question: any light dlsr for female/beginner?

[rhino123]

If you are going to read reviews over the internet it is worthwhile seeking out reputable websites.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samsungnx10/page18.asp
http://www.lenstip.com/224.11-Lens_review-Samsung_NX_30_mm_f_2.0_Summary.html

And where did the two websites actually stated that the 30mm f2 lens is better than the rest of the prime lens offering by Sony, Panasonic and Olympus?

Plus, note that it is you who pointed out that the Samsung 30mm f2 lens is heralded to be better or sharper than the other offering by Sony, Panasonic and Olympus. The question is... heralded by who? The two websites that you brought out didn't show anything of that nature.

The website that I have read, did do a comparism between them. And the result is that Sony had a better lens here.

Next... the website that I am pointed to also noted that Olympus/ Panasonic had a larger lenses selection. Sony has the fewest in this department.

However I note that Sony NEX can use an adapter to allow the NEX to use Alpha lens too... so the selection can be quite large. I doubt Samsung has this ability.

 

[Shahmatt]

And where did the two websites actually stated that the 30mm f2 lens is better than the rest of the prime lens offering by Sony, Panasonic and Olympus?

Plus, note that it is you who pointed out that the Samsung 30mm f2 lens is heralded to be better or sharper than the other offering by Sony, Panasonic and Olympus. The question is... heralded by who? The two websites that you brought out didn't show anything of that nature.

The website that I have read, did do a comparison between them. And the result is that Sony had a better lens here.

Next... the website that I am pointed to also noted that Olympus/ Panasonic had a larger lenses selection. Sony has the fewest in this department.

However I note that Sony NEX can use an adapter to allow the NEX to use Alpha lens too... so the selection can be quite large. I doubt Samsung has this ability.

With all due respect, a little careful reading will yield you a lot of results.

The dpreview website I have posted says that the 30mm results are similar to the Panasonic 20mm/F1.7, but does not rely on software correction to get there. Therefore it is implied that the optical quality of the 30mm is superior.

Comparing with the Sony NEX 16mm:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/page8.asp

Please look at the sharpness numbers compared to the NX30mm at all apertures. The 30mm shows consistent sharpness, on the MTF-50 test, of slightly less than 1500. The 16mm is on the other hand only sharp right in the center, but loses this quickly towards the edges (corner sharpness averages between 750 to 1125, which is poor). The 30mm also has almost no chromatic aberration - which is quite rare for a kit lens.

Furthermore, I think the 16mm is not a good primary kit lens to have. It is too wide for normal practical use or street shooting. i.e. unless you are shooting landscapes, room interiors or architectures all the time. I think this is discussed in the dpreview link I posted up also.

Regarding adapters, Samsung have their own native adapters for the K mount lenses, which really opens up the options quite a bit anyway.

But several third party companies have come forth with adapters to a variety of lenses. For example, Novoflex:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022306novoflexnx.asp
adapters to Nikon F, Canon FD, Minolta MD, Minolta/Sony Alpha, Leica R, Pentax K, Olympus OM, M42, T2.

 

[ranma-cs]

Some everyday snapshots.
These should demonstrate the bokeh well, remember this is a kit lens.
All photos taken with Nx100 and 30mm f/2. No sharpening applied. Sharpness was on -3 on the nx100 with a scale of -4 to 4. Medium Contrast Point Tone Curve selection on LR3.


No noticeable Chromatic Aberration @f/2 !





Dont think i nailed the focus on this one.

 

[ranma-cs]

All taken by my wife on smart auto mode;
Note the AWB






On details, sharpness, contrast and colors .. Pardon the lack of control over dof as these were taken on Smart Auto by my wife.

 

[ranma-cs]

The shutter speed was probably too low as the guy shifted his head while the photo was taken. But i like what was captured. Shot @ ISO400 f/2.
To get similar results on the nex with 18-55 i would need to shoot @ iso 3200 55mm f5.6 and the isolation would still not be that good.
Shot by my wife too =)

 

[rhino123]

With all due respect, a little careful reading will yield you a lot of results.

The dpreview website I have posted says that the 30mm results are similar to the Panasonic 20mm/F1.7, but does not rely on software correction to get there. Therefore it is implied that the optical quality of the 30mm is superior.

Comparing with the Sony NEX 16mm:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/page8.asp

Please look at the sharpness numbers compared to the NX30mm at all apertures. The 30mm shows consistent sharpness, on the MTF-50 test, of slightly less than 1500. The 16mm is on the other hand only sharp right in the center, but loses this quickly towards the edges (corner sharpness averages between 750 to 1125, which is poor). The 30mm also has almost no chromatic aberration - which is quite rare for a kit lens.

Furthermore, I think the 16mm is not a good primary kit lens to have. It is too wide for normal practical use or street shooting. i.e. unless you are shooting landscapes, room interiors or architectures all the time. I think this is discussed in the dpreview link I posted up also.

Regarding adapters, Samsung have their own native adapters for the K mount lenses, which really opens up the options quite a bit anyway.

But several third party companies have come forth with adapters to a variety of lenses. For example, Novoflex:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022306novoflexnx.asp
adapters to Nikon F, Canon FD, Minolta MD, Minolta/Sony Alpha, Leica R, Pentax K, Olympus OM, M42, T2.

Ok. saw what you have read in dpreview... and saw what Ranma-CS had put up too.

However as to photo taken on field. Right about all the camera - Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Samsung can produce similar outcome.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/01/18/the-pansonic-lumix-g-20-1-7-lens-review/
http://www.lenstip.com/269.11-Lens_review-Panasonic_LUMIX_G_20_mm_f_1.7_ASPH._Summary.html

The two websites I posted show of some samples photo too. I do not have a 20mm lens so I cannot show you any shots.

So I seriously don't see how Samsung is better than Olympus/ Pansonic and Sony. And as to the number of lens available, Olympus and Panasonic wins hands down. Samsung had quite an agressive marketing strategy though.

So all in all, TS will still need to go to the shop and test out these cameras to see which one suit TS and friend better... basically I don't believe in whichever camera in the mirrorless camera sector produces out of this world incredible images. I have seen people with the EP-L1/ L2 that shoot excellent macro photos (lots of blur - for those who are obcess with blur and yet lots of details too).

And as I have mentioned in my previous posts - it all depend on a few points. I am too lazy to dig up that post though.

 

[ranma-cs]

Ok. saw what you have read in dpreview... and saw what CS-Rama had put up too.

However as to photo taken on field. Right about all the camera - Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Samsung can produce similar outcome.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/01/18/the-pansonic-lumix-g-20-1-7-lens-review/
http://www.lenstip.com/269.11-Lens_review-Panasonic_LUMIX_G_20_mm_f_1.7_ASPH._Summary.html

The two websites I posted show of some samples photo too. I do not have a 20mm lens so I cannot show you any shots.

So I seriously don't see how Samsung is better than Olympus/ Pansonic and Sony. And as to the number of lens available, Olympus and Panasonic wins hands down. Samsung had quite an agressive marketing strategy though.

So all in all, TS will still need to go to the shop and test out these cameras to see which one suit TS and friend better... basically I don't believe in whichever camera in the mirrorless camera sector produces out of this world incredible images. I have seen people with the EP-L1/ L2 that shoot excellent macro photos (lots of blur - for those who are obcess with blur and yet lots of details too).

And as I have mentioned in my previous posts - it all depend on a few points. I am too lazy to dig up that post though.

I liked the EPL2 a lot. Out of camera jpegs are fabulous. Very good camera to have for travels.
For portraits, my personal take is that if u can shoot with manual autofocus, go with the sony as it had better high iso performance and dynamic range. Fit a cheap and good olympus OM 50mm prime to it.

 

[rhino123]

I liked the EPL2 a lot. Out of camera jpegs are fabulous. Very good camera to have for travels.
My personal take is that if u can shoot with manual autofocus, go with the sony as it had better high iso performance and dynamic range.

I think you have me misunderstood. I am not comparing any camera of any brands and I do not speak of which camera and its lens are better.

I believe that all the mirrorless cameras performed more or less as they are intented to do. TS will have to decide for herself which one is the right one for her... and if mirrorless camera is the right camera or a DSLR is the right choice.

 

[ranma-cs]

I think you have me misunderstood. I am not comparing any camera of any brands and I do not speak of which camera and its lens are better.

I believe that all the mirrorless cameras performed more or less as they are intented to do. TS will have to decide for herself which one is the right one for her... and if mirrorless camera is the right camera or a DSLR is the right choice.

Agreed.

 

[bayusuputra]

LOL! TS was just asking which camera is light and good for beginner.. all this talk is like recommending a lens/system for an advance amateur.. i can't help but laugh if people start talking about technical stuff as if it's ONLY the technical stuff that makes the photos brilliant..

HAHA!

 

[Shahmatt]

LOL! TS was just asking which camera is light and good for beginner.. all this talk is like recommending a lens/system for an advance amateur.. i can't help but laugh if people start talking about technical stuff as if it's ONLY the technical stuff that makes the photos brilliant..

HAHA!

Agreed. But even a cheap investment in a DSLR or mirrorless camera would be an investment into a lens system, which can lead to much more expense in the future and second-thoughts if not done wisely.

It is safe to go with Canikon, Olympus, Pentax and Sony DSLR systems since they are well established.

But my personal belief is that mirrorless cameras will be the future.. since they are smaller and much lighter (see earlier post), have a larger sized sensor inside them and have no real handicap compared to the DSLR.

I don't care so much about high ISO noise, lens resolution etc. I am not a pixel peeper. I only argued my case when rhino123 said the 30mm was a poor lens - this is not true.

I care about size and weight (with lens and battery etc. attached), features, image quality and cost.

I vote for Samsung NX10 with 30mm pancake because:
a. Size and weight = very small and light
b. Features = Everything a beginner and enthusiast needs with flash included. Class leading battery life also (400 shots).
c. Image quality = APS-C, and lens offers very comfortable 45mm field of view with fast F2.0 aperture
d. Cost = very cheap compared to the rest

 

[rhino123]

I only argued my case when rhino123 said the 30mm was a poor lens - this is not true.

Where in the world did I say that 30mm was a poor lens? I say Samsung's kit lens is the worst of the bunch, and I am merely reflecting what I read from the website that I had posted, plus that kit lens is not the 30mm lens. My second statements on this issues is that Sony's prime lens is better off (this was also merely reflecting on what I have read.)

Again... I NEVER SAY that 30mm lens is a poor lens.

 

[Shahmatt]

Where in the world did I say that 30mm was a poor lens? I say Samsung's kit lens is the worst of the bunch, and I am merely reflecting what I read from the website that I had posted, plus that kit lens is not the 30mm lens. My second statements on this issues is that Sony's prime lens is better off (this was also merely reflecting on what I have read.)

Again... I NEVER SAY that 30mm lens is a poor lens.

Though you do not use the word "poor", I think my meaning is the same as what you have said in your original statement. This is because "poor" means that which is relative to the other options available. I think this is quite obvious.

 

[rhino123]

Though you do not use the word "poor", I think my meaning is the same as what you have said in your original statement. This is because "poor" means that which is relative to the other options available. I think this is quite obvious.

Oh... come on... that is weak. Just admit what you say is wrong. I have never say that Samsung's 30mm is poor, as in whatever meaning your poor means.

My original intention and from the website that I have posted, say that Samsung kit lens is the worst of the bunch. But that kit lens (if you bother to read the website) was not the 30mm lens.

As to the 30mm lens, the website actually said that it is pretty good, same as the Panasonic's own offering, while Olympus prime lens fare the worst... and Sony's one are the best.

Does this actually translate to 30mm lens being a poor lens? If you really wanted to pick on language, then I have really nothing to say, as that is just merely twisting my words and meaning. And if your original idea of poor was as you say and I quote,

"This is because "poor" means that which is relative to the other options available."

Then seriously we should throw away most of our lens, because we do not have "the best lens" available.

My original intention for this was not to compare lens and camera systems... And I have maintained that all the camera systems work what they were intented for.

 

[kei1309]

Edit: I have read the review again. The reviewer appears to start off by reviewing the 20mm pancake and 20-40mm compact zoom lenses on offer with the NX100 (not NX10), yet somehow later changes to 30mm (45mm) equiv. The reviewer appears to be confused as heck. He has mentioned three different NX mount lenses and does not indicate which one he is talking about in your excerpt. This review is very messed up!

that's because he's reviewing everything (from 4 different cameras) and giving a short excerpt of what he's doing. i can follow what he's talking about though.

but one thing's for certain. a kit lens can never beat a prime kit lens in terms of IQ. so the prime lenses on each body are the best.

yup... but among all the zoom kit lenses, the nex's seems to be the worst in IQ. but i can tell you... it's pretty much solid in terms of feel.

anyways, take thom with a pinch of salt. he's a Nikon and Panasonic fanboy.

 

[daredevil123]

Whole bunch of pixel peepers and fan boys of different brands in here. Poor old TS.

 

[bayusuputra]

Whole bunch of pixel peepers and fan boys of different brands in here. Poor old TS.

Ya, lah, if only they can answer just like what Shahmatt said in the end.. it won't be so confusing.. No wonder TS is no show here.. overwhelmed already.. :bsmilie:

...I vote for Samsung NX10 with 30mm pancake because:
a. Size and weight = very small and light
b. Features = Everything a beginner and enthusiast needs with flash included. Class leading battery life also (400 shots).
c. Image quality = APS-C, and lens offers very comfortable 45mm field of view with fast F2.0 aperture
d. Cost = very cheap compared to the rest...

Just some add on, if TS don't mind second hand, can get those entry level DSLR like nikon d40/d60, canon 1000d, pentax K20d/k10d/k200d/k100 (<-- not really sure which one also..), sony A200.. those might cost around $400 or less with kit lens..

personally, i wouldn't care which system that i use.. when i just started photography i didn't know which one to use, in the end i just used my dad's canon T50 and Pentax ME super.. when i started playing with DSLR, i got nikon.. now RF, i got olympus and Canon.. I believe every system is good, and they at least have lenses that cover from wide to tele for normal beginner use, and plenty of adapter/third party lenses as well.. yes, you may say that these will degrade IQ, but do you enjoy photograph for its technical perfection or for its artistic value? Ansel, HCB, Robert Capa etc could produce photographs so artistic that we forget they are underexposed/not focused/blurry.. nowadays, i think more than half the photographers care so much about technicalities and become spoiled by technologies that a little bit of CA and low resolution will render a lens useless..

i now sometimes feel that photography is more about technology than art..
we should rather call it "Light Engineering".. :sticktong

 

[boxiez]

Thanks thanks thanks.. once again for all the feedback.
abit too much technical stuff for me to absorb

Spoken w my female fren, guess she is deciding between Samsung Nx / Sony Nex / Pansonic Lumix G 20 / Olympus E-P2. - as ultimately she prefer to bring the camera around for snap shot of people / objects around. not those v prof type.
one qns to ask.

Regarding these small "So call DSLR", all these camera do not have a build in flash unit.

The add on Flash unit for these cameras isn't that powerful compare to other dslr .
Is it necessary to purchase the additional flash? or normally people use these cameras W/O the flash unit.

Example --> if taking pics at Dark area like (Pubs / Clubs / indoor w low light )


thanks thanks again~~ =D

 

[kei1309]

Thanks thanks thanks.. once again for all the feedback.
abit too much technical stuff for me to absorb

Spoken w my female fren, guess she is deciding between Samsung Nx / Sony Nex / Pansonic Lumix G 20 / Olympus E-P2. - as ultimately she prefer to bring the camera around for snap shot of people / objects around. not those v prof type.
one qns to ask.

Regarding these small "So call DSLR", all these camera do not have a build in flash unit.

The add on Flash unit for these cameras isn't that powerful compare to other dslr .
Is it necessary to purchase the additional flash? or normally people use these cameras W/O the flash unit.

Example --> if taking pics at Dark area like (Pubs / Clubs / indoor w low light )


thanks thanks again~~ =D

no club would allow a professional looking camera inside.. and i would say it's a bad idea to bring any of these cameras to go clubbing.

if clubbing's what your friend's looking for, and pubbing... lugging around any of these is just gonna add dead weight.

your friend should consider the Panasonic LX3/5 or Sony TX100/TX10

 

[Shahmatt]

Thanks thanks thanks.. once again for all the feedback.
abit too much technical stuff for me to absorb

Spoken w my female fren, guess she is deciding between Samsung Nx / Sony Nex / Pansonic Lumix G 20 / Olympus E-P2. - as ultimately she prefer to bring the camera around for snap shot of people / objects around. not those v prof type.
one qns to ask.

Regarding these small "So call DSLR", all these camera do not have a build in flash unit.

The add on Flash unit for these cameras isn't that powerful compare to other dslr .
Is it necessary to purchase the additional flash? or normally people use these cameras W/O the flash unit.

Example --> if taking pics at Dark area like (Pubs / Clubs / indoor w low light )


thanks thanks again~~ =D

The Samsung NX10, Panasonic G2, GF2, G10 and GH2, and Olympus EPL-2 all come with on-board flash units. Though I believe the GF2 and EPL-2 flash is weaker with a guide number of only 6m and 7m respectively. The NX10 flash GN is 11m I think and the G-2 about the same. The GH-2 has the most powerful flash at 13.9m, more than even entry level DSLRs actually.

Panny and Olympus fanboys please correct me if I am wrong. Not sure about this.

The Sony NEX3 and 5, Samsung NX100 (not NX10) and Olympus E-2 do not have on-board flashes.