Can't compare with the AF-S 200/2.0 VR. That huge chunk of lens is not for normal folks. Its made for bokeh fetishists
Nikon D700, time to switch camp
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Can't compare with the AF-S 200/2.0 VR. That huge chunk of lens is not for normal folks. Its made for bokeh fetishists
I own both systems (yeah...I am more a gear head than a photographer 
)
But when I first started getting into DSLR, I was coming straight from a manual focus film system. The whole AF scene sort of whizzed by me without me noticing. So I didnt have any issues with so-called legacy lens. I could start afresh and what attracted me about the 4/3 system was that it's a digital format designed from the ground up. This didnt seem to be an issue when sensor "size" was 5~6 meg. But look at the D3 now: "legendary" legacy lenses are suddenly not so "legendary" now. Even the relatively new 70-200VR is reportedly not optimised for the D3. So you really must applaud Oly for adopting a planned approach in the whole DSLR scene.
Please do not think that I am bashing Nikon. I am not. I love my Nikon, as much as I love my Oly. However, it's almost invariably the Oly that accompanies me on my overseas trips and holidays. And there is one more thing that I like about the Oly. Folks on dpreview have praised its natural skin tones, something that I thought was not that relevant for us Asians. But somehow, I still prefer the skin tones straight out from my Oly.
As for shooting in low-light. I shot a concert the other night. The concert hall was not darkened out so I would think the lighting level would approximate those in a typical restaurant or pub. At ISO 1600 f/2.8, the shutter speeds went as low as 1/30s. Assuming that you push it to ISO 6400 f/2.8, you are still dealing with speeds as low as 1/125. If f/2.8 is too razor-thin for you and that f/8 is preferred, you would be really pushing things to the extreme even with VR.
Just my humble opinions
)But when I first started getting into DSLR, I was coming straight from a manual focus film system. The whole AF scene sort of whizzed by me without me noticing. So I didnt have any issues with so-called legacy lens. I could start afresh and what attracted me about the 4/3 system was that it's a digital format designed from the ground up. This didnt seem to be an issue when sensor "size" was 5~6 meg. But look at the D3 now: "legendary" legacy lenses are suddenly not so "legendary" now. Even the relatively new 70-200VR is reportedly not optimised for the D3. So you really must applaud Oly for adopting a planned approach in the whole DSLR scene.
Please do not think that I am bashing Nikon. I am not. I love my Nikon, as much as I love my Oly. However, it's almost invariably the Oly that accompanies me on my overseas trips and holidays. And there is one more thing that I like about the Oly. Folks on dpreview have praised its natural skin tones, something that I thought was not that relevant for us Asians. But somehow, I still prefer the skin tones straight out from my Oly.
As for shooting in low-light. I shot a concert the other night. The concert hall was not darkened out so I would think the lighting level would approximate those in a typical restaurant or pub. At ISO 1600 f/2.8, the shutter speeds went as low as 1/30s. Assuming that you push it to ISO 6400 f/2.8, you are still dealing with speeds as low as 1/125. If f/2.8 is too razor-thin for you and that f/8 is preferred, you would be really pushing things to the extreme even with VR.
Just my humble opinions
1st of all, y a slightly larger sensor? To have a better control of noise issue? Would something like aps-c sensor helps in better control of noise? below birding pictures was extracted from http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/Sigma Photos.htm taken using Canon 40D + Sigma 150-500mm @ 500mm; f6.3; ISO 250; 1/1250sec according to the above mentioned link.
It makes me wonder if my lcd is havng problems? a need a pair of glass? this breed of bird have such unique patterns? or was it a noise issue?
2nd of all,we have no doubts adding vignetting effects will shift attention toward the center subject of the photo. Do u want all of your pictures to have vignetting effects and how many of your so call "some photographers" need a flaw design cam ???
3rd of all, y Oly to follow on others format instead of other brands coming into digital format since there is so much feedback on heavy & bulky lens?
This is endless if comparing between 2 different tools as each has their pros & cons. I hope i've clear your doubts and im sure in near future, Oly will come out with better handling in noise control.
http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/Sigma Photos.htm
Of all samples on the site you had to pick the worst picts :nono:
You've heard what the moderator said, be mature about this topic and try to have a cool headed discussion.
Of all samples on the site you had to pick the worst picts :nono:
You've heard what the moderator said, be mature about this topic and try to have a cool headed discussion.
mmm... if you are worried about AF, you should know that the full frame your are getting into has half the DOF of 4/3rds lens. ie the 50mm f/2 prime of 4/3rds is actually a 100mm f/4 in terms of DOF. One of the "advantages" of 4/3rds is that it has more DOF, making it easier to focus. And olympus AF is one of the more consistent and accurate I have used. BUT I have to calibrate my sigma 30mm f1.4 to my DSLR at the sigma service center to achieve consistently good focus at f1.4.
Trust me, I know nuts about manual focus, but I can use the sigma at f1.4 easily, just press the button and if the subject is stationary, the focus will be spot on.
If you want to use f8, I think it is pretty tough to shoot indoors even with ISO6400.
agreed. but sometimes that is an advantage. IS requires you to use slow shutter speed in low light while high ISO requires you to use high shutter speed in low light.
Depending on what you want, it is either an advantage or disadvantage.
Example, if you want to capture the silky blur or waterfalls, rivers, high ISO is not going to help. Or if you want a sharp picture of something in motion, IS is not going to help.
Anyway, the reason for the noise is that the pictures were probably very heavily cropped, very very heavily.
Also, using bad pics does not prove that a camera is no good; rather, it just shows the photographer less-than-competent.
actually like TS, i also hate that image noise since i was a panny user.
been wanting to switch over to canon due to their cmos sensor and they have better entry models at a price of course.
besides i have no canon friends only friends with nikon, so nikon naturally becomes a choice.
and the canon sub-forum section is not so friendly towards newbies...something i observed over the years in cs.
i'm happy for nikon in their development of a smaller FF body but i will most likely be sticking to DX range instead of FX, since i dont really wanna invest much for this hobby.
seriously i have try to consider the IS in the body system like oly/ sony/pentax but some of the product reviews over in dpreview really is not doing oly any favours.
the reviewers at dpreview seems to like to complain about that small VF in the 4/3 mount and of course the noise issues over iso 400/800.
so is either you keep faith with the brand and be rewarded 6 years later down the road like some patient nikon users or be like some of the pro wedding photographers who switch to cheaper 5D when they give up on nikon's slow FF development.
been wanting to switch over to canon due to their cmos sensor and they have better entry models at a price of course.
besides i have no canon friends only friends with nikon, so nikon naturally becomes a choice.
and the canon sub-forum section is not so friendly towards newbies...something i observed over the years in cs.
i'm happy for nikon in their development of a smaller FF body but i will most likely be sticking to DX range instead of FX, since i dont really wanna invest much for this hobby.
seriously i have try to consider the IS in the body system like oly/ sony/pentax but some of the product reviews over in dpreview really is not doing oly any favours.
the reviewers at dpreview seems to like to complain about that small VF in the 4/3 mount and of course the noise issues over iso 400/800.
so is either you keep faith with the brand and be rewarded 6 years later down the road like some patient nikon users or be like some of the pro wedding photographers who switch to cheaper 5D when they give up on nikon's slow FF development.
Im sorry if my words makes u think that I lose my cool. When i was reading abt the suggestion u make, frankly n seriously i was actually laughing. I was just trying to highlight to you on the suggestion u made wasnt practical at all. I have to agree with you that i pick the worse pics on the site, but wasnt it the same like what other brand user pick on Oly regarding noise?
I also have to admit that I need to use noise ninja etc to remove away noise causes when shooting at ISO 3200, hopefully Oly can come out with better noise filter near future. In terms of glass, I think we are not behind of any leading brands at all. Try to imaging same f-stop with same focal length u will know how portable and light Oly glass is. Also, Zuiko glass is tack sharp.
Im not here to defense 4/3, Oly or into any debates. Im actually trying to share my newbie
knowledge of 4/3 and Oly.
If any of my words offended any whom is reading, I sincerely apologise as I have no intention of doing so at all.
Personally, I've never allowed my friends to influence my choices...you have to live your own life and use what works best for you. Same with advertisements, they don't influence me one bit.
To me if your friends don't understand your choice of Olympus, it's THEIR loss! I don't put down their choices, although I do point out when I see dust in their images! :bsmilie:
i've always been intrigued by olympus since using the c8080 and now i have the c7070 and just added an e330. I must say that no doubt canon/nikon does hi-iso clean images better, they can't beat olympus for colours rendering. I'm drawn to olympus mainly for its 3D colours (its not a myth as i've shot extensively on canon for comparisons) and i think the e330 live view is actually very usable and not what i read in the many reviews slamming it. if all you wan your cam is to shoot indoors low light without flash assist, the iso performance from the full frames cams will definitely help alot. But i think that's really alot of price to pay for such 'focused' application. and when you got that full frame body, you'll need a good lens to really show off what the sensor is capable of. Slapping a normal zoom in front of the camera won't magically produce beautiful photos just because the camera does clean hi-iso. Where olympus shines is that all the ZD lenses are optimised for the 4/3rd sensor. I dunno what telecentricity is but seems like all their ZD lenses are build to achieve close to that which is suppose to be 'good'
if you have enough to blow on the d3, you should still be able to keep an oly. shoot both and compare, i think there's more to picture quality than just good hi-iso images.
if you have enough to blow on the d3, you should still be able to keep an oly. shoot both and compare, i think there's more to picture quality than just good hi-iso images.
Well said!! :thumbsup:
To switch or not to switch is really a very personal thing.
If money is not a problem just switch.
Sometimes, I know it is frustrating to miss some shots due to your equipment limitation.
But think again, can we captured everything ? The answer is no.
I am so far still happy with my Nikon system.
Occasionally, I will have the urge to own a Canon, Pentax, Sony or Olympus.
However, after much self consideration, I still decide to shoot with what I already have.
End of the day is the photograph that matter most.
Of course, one day if I can no longer control the urge to switch, I will just buy if I can afford, and enjoy the new toy.
If money is not a problem just switch.
Sometimes, I know it is frustrating to miss some shots due to your equipment limitation.
But think again, can we captured everything ? The answer is no.
I am so far still happy with my Nikon system.
Occasionally, I will have the urge to own a Canon, Pentax, Sony or Olympus.
However, after much self consideration, I still decide to shoot with what I already have.
End of the day is the photograph that matter most.
Of course, one day if I can no longer control the urge to switch, I will just buy if I can afford, and enjoy the new toy.
tomcat
Senior Member
I don't believe in depending solely on online reviews in deciding on whether to buy or not to buy an particular brand/model of camera as such reviews are written by human beings who by nature could not avoid being bias or partial for or against a particular brand... and sometimes they don't even try to avoid it like the case of dpreview.
This is similar with depending on the high-iso images posted by users in this or other forums. Most if not all users would post the best quality high-iso images from their cameras by nature. I have used enough DSLRs to know that under good lighting conditions, the difference in image quality between different brands of DSLRs could be quite marginal at high iso speeds. Also, no DSLRs could produce ISO 1600 images that are equal to the image quality at ISO 100 which is why I never would shoot at ISO 800 and above if I could help it. I mean like how many wedding photographers you know of who use high ISO instead of bounced flash to do their work?
It is usually best to try the camera out for ourselves if possible to see if it really meets our personal needs or not before committing our hard earned money to it. A lot of times, one might feel that a particular feature, like high ISO ability for example, is the only deal-killer. But once we bought the DSLR that we felt is the best in terms of this feature, we then find that it is not really that great after all or that there are now other features of that camera that irritate us and which were better on our previous camera. So it might be good to go on outings with users of these cameras and bring along our own camera (and extra memory cards) to do an apple-for-apple comparison by shooting the same scene under the same conditions and to get better feel for the handling of other DSLRs before actually buying one.
This is similar with depending on the high-iso images posted by users in this or other forums. Most if not all users would post the best quality high-iso images from their cameras by nature. I have used enough DSLRs to know that under good lighting conditions, the difference in image quality between different brands of DSLRs could be quite marginal at high iso speeds. Also, no DSLRs could produce ISO 1600 images that are equal to the image quality at ISO 100 which is why I never would shoot at ISO 800 and above if I could help it. I mean like how many wedding photographers you know of who use high ISO instead of bounced flash to do their work?
It is usually best to try the camera out for ourselves if possible to see if it really meets our personal needs or not before committing our hard earned money to it. A lot of times, one might feel that a particular feature, like high ISO ability for example, is the only deal-killer. But once we bought the DSLR that we felt is the best in terms of this feature, we then find that it is not really that great after all or that there are now other features of that camera that irritate us and which were better on our previous camera. So it might be good to go on outings with users of these cameras and bring along our own camera (and extra memory cards) to do an apple-for-apple comparison by shooting the same scene under the same conditions and to get better feel for the handling of other DSLRs before actually buying one.
to have friends from the same system helps especially when you can borrow lens during an outing.
if we have a return system like the US, i bet most singaporeans would be abusing this system to their full advantage.
in such cases, i can try out various different brands and if i dont like it can return in for another cam.
the sensor cleaning function is a good to have, but not a must especially when i know how to clean my sensor.
tomcat
Senior Member
Olympus seems to be moving in the right direction now. They are coming out with more unique lenses eg 12-60mm SWD, 25mm pancake, 9-18mm, etc as well as low cost DSLR bodies with smaller form factor but packed full of features like the E-420 & E-520. According to some dpreview forumers with insider knowledge, the next DSLR Olympus would be coming would have the form factor of the E-4xx but with most of the features of the E-3.
MichaelLee
Senior Member
I am not asking whether there is room to grow should Olympus have plans for a larger sensor in the future.
I am asking why canon and nikon do not have any plan to come out with FX format lens that comes with mount 2 times larger than the sensor..??
wat..no plan..? does it mean I jump to conclusion the exisitng user should also switch away from Canon or Nikon..?
MichaelLee
Senior Member
one of the 4/3 system feature - lens mount 2 times bigger than lens sensor.
zuiko system born digitally. not like canon & nikon half way switched to digital where they had the first few DSLRs but only have the traditional 35mm format lens. When they progress more into digital, they changed the based (sensor size)
For example, with 1.3X, 1.6X and 1X (3 sensor size ) for one digital system. One may not be sure whether to commit into one particular lens.
I have friends sold alway 17-35mm (FX format lens) and get DX12-24mm. Then he considered selling the DX lens when he switch to D700.
if the sensor size keep changing , it would directly impact what lenses you should own.When you change camera, you may have to change the lens as well. That is quite piss off. But good for the company.
with 4/3 system, we (until now) never worry that with a new camera , whether my existing 4/3 lens is compatable. from the very first e1 to latest e420.
even the old olympus manual lens with adapter will become a VR lens on e3 and e520.
either improve 4/3 sensor, or improve the exisitng sensor.
for existing 4/3 user, which one you would prefer ? I think the answer is very obvious already.
Would you lend out your best lenses?
The closest I've come to that is at a gathering of Olympus users, but I never let my lenses or my body out of my sight.
I'm willing to let people try my equipment, but only in my presence.
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