let's close down critique corner

[eikin]

I don't really see which sentence he was blaming you,don't jump to conclusion.:nono:

look

U got time to critique, why only 1 question and no explaination for the question ? I thought u post a very detail guide for C&C ?

is that not saying that i should have gone for the full page commentary?

 

[raptor84]

While I agree that the guidelines for the corner can seem pretty daunting for a person new to photography, I pretty much agree that if we want to preserve the quality of comments in that section, the poster must know what he/she is striving to achieve rather than posting a random snap and hoping that someone will tell them how to make it better.

I have only posted in that section occasionally and I found the feedback useful especially since the 2 subjects were not in my comfort zone (macro and portraits). I also try as much to give feedback to users whenever I see a pic in the CC thats in my 'niche' but as mentioned before if those who ask for comments do not specify exactly what they want its hard to give critiques too.

 

[willdon]

look



is that not saying that i should have gone for the full page commentary?

doesn't look like blaming you.
And detailed doesn't mean full page too.

 

[eikin]

doesn't look like blaming you.
And detailed doesn't mean full page too.

good that you think so.

my reply to you will be that i do not know enough of the picture to give any critique detailed enough to fill a sentence. i can write a whole paragraph putting down the picture based on personal assumptions of what the critique seeker is trying to do, but is that going to be fair to him if i don't give him a chance to explain in the first place?

 

[willdon]

how much more basic can this go?

are you looking for critique on the picture you've created or on prada's poster?

To me,this is not basic,more of like mocking.
So if next time i wanted to post a landscape photo,do i need to include if i need critique on the photo,the sunset,the sea,the boat,the tree behind or the flower?
I find the threadstarter was already quite detailed,well at least for me who din even finish sec school.
Poor thread starter.

 

[eikin]

To me,this is not basic,more of like mocking.
So if next time i wanted to post a landscape photo,do i need to include if i need critique on the photo,the sunset,the sea,the boat,the tree behind or the flower?
I find the threadstarter was already quite detailed,well at least for me who din even finish sec school.
Poor thread starter.

i can only tell you that such questions are not only common in real life critique, but they are almost always asked first if the critique seeker does not provide enough information.

for trying to respect the critique seeker, now you're saying that it sounds mocking.

fine.

it's because there are people who think like this, i will stop making any postings in critique corner from now. it does not do me any good anyway.

 

[willdon]

ekin,i do hope you stay in critique corner.

Maybe i just took the reply too heavy.
I just do hop there is a better system for this sub forum which is handled by ekin well.
mods ,please deregister me.

 

[bahibo]

well well, ok , it's not deep in technical term. But it's contain the multi meaning, wether it is a schold or a question for the photographers to think ,i dont know.

And yes, i thought u said that we should provide more detail and technical comment given ur guideline,then now u throw in one question .

And u said u dont look for fast change, but then u post here, saying like we all betrayer to ur great idea ,and suggest to close the C&C .

Well, i never said i'm newbie or i need special treatment. When people told me i break the forum rule, i appologize and fix it, when they give me harsh comment, i learn from it and move on. But do u put urself equal to me and the newbie that u throw the question in ?

Give u a scenario : U , a newbie who just join the forum to look for help. Post ur first photo of the poster because u always see those street photographer taking people in front of poster.

Then a superuser come in , see and said : " What are u trying to show ? What did u do to show that ? "

Without understand that this question is to make him think of why did he shoot the photo , what the idea .... But can interpret this way

what are u trying to show - there is nothing there man , nothing
What did u do to show it - ok, u got some idea, but u done nothing man , nothing.

ehhh, would u come back to the forum....... It's not about how he take the comment, but it is ur comment that unclear. And well, he forget to put the explaination why he take the photo...

About "dont feel bad about me " , well, i'm a coward , dont want superuser follow me around and look for bad things..... u know, i tend to bump around and doesn't really do everything to the guideline Getting ban not really good, got my thread close and create a fight in feedback corner to get it back just waste time...

 

[eikin]

i will continue to regulate the critique corner until there's someone willing enough, have enough time and appointed by the admin to handle critique corner. but i will not make any critique postings from now.

 

[eikin]

well well, ok , it's not deep in technical term. But it's contain the multi meaning, wether it is a schold or a question for the photographers to think ,i dont know.

And yes, i thought u said that we should provide more detail and technical comment given ur guideline,then now u throw in one question .

And u said u dont look for fast change, but then u post here, saying like we all betrayer to ur great idea ,and suggest to close the C&C .

Well, i never said i'm newbie or i need special treatment. When people told me i break the forum rule, i appologize and fix it, when they give me harsh comment, i learn from it and move on. But do u put urself equal to me and the newbie that u throw the question in ?

Give u a scenario : U , a newbie who just join the forum to look for help. Post ur first photo of the poster because u always see those street photographer taking people in front of poster.

Then a superuser come in , see and said : " What are u trying to show ? What did u do to show that ? "

Without understand that this question is to make him think of why did he shoot the photo , what the idea .... But can interpret this way

what are u trying to show - there is nothing there man , nothing
What did u do to show it - ok, u got some idea, but u done nothing man , nothing.

ehhh, would u come back to the forum....... It's not about how he take the comment, but it is ur comment that unclear. And well, he forget to put the explaination why he take the photo...

About "dont feel bad about me " , well, i'm a coward , dont want superuser follow me around and look for bad things..... u know, i tend to bump around and doesn't really do everything to the guideline Getting ban not really good, got my thread close and create a fight in feedback corner to get it back just waste time...

i think i've explained enough. apologies if you are still unconvinced or do not understand. thanks.

 

[pai]

i haven't been observing critique corner closely enough to tell if it's improved or not over 1.5 years. but i do think that it's existence is a good thing. there are plenty of requests and critiques that aren't thought out, but i also see interesting pictures, questions, and responses.

clubsnap as a community is changing slowly but surely. i think that the corner is one of those things that will help affect which direction the change takes. the fact that the corner itself provokes so many questions about what makes a good critique is important, especially because at the root of it is the more basic question about what is important in photography.

if you're getting tired or frustrated, take a short break? or maybe even a longer one. but give the project more time...

 

[Conundrumachinist]

Instead of starting a poll to close down the critiques corner which admin/mod took so much effort to built?
I think we should think of a better way to improve rather than choosing the easy way out.
Example could be
1) Guidelines to show before starting a thread in critique corner.
2) thread title
3) upload 1 pic
4) what you intend to show?
5) what have you show?
6) include all exif informations

Please see this thread

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=139941

I think Eikin's frustration stems from the fact that despite this being up for more than 2 years no one bothers to read it before posting.

To me,this is not basic,more of like mocking.
So if next time i wanted to post a landscape photo,do i need to include if i need critique on the photo,the sunset,the sea,the boat,the tree behind or the flower?
I find the threadstarter was already quite detailed,well at least for me who din even finish sec school.
Poor thread starter.

Well in a sense yes. Two people can take the same scene and come up with totally different photograph. One could have the tree in the foreground in focus and the boat and the sea out of focus. Another could use the trees to frame the shot of the boat etc. Then of course you have to comment on why you made these choices.

 

[glennyong]

i am thinking of doing a "Submit Critic" concept. where you fill up the forms and upload photos or insert url link to the image.

so every single thread submited will be moderated and approved by the mods. so those submits without enough or proper information will be ignored.

but well.... so far. even for the new guidelines. not many of the members are still practising the new guidelines posted. and with the amount of useless comments piling up.

:dunno:

 

[nigel84]

I would say no to closing it down. Yes at time posting and making one understand the thought process is tough, however how tough it is, closing down critque corner would just be as gd as not giving anyone the chance to learn. I believe there are many shy users around not daring to post but learning from others pictures, reading and digesting others comments. I would not say so that whatever questions being asked to the TS is too deep, however i would put it in a way that its in a grey shade. Perhaps, an example "like what are u trying to show; 'on your composition wise' " and maybe "What did u do to show it; 'ur framing etc' ". This perhaps would give the TS some direction on where you are heading to. And a part from the TS would be reading the directions before posting. Whatever that has been discussed here please let it be only a discussion, dun deny others from the vast knowledge base we had actually built up unknowly.

 

[Kit]

Well its all coming back again isn' it? People come, people go.

Every now and then, someone will come in thinking he/she can change something "for the better". Sooner or later, they become part of the statistics. Few names come to mind, you are not alone. You have to realise that CS has gotten too big and attracts every species that come along the way. In essence, you can't and won't be able to regulate it according to a given set of rules anymore. It just don't work.

Giving critics is just as good as voicing out an opinion and we know that everybody has one. It came as a surprise that people still think we can dish out honest critics everytime without some kind of repercussions once in a while. Egos get bruised during the process and its not a nice thing to swallow. That's reality.

About the manner a photograph is presented for critic. You have to know that not all understand the concept of criticism or rather, opinion on criticism varies from individual. Not all people here receive "formal" training in dealing with critics. Most of em just like to take photos and would like to know what other people think of their work that's all. At times, I don't see what's wrong with people not being able to say anything about the photographs. That sure didn't stop me from commenting on their work(if I'd like to).

I don't have any problem with closing down critique corner because I know for sure someone down the road will come and start all over again. And when he's done with it, someone else will take over and its goes on and on and on. How do you manage the unmanageable? Or do you think you can manage the unmanageable?

 

[Kit]

so every single thread submited will be moderated and approved by the mods. so those submits without enough or proper information will be ignored.

That itself is an occupation in its own rights. How much are you willing to pay?

 

[Pablo]

One small suggestion....

Have only ONE sticky.

Title it "READ THIS FIRST"

Set out the guidelines in the sticky "Simple and to the point. Nothing lengthy" then lock it.

Insetad of it having a yellow background, make it red.

Have too many stickies and a person will give up on reading them all first before jumping in.

.................................................

Don't give it away.

You do a good job.

Stick with it.

 

[eikin]

Well its all coming back again isn' it? People come, people go.

Every now and then, someone will come in thinking he/she can change something "for the better". Sooner or later, they become part of the statistics. Few names come to mind, you are not alone. You have to realise that CS has gotten too big and attracts every species that come along the way. In essence, you can't and won't be able to regulate it according to a given set of rules anymore. It just don't work.

Giving critics is just as good as voicing out an opinion and we know that everybody has one. It came as a surprise that people still think we can dish out honest critics everytime without some kind of repercussions once in a while. Egos get bruised during the process and its not a nice thing to swallow. That's reality.

About the manner a photograph is presented for critic. You have to know that not all understand the concept of criticism or rather, opinion on criticism varies from individual. Not all people here receive "formal" training in dealing with critics. Most of em just like to take photos and would like to know what other people think of their work that's all. At times, I don't see what's wrong with people not being able to say anything about the photographs. That sure didn't stop me from commenting on their work(if I'd like to).

I don't have any problem with closing down critique corner because I know for sure someone down the road will come and start all over again. And when he's done with it, someone else will take over and its goes on and on and on. How do you manage the unmanageable? Or do you think you can manage the unmanageable?

you have a cynical worldview.

not everyone has the benefit of coming into contact with critique work, which explains for the vast amount of guides and pointers. the provisions have been made to let those who do not know to know.

you're not the first person who tells me such things, but i don't believe in inaction because of skepticism. to try and fail is better than not even trying.

the first critique corner was closed down because there was too much fight.

the second doesn't have much fight, but unfortunately lack commitment from participants.

that's how i see it, so may the next better player take over.

 

[glennyong]

One small suggestion....

Have only ONE sticky.

Title it "READ THIS FIRST"

Set out the guidelines in the sticky "Simple and to the point. Nothing lengthy" then lock it.

Insetad of it having a yellow background, make it red.

Have too many stickies and a person will give up on reading them all first before jumping in.

.................................................

Don't give it away.

You do a good job.

Stick with it.

well. obviously people do not read stickies despite their colour and the mods still get comments like "close" and "good job"

well.... obviously these are the ones who give the moderators extra jobs to prune out such useless comments.

 

[Kit]

Sometimes, inaction will nurture a solution the fits in. Not everything has to be regulated. Its a hobby and people should be given the opportunity to learn at their own pace if they chosed to. I'm not being cynical but I have been around long enough to know that intervention will not work out always. If you think you've failed, you can jolly well call it a day now. You don't have to wait till the successor comes along.