Yuki

[GaoZi]

hi virgo,

RE: "and condemn constructive ones"

i think it's fair to be clear about the ones that narloke "condemned"

for eg, one that ask how dare he post such a pic,

for eg, one that assumed "No point giving criticisms to those who does not appreciate how to learn to make their pictures better." becos narloke reacted to DP's 3 liner 1st post.

for eg, one who accidentally compared his model to a dinosaur.

where is the constructivism? [to be fair, some went on to give technical critiques:thumbsup: ]

AND then, many of the posts later on assumed that he only wanted good comments. many of narloke's later replies were in retaliation to people to included in their comments that narloke only want to get good comments:
eg if you want to get good comments, dun post here;
just admit it;
why didn't you acknowledge them?

if narloke isn't a frequent poster in cs forums,
his retaliatory replies are IMHO perfectly natural replies, we are all capable of replying in this way when someone "pokes" a little beyond comfort in varying situations.

when comments were negative but framed neutrally, narloke did seem to accept them. there are quite a few posts in the earlier threads that serve as proof.

and hey, on a happy note, narloke does have some better pictures of yuki at another thread! there's a more positive climate there!

 

[hobbit6003]

Therefore i think we can't really criticizing the photo if it hurt our eyes or it don't meet our standard. I personally don't like this photo like i don't like some kind of music but i don't have the right to criticize about that, if i criticize about that ,it's like i criticize other people just because they see and feel things different with me,i don't have the right to do that.

Of course we all got the right to criticize! And we also have as much right to accept or reject those criticism.

However, I think we should not go overboard and be impolite. Harsh comments are ok to me, but it should also be constructive.

Then again, what constitutes a constructive harsh comments, and one that's impolite and/or non-constructive? Some of us may argue that it is subjective, it is like " I think I was not harsh, but you think so , and that's your problem"

Well, I beg to differ from the above statement I just made. If many people think that it is indeed harsh and impolite, it is most likely to be so. We're communal living creatures, so we do probably have to abide by certain rules, attitude and culture of a society right?

On a similar note, if majority of the people thinks that the pics is not good, then it is most likely to be true. Honestly, hands to our hearts, how many of us actually think that the pic posted here is not good or even poor?

TS may say that he doesn't care what others think of his pics, as long as he likes it, it is ok. Why then, may I ask, post a pic like that here and risk brickbats?

Posting a pic like tat in a dedicated photography forum like CS, we should know what we are getting ourselves into.

Kenny

 

[narloke]

hi virgo,

RE: "and condemn constructive ones"

i think it's fair to be clear about the ones that narloke "condemned"

for eg, one that ask how dare he post such a pic,

for eg, one that assumed "No point giving criticisms to those who does not appreciate how to learn to make their pictures better." becos narloke reacted to DP's 3 liner 1st post.

for eg, one who accidentally compared his model to a dinosaur.

where is the constructivism? [to be fair, some went on to give technical critiques:thumbsup: ]

AND then, many of the posts later on assumed that he only wanted good comments. many of narloke's later replies were in retaliation to people to included in their comments that narloke only want to get good comments:
eg if you want to get good comments, dun post here;
just admit it;
why didn't you acknowledge them?

if narloke isn't a frequent poster in cs forums,
his retaliatory replies are IMHO perfectly natural replies, we are all capable of replying in this way when someone "pokes" a little beyond comfort in varying situations.

when comments were negative but framed neutrally, narloke did seem to accept them. there are quite a few posts in the earlier threads that serve as proof.

and hey, on a happy note, narloke does have some better pictures of yuki at another thread! there's a more positive climate there!

So as i said, truth is truth, someday someone will reveal it from the rant or imagination that are not logical. My great thanks

 

[narloke]

Of course we all got the right to criticize! And we also have as much right to accept or reject those criticism.

However, I think we should not go overboard and be impolite. Harsh comments are ok to me, but it should also be constructive.

Then again, what constitutes a constructive harsh comments, and one that's impolite and/or non-constructive? Some of us may argue that it is subjective, it is like " I think I was not harsh, but you think so , and that's your problem"

Well, I beg to differ from the above statement I just made. If many people think that it is indeed harsh and impolite, it is most likely to be so. We're communal living creatures, so we do probably have to abide by certain rules, attitude and culture of a society right?

On a similar note, if majority of the people thinks that the pics is not good, then it is most likely to be true. Honestly, hands to our hearts, how many of us actually think that the pic posted here is not good or even poor?

TS may say that he doesn't care what others think of his pics, as long as he likes it, it is ok. Why then, may I ask, post a pic like that here and risk brickbats?

Posting a pic like tat in a dedicated photography forum like CS, we should know what we are getting ourselves into.

Kenny

I think Gaozi has answered your questions clearly, i didn't say i don't care any of the comments, but selectively choose those that are constructive if you've really read carefully through the whole thread

 

[benedium]

true, these images are how we perceive to be the best in terms of our own definition, skills and otherwise.

if you have looked over the 10x pages, u notice that those who have commented on the pics are pretty genuine that the pics need improvement, however, the TS chose to not heed, thats nothing we could do, then on came another group to support TS (all of a sudden) as they have starts to bash those who is giving their comments. I mean... put everything aside... how would you feel about this pic, without reading the 10x pages, without knowing the TS, without any prejudice... search within yourself, find the truth.

i wrote how i felt. thats all that i have to say... i dun understand this part actually...

then

Aiyo. Why so hard for you to understand I am not supporting anyone?
I am only attacking those who STARTED OFF arrogantly. You could say I'm not happy to see people say things like "Your picture sucks!" and put other photographers down, with the lousy excuse that it helps others improve. They can give criticisms without attitude right?

I see already buay song, geddit? Haven't you ever felt compassion for those who are less fortunate or disadvantaged or bullied? Of course one might profit more from 'supporting' those who already are egotistical, arrogant, rich and whatnot lah!
I'm not a saint or whatever. I am just doing what my gut feeling tells me to.
I'm sure you have such feelings sometimes too right?
So don't tell me you don't understand why I even started to attack this kind of critics?

 

[narloke]

Aiyo. Why so hard for you to understand I am not supporting anyone?
I am only attacking those who STARTED OFF arrogantly. You could say I'm not happy to see people say things like "Your picture sucks!" and put other photographers down, with the lousy excuse that it helps others improve. They can give criticisms without attitude right?

I see already buay song, geddit? Haven't you ever felt compassion for those who are less fortunate or disadvantaged or bullied? Of course one might profit more from 'supporting' those who already are egotistical, arrogant, rich and whatnot lah!
I'm not a saint or whatever. I am just doing what my gut feeling tells me to.
I'm sure you have such feelings sometimes too right?
So don't tell me you don't understand why I even started to attack this kind of critics?

Great courage needed to sing a different song from the mainstream here though i did think you r a little over-react when saying those cursing words to DCA:embrass:

 

[benedium]

Great courage needed to sing a different song from the mainstream here though i did think you r a little over-react when saying those cursing words to DCA:embrass:

I only get so agitated cos I could sense that his ego was building walls around him. He refused to understand my intentions. There is no overreaction in war.
If someone shoot at you with ill intent, you have every right to react emotionally and without inhibition. It's different if you are drunk and someone slaps you to wake you up. It's all about intention.

 

[hobbit6003]

I think Gaozi has answered your questions clearly, i didn't say i don't care any of the comments, but selectively choose those that are constructive if you've really read carefully through the whole thread

Noted.

Kenny

 

[Canonised]

I only get so agitated cos I could sense that his ego was building walls around him. He refused to understand my intentions. There is no overreaction in war.
If someone shoot at you with ill intent, you have every right to react emotionally and without inhibition. It's different if you are drunk and someone slaps you to wake you up. It's all about intention.

this is what happen when you had too much of a drink ....:bsmilie: and you forgot that this is a public place. :think:
On a personal note, i dont think you owe him any apology coz he is juz as rude, but I think you may owe his father, mother or anyone who was not involved here an apology for your cursing ..:dunno:

 

[narloke]

I only get so agitated cos I could sense that his ego was building walls around him. He refused to understand my intentions. There is no overreaction in war.
If someone shoot at you with ill intent, you have every right to react emotionally and without inhibition. It's different if you are drunk and someone slaps you to wake you up. It's all about intention.

different ppl always have different ideas, but if you really observe carefully in the real world, war or violence can never conquer others ( i mean the real conquer not occuapation) while only reasoning and objective explanation may do. Once again as i said, i repect your courage to pinpoint the unhealthy atomosphere and appreciate your help very much, but i keep my stand when talking about some of the ways you delivered your message by.

 

[CreaXion]

i'm not trying to be mean here... but my 1st post, which part was being sarcastic?

each line by itself is a question for him to reflect... its based on much thinking without any prejudice that i think is most appropriate for him to understand, if he had asked himself these questions, he would not have made a mistake like these... choosing not to do self reflection and self questioning on the errors formed is purely his problem.

before every picture that he post, he should ask himself, should he post this pic or not, if he was to post, why should he post, is this pic unique and is it a piece of art? or am i not taking a nice pic, and i need some guidance... he should formulate questions before his every decision... then he will be a thinking photographer, instead of blindly pressing the shutter...

Well done Del_Ctrino. Was waiting for you to say this. I fully agreed that his approach to let the TS think through what he was doing is great. Well Done!

 

[CreaXion]

different ppl always have different ideas, but if you really observe carefully in the real world, war or violence can never conquer others ( i mean the real conquer not occuapation) while only reasoning and objective explanation may do. Once again as i said, i repect your courage to pinpoint the unhealthy atomosphere and appreciate your help very much, but i keep my stand when talking about some of the ways you delivered your message by.

In an open forum like this, there are bound to have different type of pp with diff styles. Your pics really sux and the manner on why it sux is already in the first post. DP and some others may be harsh but look beyond their delivery.

My personal opinion reading thru your posts is that you reject truths due to method of delivery and u failed to acknowledged many things posted here. Hence the repercussions. U have the rt to keep and post but they also have the rt to comment unless you practise like one guy in one of the subforums who stated C&C is not necessary for fear of criticisms.

 

[narloke]

In an open forum like this, there are bound to have different type of pp with diff styles. Your pics really sux and the manner on why it sux is already in the first post. DP and some others may be harsh but look beyond their delivery.

My personal opinion reading thru your posts is that you reject truths due to method of delivery and u failed to acknowledged many things posted here. Hence the repercussions. U have the rt to keep and post but they also have the rt to comment unless you practise like one guy in one of the subforums who stated C&C is not necessary for fear of criticisms.

Wah biang... this come back to the original topic again. You have the right to critque, and i have the right not to accept. What you think sux could not force others to thinks so.There's nothing much i can say if you still like to force me to accept your opinion.:nono:

 

[student]

i dun understand this part actually...

then...........

DCA, I do not think that you are a malignant bloke, and I will try to clarify what you do not understand regarding what I wrote.

I can understand your inability to understand this "@#@*&s!!!!!!"

This is a word which I do not want to spell out for fear of getting an unnecessary infraction;p . This word summarised by reaction to the comments made in this thread before me.

Why did I write this? Right from the beginning, starting with yours, and with people subsequently joining in to ridicule Narloke, if is inevitable that you guys had put Narloke into a negative frame of mind. In substance, your questions are not inappropriate, but the deliverance and thought given to it (ie the deliverance) is sure to get a negative response. And I do not think it is your intention to get a negative response. But it will. And hence, your intention to help will fail. Therefore the purpose of giving a "critique" will not succeed. Maybe not your post per se, but with the rest joining in (in the manner of your "Y"), mocking in, the end result is assured. Therefore I wrote "@#@*&s!!!!!"

Now tell me exactly what in the second quote you do not understand. I will try to clarify.

 

[student]

#1

It is the fool who thinks that only substance matters...and manner of delivery does not matter.

Was it yesterday or the day before when the Straits Time published an article about aggrieved patients and doctors get to talk things over? And was it not reported, correctly, that often the problems are often what the aggrieved patients perceived (rightly or wrongly) as arrogant attitudes of the attending doctors?

There was so much talk about bad salesperson. You approach a salesperson for something, and the sales person tells you, over there lah! Go find it! Was the substance wrong? Did she give you wrong information? Would you just ignore the deliverance of the sales person and quietly walk over to search for the item?

You were in a restaurant, or a hawker centre. Well it does not matter, does it? The waiter brought what you ordered, and plonked it down on the table so much so that the food almost spilled on your brand new shirt and trousers. That is OK? Just continue to enjoy your food?

There is a person here here who champions the notion that I will tell you what you need to know, and I will tell you in the most sh1tty manner I chose to do it, and I do not care a sh1t how you feel about how I tell you. Just take it or leave it! If I am not mistaken, this person is in marketing. Maybe this person is really consistent in his real life.

But would this be good marketing stategy?

How you market is not important? Just look beyond the delivery?

#2

It is also the fool who accepts criticisms without shifting the quality and validity of the criticisms.

You mean that just because someone says something, it is God's truth? That is the end of listening to criticisms?

Listening is important. But there are a lot of nonsense out there, including critiques.

Only id1ots are unselective.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

You mean someone wrote that to you?
i dun noe abt the writer's real message, but as far as i m concerned, i would type the same if i want to call that someone SCUMBAG .... :sweatsm:
hope this will help you to understand this part.

thanks for your explanation... since you are a psychic to know what everybody is thinking... maybe u could say student is refering to the TS?

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Aiyo. Why so hard for you to understand I am not supporting anyone?
I am only attacking those who STARTED OFF arrogantly. You could say I'm not happy to see people say things like "Your picture sucks!" and put other photographers down, with the lousy excuse that it helps others improve. They can give criticisms without attitude right?

I see already buay song, geddit? Haven't you ever felt compassion for those who are less fortunate or disadvantaged or bullied? Of course one might profit more from 'supporting' those who already are egotistical, arrogant, rich and whatnot lah!
I'm not a saint or whatever. I am just doing what my gut feeling tells me to.
I'm sure you have such feelings sometimes too right?
So don't tell me you don't understand why I even started to attack this kind of critics?

actually, i dun even know u attack me for wat... lets put aside everything, u see the 2nd post... someone sent me pm say i was harsh to him, so i tone down, how? if i say the pic have this, have that, how come the model look like this like that... then i kena shot again... so i rephrase, y dun i ask the TS, how does he feel about this part, maybe if without those others go treat it like some jokes, the TS might not feel defensive... cos every picture is how we feel, i feel that this part is not good, i ask him how does he feel about this part, if he tells me something i have overlooked, maybe we could learn together... thats what i call forum spirit, we learn together. We gain some today, we share them tomorrow...

 

[CreaXion]

#1

It is the fool who thinks that only substance matters...and manner of delivery does not matter.

Was it yesterday or the day before when the Straits Time published an article about aggrieved patients and doctors get to talk things over? And was it not reported, correctly, that often the problems are often what the aggrieved patients perceived (rightly or wrongly) as arrogant attitudes of the attending doctors?

There was so much talk about bad salesperson. You approach a salesperson for something, and the sales person tells you, over there lah! Go find it! Was the substance wrong? Did she give you wrong information? Would you just ignore the deliverance of the sales person and quietly walk over to search for the item?

You were in a restaurant, or a hawker centre. Well it does not matter, does it? The waiter brought what you ordered, and plonked it down on the table so much so that the food almost spilled on your brand new shirt and trousers. That is OK? Just continue to enjoy your food?

There is a person here here who champions the notion that I will tell you what you need to know, and I will tell you in the most sh1tty manner I chose to do it, and I do not care a sh1t how you feel about how I tell you. Just take it or leave it! If I am not mistaken, this person is in marketing. Maybe this person is really consistent in his real life.

But would this be good marketing stategy?

How you market is not important? Just look beyond the delivery?

#2

It is also the fool who accepts criticisms without shifting the quality and validity of the criticisms.

You mean that just because someone says something, it is God's truth? That is the end of listening to criticisms?

Listening is important. But there are a lot of nonsense out there, including critiques.

Only id1ots are unselective.

Student, my personal opinion of u is that u always jump to conclusions abt certain things. Now a few clarifications.

In the real world where I work and especially when I am in a managerial position, method of delivery becomes impt. Method of delivery differs from person to person. It can be harsh, soft, etc, etc when coming to criticisms. If the office practises an open culture, harsh criticisms is ok cause the environment is safe and u know that the deliverer meant good. I practise diff methods of delivery as a manager and leader. Depends from person to person really.

To TS, I am not asking you to accept all the pts made. Be selective but dun reject all the pts made. How fast u developed is dependent a lot on your own reflection of the pts made. My person opinion when I first saw the pics was that the pics sux. My question to you is did you first question yourself when pp gave criticisms on why the pics sux? Reflect and sieve thru the comments. I believe it will really help.

 

[saline009]

More freakshow from the networms. Made my pimple bursts. LOL

 

[saline009]

Wonder why local photography is in the doldrums? Come on down to the freakshow forum!