[ closed ] Olympus Announces its latest Micro4/3 camera and lenses - OM-D
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cannedpineapples
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I don't want to bash anyone (this forum has a sometimes-overly-sensitive censorship policy...). Certainly not DSLRs. So I hope the powers that be don't take this the wrong way.
Rather, there is great research done about disruptive innovation. This has happened in multiple industries. (CDs vs Vinyl, big hard drives vs portable ones, etc). But the one that everybody knows is the laptop. Desktops remain more powerful, and for many gamers (as well as for corporate use), a necessity. But the entire consumer market now buys only laptops. That's what happens when you have a key advantage in one area (size + weight, and portability in general) and your performance gets 'good enough' that people don't care about the additional benefits that moving to a desktop can bring.
I for one believe that DSLRs will always be better. But, in the case of the desktop vs the laptop, there comes a time when something is 'good-enough' performance wise, and the size benefits then help it win the war...
PS, thanks for the analysis on physical vs electronic components. Very educational.
I think it would be the end of DSLRs but just the market has to adjust to new innovative disruptions and things will find a new equilibrium, at least in the medium term.
A couple of examples i can think about is:
Internet VS Radio: They said internet would herald the end of radio, doesnt seem to be the case.
CD VS Vinyl: People are still longing for the old analouge sound. Just like how pple like retro looking cameras now.
A couple of examples i can think about is:
Internet VS Radio: They said internet would herald the end of radio, doesnt seem to be the case.
CD VS Vinyl: People are still longing for the old analouge sound. Just like how pple like retro looking cameras now.
I think there are many good arguments put forth but if you look at the history of the camera, before the Digital SLR, was the film SLR. SLR is single lens reflex ie one mirror. Before SLR, there was the TLR. TLR stands for twin lens reflex. That means that there is two mirrors. One for the viewfinder, and one for the film capture. This also means that TLR has also 2 lenses. So if you look at history, we started with 2 mirror boxes. Now there is one mirror box. TLRs are now considered antique or collector's items. People dun really use it routinely and none is being manufactured now by any of the major camera makers. Now, we have cameras without any mirrors at all. The MILC or EVIL. In the future, there is a possibility that DSLR will no longer be in production and be replaced by mirrorless cameras.
As to whether DSLR will stay simply to support big and long zooms, there is absolutely nothing, in terms of engineering, to stop you from manufacturing a large sized mirrorless digital camera to balance the lens out. The only thing stopping Nikon or Canon right now from removing the mirror from their pro DSLRs now is economics. In fact, Pentax has just done something like this. They have produced their K1, a chunky MILC that can take all of the Pentax mount lenses. DSLRs, may eventually evolve into something like the Pentax K1 but with a high performance EVF.
As to whether DSLR will stay simply to support big and long zooms, there is absolutely nothing, in terms of engineering, to stop you from manufacturing a large sized mirrorless digital camera to balance the lens out. The only thing stopping Nikon or Canon right now from removing the mirror from their pro DSLRs now is economics. In fact, Pentax has just done something like this. They have produced their K1, a chunky MILC that can take all of the Pentax mount lenses. DSLRs, may eventually evolve into something like the Pentax K1 but with a high performance EVF.
vainqueur
Senior Member
wonglp said:I'm amateur too, switched to Pen fully 2 years ago from E dslr with 14-54, 50/2, 7-0-300 with 70% with 14-54 on my camera since '07. m43 lenses were limited then and good lenses on 43 are mostly PDAF, functionality on pen was lacking behind E system.
But I found a new joy in photography, portability, EVF and adapting manual prime lenses, suddenly some of problems are no longer an issue. With the portability, I can bring a few more primes than I had with 43 dslr. The 43 lenses are great but after switching to Pen, I started learning and enjoying primes and the I prefer the results I get from primes. I dun use zooms except for 9-18, 100-300 these days. And 95% of my pictures are from primes now. And now with more primes on m43 range, i find myself using lesser manual lenses and just rely on the AF, i put them on my gxr instead for 1.5x crop. The IQ and portability from 12mm, 20mm, 25mm, 45mm are really what defines the m43 today, and glad I made the switch early to appreciate primes today. The rest of other mirrorless camps are still behind in lens range, except maybe pentax, but it's gonna be a heavier & bulkier system, and i have no pentax lenses.
Just sharing
I am even younger than you guys, picked up photography only 1 1/2 years ago, although I don't see how bigger body means better photos. I always believed that I define my own style, not the camera. So, I find m43 enough for me, even if I don't get omd, my epl1 can still do wonders for me but the omd can definitely help me, more features and better stuff. These 1 1/2 years, had my fair share of compliment and criticism which I treated as constructive comment. Thanks to a good friend and the kind community of m43 at cs, I am able to enjoy what I love that is photography.
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cannedpineapples
New Member
Thanks for the charts. Interesting, but they're not charts I would even dare to show at work. It's now Feb 2012, and the chart cuts off at Aug 2011? Hmm....
Besides, as Thom Hogan notes, is Nikon V1/J1 F-mount or mirrorless? Will the new Pentax be K-mount or mirrorless?
Besides, as Thom Hogan notes, is Nikon V1/J1 F-mount or mirrorless? Will the new Pentax be K-mount or mirrorless?
People, just remember that this is not a zero-sum game, i.e. if ILCs are good means SLRs are bad and vice versa.
They all have their proponents and opponents - I see it as choice; but again it does not mean if my choice is different from yours that either choice is better.
They all have their proponents and opponents - I see it as choice; but again it does not mean if my choice is different from yours that either choice is better.
cannedpineapples
New Member
The question is, how do you define the market. For the past few years, the CAMERA market has been a huge negative, as people basically stop buying compact cameras. This may even lead to increased DSLR sales although overall camera sales fall (don't know, the numbers above only show market share). The new upgrade path may be phone -> DSLR, not no camera -> compact camera -> DSLR. So DSLR sales may have improved, and DSLR sales definitely gained market share within the whole camera market (stealing it from compact cameras).
These charts above are interesting because they are now questioning the upgrade path.
1) For those who start out with phones, find that they are into photography, and then looking to upgrade: are we getting phone -> mirrorless instead of phone -> DSLR?
2) For those who have already used DSLR, are we also beginning to see DSLR -> Mirrorless?
3) Finally, are mirrorless cameras now beginning to grow the market for cameras again, because people think that their size is compact enough, yet quality good enough, to warrant a upgrade from using camera-phones only?
The first two scenarios are 'zero-sum' improvements, with mirrorless taking market share from DSLR.The third question is the key question. If the answer is yes, that mirrorless is growing the market for cameras, then the gain in the mirrorless market is definitely not zero sum.
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If you are trying to show increasing market share of mirrorless, the V1/J1 should be counted as mirrorless.
Ok seriously, I consider V1/J1 as mirrorless.
Well, it many not be so. Take me for example, if there were no mirrorless, I would probably just have 1-2 DSLRs and that's it. But with mirrorless, I now have 3-4 MILCs, and maybe sell 1 of my lower end DSLRs. So, its not a fixed pie. MILCs themselves, do create a demand and not necessarily at the expense of DSLRs as many of you think. So, the pie may actually increase in size.
True, different strokes for different folks. Now having compact MILCs around, there are more choices. And people indeed can approach MILCs through different pathways. I have frens that move from iphone to MILCs, from compact PnS to MILCs. I for one is a DSLR that has moved to MILCs, but I still keep the DSLR because there WILL be 5% of the time which I will need a DSLR. With the OM-D this need may decrease to 1% now, because the OM-D is weather proof. And there are people who use DSLRs and have MILCs as a backup camera. So in a way, the market share may actually be growing and its not a zero sum game. There of course could be erosion from the DSLR market and from the PnS market. Of course, the charts do not show absolute numbers. And that is not the point of the charts anyway. They are just meant to show the MILCs are a viable and growing business strategy. This is really great news for Olympus because if you do look at the chart, the 4/3 market was basically going into flatline and like it or not, m4/3 is invigorating the company now.
Anthony Lee
Senior Member
Please gentlemen, let's restrict our discussion to the new OMD and its merits. What I like to see in the next few weeks is more hands-on tests and photos. I love the design but it has to prove itself also.
ed9119, will you be getting a production model for testing shortly?
ed9119, will you be getting a production model for testing shortly?
cannedpineapples
New Member
These are topics about photography (not OT). These are not posts bashing any company/ trying to stir trouble/ flame things up. These are merely a discussion- (very useful to newbies like myself, by the way) on where photography is headed. I don't see how this violates the terms of use of Clubsnap, nor is it irrelevant to the topic at hand- big, exciting changes are sweeping the camera industry, and we would like to discuss what this means for the industry. On a photography forum. This is exactly a discussion of "the new OMD and its merits"...
But with respect to your question, I think every regional office is waiting for Oly Japan to update to firmware 1.0 (not 0.9) before they can review it. As Robin Wong wrote:
"I myself cannot wait to see how well the camera fares, but that will have to wait. Even Olympus Malaysia will have to wait for Olympus Japan to release their latest firmware update on the E-M5 before it can be used for any official review or testing."
Evilmerlin
Senior Member
Wow! Olympus UK offering the grip for FREE to all those that pre-ordered the OM-D (Who is seriously going to call this the E-M5?)!! I wonder if Olympus Singapore can also do such an offer....
Olympus offers free grip with OM-D
Olympus offers free grip with OM-D
Anthony Lee said:
We are not off topic here if u read the title of the thread. In addition those slides were used by olympus in their OM-D presentations. If u want to discuss merits, we are in fact discussing its and m4/3 merits on the market.
Also, the camera is not here yet. At least for a couple of weeks. Wat are u going to do in the meantime? You can either keep quiet or participate in the discussion. Since there is interest, many of us choose to participate and contribute.
This forum has not seen so much activity since microcosm left. OM-D has indeed generated much interest and its good for the forum and olympus users.
cannedpineapples
New Member
WOW! Sign me up!
Evilmerlin
Senior Member
Camera stuff tends to be a little more expensive in the UK due to currency but still...FREE grip!
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