it makes it very hard for models to want to work with them (no offense).

Most models want something different when they do TFCD, something that contributes to both the model's and photographer's portfolio. But many photographers do not see it that way because they don't seem to be concerned with their portfolio value (as it is a hobby), so they blame the models for charging. When in fact, the models are charging because in a way, they do not get value out of the exchange. There are also cases that models demand payment and the photos, that is pretty unreasonable as well. It goes both sides.

Lets stick back to the topic of organised shoots, we can talk about TFCDS another time.

 

[AverRal]

your $ estimates dun even use the industry averages...

Please contribute your estimates so we can have a better estimation of the fees incurred to organise the shoot.

I am speaking from the point of view a professionally conducted shoot, with a professional model, a professional photographer mentor, an organiser, and a studio.

There are of course, different estimates to this but what I have posted is very brief.

It will be very helpful if those who have industry experience to come forward to contribute their ideas.

 

[satan_18349]

And please educate those "posers" first. Nearly puke when I saw one who is only 18, but declared that she had FIVE years of experience and done about 60 photoshoots. Oh... she DO NOT do TFCD.

 

[AverRal]

And please educate those "posers" first. Nearly puke when I saw one who is only 18, but declared that she had FIVE years of experience and done about 60 photoshoots. Oh... she DO NOT do TFCD.

Yes, we are looking at that in the other thread, you can take a look there to discuss

 

[squall]

Just how many "models" (sorry but I prefer to named them as "posers") wants a TFCD?? Typical "only consider TFCD if ideas are fresh blah blah blah" bullshits posted on EVERY self-declared-with-pte-ltd-experiences-posers' threads.

Sorry my friend, have to disagree with you on your first part which implies that "models who say they will only do TFCDs for fresh ideas actually will not."

My humble personal experiences so far tend to suggest that given a novel theme and a purpose, almost 66% of the models approached have said yes to a TFCD. Granted 1/3 say no or dont reply their e-mails but that is hardly testament to the entire model community.

 

[TheQuestion]

Please contribute your estimates so we can have a better estimation of the fees incurred to organise the shoot.

I am speaking from the point of view a professionally conducted shoot, with a professional model, a professional photographer mentor, an organiser, and a studio.

There are of course, different estimates to this but what I have posted is very brief.

It will be very helpful if those who have industry experience to come forward to contribute their ideas.

why should i? if u want some semblance of credibility go and find out the proper #s yourself. that would not just help repairing your image here but also help build some bridges with the very people u've been trying to rally but ended off pissing off with your half baked arguments. fyi any pro model worth her salt is not gonna agree to tfcd for a workshop. too many wild cards where u dunnoe if the students are gonna produce any good shots at all. Students want a good op to learn they have to not just pay for the photog but the model who they will be working with during the session. and that setting is sure as hell no long enuff for the teacher to give her good shots that she can use either. not to mention the fact of the opportunity cost to not just the model but the pro teaching the workshop as well. You pay peanuts u get monkeys. Its ironic. you posted before espousing that models shouldn't lower their value by working for low price or free. and here you are contradicting yourself. YET AGAIN! So once again Averal your logic = FAIL.

 

[TheQuestion]

Sorry my friend, have to disagree with you on your first part which implies that "models who say they will only do TFCDs for fresh ideas actually will not."

My humble personal experiences so far tend to suggest that given a novel theme and a purpose, almost 66% of the models approached have said yes to a TFCD. Granted 1/3 say no or dont reply their e-mails but that is hardly testament to the entire model community.

correct and well said. but the novel concept or the approaching photog better be good to make it worth the model's while. but that is for a test or tf session not a workshop.

 

[TheQuestion]

averal forgot to add earlier u seem to forget that learning workshops are also places where peopel can learn not just lighting and techniques but things such as posing the model and proper etiquette and interaction with a model as well. Someone who has no experience or training at all is not gonna be able to pose properly and thus the workshop becomes a waste of time.

 

[night86mare]

Yes, we are looking at that in the other thread, you can take a look there to discuss

you seem to be advocating the solution to the problem to be

converting every single photoshoot on cs into a workshop

or did i read that wrong

 

[TheQuestion]

you seem to be advocating the solution to the problem to be

converting every single photoshoot on cs into a workshop

or did i read that wrong

more importantly nightmare. Do you think what she's advocating to be feasible?

 

[AverRal]

averal forgot to add earlier u seem to forget that learning workshops are also places where peopel can learn not just lighting and techniques but things such as posing the model and proper etiquette and interaction with a model as well. Someone who has no experience or training at all is not gonna be able to pose properly and thus the workshop becomes a waste of time.

That is why a professional model has to be engaged. She should have a portfolio as well to show her works. There are models out there who have been trained and certified but they have very few assignments (sadly). And yes, there are models who are willing to be shot by students contradictory to what you think. They don't have to be drop dead gorgeous.They just need a personality.

 

[TheQuestion]

That is why a professional model has to be engaged. She should have a portfolio as well to show her works. There are models out there who have been trained and certified but they have very few assignments (sadly). And yes, there are models who are willing to be shot by students contradictory to what you think. They don't have to be drop dead gorgeous.They just need a personality.

did i say they have to be goregous? no i said they have to be pros. once again selective reading strikes. professional models are agency caliber ones. not people who think they are models just coz they put themselves in front of a camera lens.you also seem to forget that personality is only one component on what makes a model work.

 

[TheQuestion]

That is why a professional model has to be engaged. She should have a portfolio as well to show her works. There are models out there who have been trained and certified but they have very few assignments (sadly). And yes, there are models who are willing to be shot by students contradictory to what you think. They don't have to be drop dead gorgeous.They just need a personality.

also note the ones who are willing to be shot are mostly doing it for the pay check not for tf. you seem to think that every pro model will do tf FOR students. wake up and smell the coffee. I said it b4 and i say it again. That is not gonna happen.

 

[AverRal]

did i say they have to be goregous? no i said they have to be pros. once again selective reading strikes. professional models are agency caliber ones.

Yes I do know a few of these models, they are usually still schooling but they have been trained and stuff, just that the modelling industry is a tough one, new faces come out all the time. The old ones don't mind other jobs.

 

[TheQuestion]

Yes I do know a few of these models, they are usually still schooling but they have been trained and stuff, just that the modelling industry is a tough one, new faces come out all the time. The old ones don't mind other jobs.

then why don't u put ur money where ur mouth is and put together a workshop like someone else challenged ur earlier. Heck you can have your bf teach it to lower costs. I'm sure that would restore some credibility to your name as well as silence ur detractors.

 

[jlkk76]

then why don't u put ur money where ur mouth is and put together a workshop like someone else challenged ur earlier. Heck you can have your bf teach it to lower costs. I'm sure that would restore some credibility to your name as well as silence ur detractors.

yup.....i would love to see how u do it wor....

 

[squall]

That is why a professional model has to be engaged. She should have a portfolio as well to show her works.

In this logic lies the foundation for some of the criticism at your costing numbers. I accept there is no dictionary definition of experienced professional mods but taking examples of Eadon, Celestina and even your advertised rates, they cant be booked for 50/hr for a lingerie shoot......at least I cant get them at that rate.....:bsmilie:.......not to say they are not amenable to TFCDs but I dont think TFCD is right for a group lingerie shoot.

 

[tjhan]

Averal is so typically Singaporean, not in a bad way though. Here are some of the attributes of typical Singaporeans:

1. They want the government/the "authorities" to step in and solve problems.
2. They see a small/insignificant issue that affects them negatively as some sort of end-of-the-world scale Ragnarok. That relates to point 1, which the government must solve of course.
3. They strongly believe they are moral and just, while others are ugly Singaporeans.

Look around you, typical Singaporeans all around, in the news, on local forums including this one, ew cavemen-breeding Stomp, Hardwarezone etc.

I see this XMM fiasco as an inevitable trend, which is the result of a) low slr pricing, b) easy money for the girls. In Japan and Taiwan, we even have enjou kousai, which is rather more uncommon here and yet, a small issue like whether girls have sexy photos taken of them generate such a hullabaloo.

Even flipfreak, the supposed champion Clubsnapper for XMM shoots tastefully done, would have his works panned by self-righteous TNP reporters to generate newsheadlines. Only to enjoy them in private of course.

I don't see the problem actually. If said models wish to earn money easily by just sitting around, then they have to bear the occapational hazards and learn how to defend themselves. If not, go work at McDonalds or something like the vast majority of your peers. If people think XMM photography is only found in Singapore and CS, then they are plain ignorant. It is far far more prevalent in the land of the rising sun, HK, Taiwan, China, and all the other developed countries, where men have money and young girls want more Pradas.

And finally, the new paper has all these funky ads for massage services and spas at the back. I bet those are real clean.

 

[vince123123]

I can't agree more - which is why people have asked her to try organising a shoot and she will realise it is not as easy.

Maybe S$50/hr is after deducting the model mentor's fees so the model herself gets quite little. Have to mah, since noob model, need to make quality shoot hahaha

fyi u want quality professional model dun expect to pay 50 per hour. that's a FACT. and i sure as hell am not gonna pay for someone who has no real experience but thinks that they are a real model. your estimates i can tell u for a fact are WAY OFF.