Override2Zion
Senior Member
:bsmilie:
Sidetrack a little, i see a lot of foreigners (tourist & workers) there at the NDP as well.
Gracious society...
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:bsmilie:
Sidetrack a little, i see a lot of foreigners (tourist & workers) there at the NDP as well.
Yappy
Senior Member
..sorry don't understand ..very blurr!
at the seating gallery? (ligit ticket holders)
cos i am refering to litter left behind by S'poreans after the parade. to include those viewing nearby would be rather off topic, since public spaces are open to all & sundry...
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Override2Zion
Senior Member
No lah was referring to those standing on the bridge linking the esplanade and fullerton. :bsmilie:
tourists oso kenna?! :bsmilie:
Override2Zion
Senior Member
Yah man, i'm sure some of those trash are also contributed by some "inconsiderate" tourist, come to watch SG national day parade and litter, think about it also *hot* But Singaporeans doing it laggi *hot* :angry: Into river some more, witnessed one of them doing it :angry: :angry:
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Override2Zion
Senior Member
Not true wor, see below :bsmilie:
Singaporeans also kenna from me
No one gets away! :bsmilie:
But seriously we are still quite far away from being gracious society. Like in France, people give up their foldable seats to make more space when they see that the train cabin starting to crowd. In SG, we get people eager to grab seats, everyday its just like the olympics at the MRT station. Before the train doors open, you get wrestling, after the doors open you get dashing then finally long jump. :dunno:
Yappy
Senior Member
I think most of the time we are.
If you care to walk along the passage between City Hall MRT and Suntec City, you would notice that the place is sparking clean.
Also in the morning, when using the elevator, people always move to the left allowing those in the rush to use the space on the right.
Are we not gracious?
People do care.
If you care to walk along the passage between City Hall MRT and Suntec City, you would notice that the place is sparking clean.
Also in the morning, when using the elevator, people always move to the left allowing those in the rush to use the space on the right.
Are we not gracious?
People do care.
I think we cannot talk about this subject anymore.
We need to lock this thread.
Cos I think ppl dunno what is graciousness at all to talk about it.
How can we be gracious when we do not know what that word means?
To be gracious is NOT to assert your right even when it is yours, eg giving way to signalling vehicles. How often we see that? And instead how often we insist on our right of way? And who would not curse and even physically abuse others for violating your right?
So what has littering and returning your trays got to do with graciousness?
Do people return their plates in a restaurant? Of course not, you expect service.
So in Mac and hawker centre the de facto service concept is for others to collect your dirty dishes and clean your dirty table after you. Nothing to do with graciousness at all. Its all about service or lack thereof. To change that service concept you must make people pay to get their trays and bowls etc like trolleys in the supermarkets. Who wants to return trays and clean tables when there are people doing it for you. Make people pay and people will return their trays, gracious or not.
And even worst is seating in seats reserved for elderly or using handicap toilets when not handicap, and needing to be scolded for doing so. For instead of giving up your rights, you have violate others' rights. Nothing can be more diametrically opposed to graciousness. It is entirely anti-social and can in fact be criminal and deserves caning and fines.
And littering is just illegal. Period.
BUT we are all gracious in a way that we either know or dont know: we all have a right to know what happens to our money in our CPF, but we don't assert that right. There you are: ALL Singaporeans are gracious!
PS: Not to have foreign workers in your backyard can be arguably your right, especially when your vote counts, but to give up that right is graciousness.
We need to lock this thread.
Cos I think ppl dunno what is graciousness at all to talk about it.
How can we be gracious when we do not know what that word means?
To be gracious is NOT to assert your right even when it is yours, eg giving way to signalling vehicles. How often we see that? And instead how often we insist on our right of way? And who would not curse and even physically abuse others for violating your right?
So what has littering and returning your trays got to do with graciousness?
Do people return their plates in a restaurant? Of course not, you expect service.
So in Mac and hawker centre the de facto service concept is for others to collect your dirty dishes and clean your dirty table after you. Nothing to do with graciousness at all. Its all about service or lack thereof. To change that service concept you must make people pay to get their trays and bowls etc like trolleys in the supermarkets. Who wants to return trays and clean tables when there are people doing it for you. Make people pay and people will return their trays, gracious or not.
And even worst is seating in seats reserved for elderly or using handicap toilets when not handicap, and needing to be scolded for doing so. For instead of giving up your rights, you have violate others' rights. Nothing can be more diametrically opposed to graciousness. It is entirely anti-social and can in fact be criminal and deserves caning and fines.
And littering is just illegal. Period.
BUT we are all gracious in a way that we either know or dont know: we all have a right to know what happens to our money in our CPF, but we don't assert that right. There you are: ALL Singaporeans are gracious!
PS: Not to have foreign workers in your backyard can be arguably your right, especially when your vote counts, but to give up that right is graciousness.
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Espion, every society and culture has their good/bad points
I've been around latin american culture, black culture, european culture, american culture, and I can tell you that each have their good points and bad points, Italians talk too loudly, as do black people, many chinese people don't queue up, New Yorkers don't even care when a dead body is hanging on a fence (true story),etc etc
I think it's not very useful to keep harping on how bad we are compared to other cultures. I mean, just because other cultures clear their own plates, does that mean we're terrible for not clearing our plates? I would reserve judging cultures based on other cultures. It's the same as when we Singaporeans go to other countries and say "this is bad that is bad..."
Based on what? Our own value system of what is good and bad?
French people are terrible, they don't clear up their dog poop. but maybe that's part of their accepted culture.
Jewish people are very aggressive when it comes to money. But to them it's acceptable attitude, to others it's rude.
If you believe that something is not right, the two ways to approach it is to
1) chide the person
which I find very effective because in Singapore we just look on and grumble later, when it'll be very easy actually to just tell off the person whose actions you find offensive, on the spot.
2) lead by example and hope that other people will take note and follow
terryansimon
New Member
graciousness is a fluid term/existence, much like morality. depending on who is wearing the glasses, and what is the degree of vision correction on those glasses, one is always going to have differing points of view on what these terms are.
Singapore is viewed as ungracious by people who compare a lack of something against what they are comfortable with. I, as a self-declared Australian, marvel at the fact that when sirens are blaring down the streets, people instinctively give way to the passing emergency vehicle. I don't really see that happening in Singapore, and probably wouldn't see it happening if not for the fact that there are cameras on board such emergency vehicles in Singapore to record such instances. but does that mean I can lump Singapore as an ungracious society? maybe, but that would be adhering to a slippery slope fallacy.
as somebody correctly highlighted, each culture has its own merits/strengths and its own weaknesses. in social sciences, the commonly accepted maxim is that Asian society, in general, tend to be more collectivist than their Western compatriots (who tend to be more individualist). SURELY, there must be a grain of truth behind such thinking for it to become a social science maxim.
whilst I am never a staunch defender of Singapore and the behaviours of her people that hail from her, I also have to admit that she does have her merits. this is only possible because my view on graciousness differs from what other people view as gracious. the fact that we have a slightly better health care system for the elderly and needy (as opposed to the very slim health care system on offer over here in Australia) is a point.
which brings me back to my point of wearing "glasses". at the end of the day, you say po-tae-to, others say po-tah-to. end of the day, we're still talking about the same spud (in this analogy, it'd be the idea of graciousness), but just a different way of manifestation of the word itself.
Singapore is viewed as ungracious by people who compare a lack of something against what they are comfortable with. I, as a self-declared Australian, marvel at the fact that when sirens are blaring down the streets, people instinctively give way to the passing emergency vehicle. I don't really see that happening in Singapore, and probably wouldn't see it happening if not for the fact that there are cameras on board such emergency vehicles in Singapore to record such instances. but does that mean I can lump Singapore as an ungracious society? maybe, but that would be adhering to a slippery slope fallacy.
as somebody correctly highlighted, each culture has its own merits/strengths and its own weaknesses. in social sciences, the commonly accepted maxim is that Asian society, in general, tend to be more collectivist than their Western compatriots (who tend to be more individualist). SURELY, there must be a grain of truth behind such thinking for it to become a social science maxim.
whilst I am never a staunch defender of Singapore and the behaviours of her people that hail from her, I also have to admit that she does have her merits. this is only possible because my view on graciousness differs from what other people view as gracious. the fact that we have a slightly better health care system for the elderly and needy (as opposed to the very slim health care system on offer over here in Australia) is a point.
which brings me back to my point of wearing "glasses". at the end of the day, you say po-tae-to, others say po-tah-to. end of the day, we're still talking about the same spud (in this analogy, it'd be the idea of graciousness), but just a different way of manifestation of the word itself.
Our Vision here is to be a Gracious society.
As a Singaporean, we will have the sprint to strike for it. With all the mistakes pointed out by our leaders, we will able to notice others' ungracious act. And every gracious act we do, we will able to feel like having an extra "Angel's ring" added on top of our head. Isn't it? HAHAAHAHA!!!
Why compare with other people and culture? BTW, aren't we already stated that 'FT' and tourists also ungracious? So, where to take reference? Perhaps, we have to look up lor....AMiToFu....
As a Singaporean, we will have the sprint to strike for it. With all the mistakes pointed out by our leaders, we will able to notice others' ungracious act. And every gracious act we do, we will able to feel like having an extra "Angel's ring" added on top of our head. Isn't it? HAHAAHAHA!!!
Why compare with other people and culture? BTW, aren't we already stated that 'FT' and tourists also ungracious? So, where to take reference? Perhaps, we have to look up lor....AMiToFu....
COME ON LAH! WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEING....
Gracious is not looking at what and how other people is doing, but it's ME.
"Huh?! ME?"
"YES! ME!!!"
Gracious starts from ME!
wah, sudeenly font change size! :bigeyes:
totally agree! :cheers:
u must read between lines and paragraphs in what I write ... things are not always what they seems to be
Yappy
Senior Member
Pse correct me if I am wrong.
Graciousness includes, caring, considerate, compassion, kind, being thoughtful etc etc etc... culture differences do change the perpesctive. However, if we can learn from others, why not? We quote countires such as Japan, Germany, France, Italy, America, Australia, if we can pick up the positive behaviour of thse people, we would improve. It will probably take generations for people to change. But I think it is OK.
Maybe we can compare ourselves.
It will be good to know, have we changed?
Graciousness includes, caring, considerate, compassion, kind, being thoughtful etc etc etc... culture differences do change the perpesctive. However, if we can learn from others, why not? We quote countires such as Japan, Germany, France, Italy, America, Australia, if we can pick up the positive behaviour of thse people, we would improve. It will probably take generations for people to change. But I think it is OK.
Maybe we can compare ourselves.
It will be good to know, have we changed?
Yappy
Senior Member
U are right.
Mindset takes donkey years to change. But it must starts somewhere.
Chinese saying "The first step in the thousand steps is the most difficult to do"
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Yappy
Senior Member
COME ON LAH! WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEING....
Gracious is not looking at what and how other people is doing, but it's ME.
"Huh?! ME?"
"YES! ME!!!"
Gracious starts from ME!
U are right....
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