Extremely Disappointed With A Particular Clubsnapper!

[render]

Hello my dearest!
Here's MR ZHILIANG'S REPLY WHO GOT BOMBARDED LATER TOO. MUHAHAHA. http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2894539#post2894539

Dear all,

There are always 2 sides of a coin and faces of people we dont see and hope not to see. There are times when we think a reply to an accusation is not necessary, and a utter waste of time. There are times when we feel that holding our silence and peace is more precious than going to the gallows. "Regarding Render III"??? Were there "Regarding Render I or II"? Well, certainly a bait to start my own thread to at least say my own story out?

Well, before i begin, i will have to set my own side of my story out in a way which happened to me on my side. Have you watched Flags Of Our Fathers and Letters From Iwo Jima? I am recreating something along that sense but perhaps in this instance, its 2 movies made from 2 different directors.

1. First of all as i noticed a clubsnapper mentioning that there is no signing of black and white between the client and the agent / agency (was there a registered one?).

2. Days before the actual shoot, we agreed over MSN with a 50% deposit and a 50% upfront payment to the model on the day of that shoot. From some advices also from clubsnappers which i will decline to name, i am adviced from their past bad experiences to ask the agency whether we can agree on a 25% deposit and a 75% upfront payment to the model on that actual shoot. And i did just that, reminding everyone that i asked the agent politely. What i had in return was a scolding and a nasty advice about testing her patience. A nasty advice that contains explicit words that i believed should not be uttered in these dealings between clients and agency.

3. Some cooling down done after i reminded her that all i did was ask politely. And credit given to Render, she cooled down. We stick by the 50/50 arrangement. At that point of time, fellow clubsnappers were saying that i should drop this shoot as it would not make sense with the relationships already strained. And besides that, no agency, regardless how big should be that hostile in their business discussions. Render went on to make a very valid point on how the model has already agreed and set aside the time and its going to be very unfair to her. Thinking of all that, i agreed and feel that that is only the right thing i can do.

4. Instead of the agreed friday deposit payment, due to my goodwill, i decided to deposit the money into her account on Thursday night. It was done via UOB cash deposit and the deposit was not a fund transfer, but rather cash transferred in thru her account number. From experiences, transfer done this way, usually gets through immediately without any hassle. Instead, Render checked her account and told me that her bank amount stays the same. I was shocked, what now???? I was asked to produce an image of the receipt that comes together with the transaction which i duly obliged. Still her general conviction was that i did not pay up. I had to tell her later on that i am going to go straight to the bank to check (in fact i made a call to the bank operators at 2 am. just to clear up the problem with assurances that the amount is definitely in her account), for her to actually realise.....

5. Credit to Render again, on Friday she came back to me to clear that she has gotten the money. So good... Wow, the money is all of a sudden "in the account" again. Was it a misunderstanding or something else...? I leave it to your imagination...

6. Shoot on actual day went well and i paid up the other 50%. Model asked for her pictures to be sent to her and i agreed. We exchanged MSN addresses. I asked too, if there are future opportunities, should i contact the agency straight or to the model herself. Her answer was as vague because she mentioned that both alternatives are fine for her. Well thinking back, that was politically correct.

7. Repeated requests from both agency and model to send them the pictures taken. Communications with the model through MSN is because of this arrangement. A question raised during this time to the model was whether she would be free for shoots the next month. A reminder that this is not even an arrangement for an actual shoot bypassing the agency. Scenario being model is currently at the agent's house and agent chanced upon the MSN messages. Model tells me immediately that her agent is reading this message and she feels that anything, i should go through the agent, again very politically correct. I being honest said something along this line, "No offence intended, but i am not thinking of going through Render again due to the bad experiences i have encountered, and if that is so, i would rather not shoot at all." This was my choice.

8. Agent turned nasty immediately and threatened me with violation of her laws which we didnt even sign. Words like F*** you were uttered immediately and it even went personal. Personal things like "you photo shoot sucks" were mentioned. So pray tell me Render, why were you begging for me to send you "sucky photos"? I am a amateur in photography. And i pay for shoots without having the need for agency to tell me how sucky i am. Perhaps all of you out there can imagine going to Sakae Sushi to buy yourself a dinner, and having the manager over there tell you, that the way you eat sushis is plain sucky and disgusting.

9. I always feel (again they are my own opinions) that no one or agent or agency can think themselves too high up, too untouchables that they can blast anyone they like. Yes i mentioned that i have nothing to lose. Because for me, if there are no Azure Modelling, there are always countless others out there. I made my choice never to go through them again, and these are my opinions that i am entittled to.

I rest my case.

 

[render]

And here is your's dearest reply!

Big yawns! Holla all! Render back in action!
Damn, just woke up. so tired!
And i guess the zhiliang have prolly been slapped to wake up and face the reality.

Look.

If u are speaking about ridiculous craps that is irrelevant and pointless,
trying all means to ruin my reputation while i'm merely quoting facts about u,

Here goes:

1. u said there was no signing of black and white right?
Yea! I totally agree with u.
So i should do that from today onwards ya? Bullshits.
Look here. Clubsnap practices credibility and reliability.
And normally between the photographers, models or even myself,
we trust one another. Cuz i've been here for 2 years odd already.
But where were u?
People noe me & vice versa. I do not see it necessary to practice that.
Cuz it never did happened
regarding about this kinda nonsensical case
of photographers trying to leech models from me.
In fact I thought it would never happen.
Until you came along.
CUZ OF THE WORD TRUST i did not ask for a black and white.
And to think u AGREED that you would not leech.
WHAT HAPPENED ABOUT THE TRUST?

2. Again, Render has got render's policy.
People have got theirs.
It doesnt bother about me how people work. I love the way i work.
And yet, people still chose to work with me.
So it's really up to u whether u choose to work with me or not.
But once u have approached to work with me,
confirmed my model, made her keep herself free on a sunday and all.
It's extremely IRRESPONSIBLE to ask to cancel the shoot.
Who are u to ask a model keep herself free on that day
and she had prolly declined or her other assignments just for u?
Hello, as much as u are very busy,
look at the events, shows & shoots etc. who are doing them?
MODELS. They are as busy too!
And having the agreement of 50%, it's u who have agreed to it.
When I asked, how much u wanna deposit? U said, it's really up to me.
So when we both agreed,
the very next day u said the policy gonna change with no other reasons?
I'm afraid Render doesn't accept that sort of crap.

4 & 5.
Wake up please.
Would anybody be so retarded to actually claim
that she have yet to receive the money on the very day u transferred
just because she wanna "eat: your money.
But crazily, the very next day she would admit
that she have already received the money?
Why don't she just insist that she never did receive forever? joke.
This must be the best joke I've ever seen. Look again,
U transferred to me in the midnight, I did look into my account.
And the very fact that I did not receive is a fact indeed.
I too panicked, cuz i didnt noe what happened.
And If u were doubting me,
Who noes if u were the one who did not transfer
and waited till the next day to transfer so that U could place the fault on me?
Of cuz I asked for evidence. Luckily I did received the next day. *phew*
And u noe about credibility?
I havent been told about "eating" anybody's money since 2 yrs ago. What say u?
Since u love to ask around clubsnappers. Then ask if i did


6. U noe what? If u have agreed to have the pics sent,
whether is it a paid shoot or not, it's about an agreement again.
That's really up to u whether to show that u are reliable or not.
And something I can let u know, if u were to send the pictures to the models,
they would definitely do even better as the pics would be theirs as well!
Also, they could look at their faults and try to improve on it.
So what do u lose?
U prolly gain a better model for your next shoot!

Also, why my model have agreed to exchange msn, is because she is only keen in the pictures. And if u think that she is keen in you, or keen to betray me by shooting with u directly without me, again, WAKE UP!

Please make it clear. What when u asked if u could go through her directly for shoots, she replied in vague?

Wake up again.

This what i heard from my model personally, and it seemed like it is.
Since it did really happen.

Zhiliang: "Eh winnie can i shoot u next time and don't go through Render?"
Winnie: "huh, why lehs. Cannot la.
Must go though her. I'm her model ma. She would be angry."
Zhiliang: "Huh, dun wan la. Render very fierce lehs. And she commissions."
Winnie: "Orh, then nevermind lo, U shoot me then I pass her the commission.
I will still let her know."
Zhiliang:" Huh, see how lo.."

And the next conversation was:
Zhiliang: "Eh can you charge me cheaper for the next shoot?"

See? it is obvious that the fact that he don't wanna go through me,
Is that he don't wan me to commission, so that he can pay the model lesser.
And as seen, many clubsnappers have agreed that commissioning of the model,
is between the model and the agent. It does not concern the client.
Cuz they are asked to pay an agreeable amount of sum,
then it's left up to the agent and the model already.
With your sum of money, i commissioned.
But i still provided u with a perfect model.
Not like as if, after i commissioned,
the model is left with only a leg or a hand short?

7. The fact as seen is that u were bypassing me for another shoot
that u would be organizing with MY MODEL.
Who wouldn't I be angry? Tell me? Who won't?
If i get all my models to work under me,
but I allow people to leech my models
THROUGH THE ASSIGNMENTS THAT I'VE GIVEN.
look, why don't i be a charity organization instead?
"FREE MODELS TO TAKE"

8. Hohoho.. I was pissed,
and wanted to call the MR ZHILIANG up to talk about this dispute.
But the fact that I was already extremely boiling,
and that he was too guilty to answer the phone,
I'm sure u noe what happened? Yea lo, volcanic mountain. hohoho.
Look, i wouldn't have been asking for the pics,
if the model dint get me to ask from u.
The pics sucks, and that is the fact.
But my model still look good, and she loves it.
So whats wrong with asking for more? And it's u who asked for my opinion.
Each time u sent, u asked how is it? So it sucked. I said. Whats wrong?
If u cant take criticisms, then don't ask. As simple as that.

9. Azure models is set up,
to provide u freelance models which many photographers are yearning to shoot.
And the reason why I'm here is to help them to arrange a shoot with these models,
with MUCH LOWER RATES.
My agency works with flexibility.
Instead of going for organized group shoots,
which most might not like the idea of shooting with strangers,
They can now go to me for individual shoot with their FAVOURITE model
or even organise a group shoot within themselves.

I'm very very sure even if u do go to other model agencies,
THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE
U WITH SUCH QUALITY MODELS WITH MY RATE.
And that's why mine is a freelance agency.
AND STILL, ITS NOT SET UP WITH SO MUCH EFFORT GATHERING HOT MODELS,
JUST FOR U TO LEECH THEM.

Well, I forgive him for coming up with such ridiculous crap post.
Because of his failure in english as he couldn't understand what I was explaining.
And also, Him being still asleep. I guess he never does wake up.
Even when he is shooting


I THANK ALL OF U FOR AGREEING WITH ME.

I'm off for a shoot later~ Damn, i wasted half an hour on this post.
I just woke up, and i thought my post is much better than his still. MUHAHAHAHA.

 

[orislee]

hey relax....
i suggest u to buy a cage to lock your models.. wahahahha..kidding.

Anyway, if you have contract with your models, maybe you would want to sue her and she shall pay you back the amount stated in the contract. For a photoshoot to take place, i think the model also needs to be there.....

if the model refused to go (that's what we called loyalty and ethical), then the Zhiliang won't have chance to shoot her again and again. As an agency, I strongly advise you to fire this model, since she is not pro enough. Of course the photographer is not pro too, maybe "Chee hong" to know girls somemore.

all the best, and good luck!

 

[snowspeeder]

Honor and integrity are rare commodities these days, even amongst pple we know. Well, that's how you get to know people better, and that's what contracts and lawyers are for.

 

[MrBig]

I hate people like that...;(

Can intro yr models to me

they CHIO or not?

 

[compro_1975]

can CS be a better place? everything back in the 02' can nv be found again:cry: ...

i think he is just wanting a cheaper option. my advise: dun do paid shoot if u are dun hav money... me too, although i know some models, i dun request for any cheaper paid shoot(minus the commission to the middle person) if they belong to any agency... just pray for the day they come out of the agency and u can shoot all u want, it is how much u are willing to pay that comes into picture. till now, if i want to shoot, i would see if i got the power to do, photography is an expensive hobby i should say

stay cheerful TS and better things would come... Make this place as friendly as it started

 

[ortega]

little girls and little boys, don't fight lah

go out together and have a drink and party together
make more friends and have fun instead.

you still have a long way to go

 

[sigg]

life still goes on.............

 

[deckard]

kopithiam why so nasty?

sooner or later there will be a different section "CS small claims and tribunals"

moderater can be the judge and we be the jury. :think: ;p

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

kopithiam why so nasty?

sooner or later there will be a different section "CS small claims and tribunals"

moderater can be the judge and we be the jury. :think: ;p

no lah... Admin is the judge, Moderators are the lawyers, and Superusers are the jury... then u guys just sit around enjoy the slashing... :thumbsup:

 

[Darren]

We are closing off this thread and the related thread created by zhiliang.

Please settle this outside of the forums. Future threads on this issue will be deleted without notice.