TrailsofLife
Senior Member
Can CS help us in this issue? Can fellow members stop offering to those ridiculous budget?
Can we put a stop to "looking for cheap wedding photographer"?
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Del_CtrlnoAlt
Senior Member
u sure get alot of retaliation lor... esp like a girl we know, who goes on hunting those who told her off... now she is the pontaniak or hantu of CSers...
But if i was to suggest, i think if there is a moderator willing to take up the challenge, just delete those threads who are asking for free/cheap photography, regardless of reasons. And also delete those threads who are offering as well...
To top it off with a easier note, just stop all the services threads... we can do it like those 1 liner classified...
Photographers needed, please call 91234567 for more details.
whoever interested call, then those who is not, dun even know wats going on behind their backs.
KNIGHT ONG
Senior Member
It is a free trade .. some newbie need to start somewhere and here is their opportunity to offer and see whether they are up to their mark before they proceed further.
You pay for what you get .. it is not only just wedding photography alone .. they are many more likes events, ROM etc etc ..
Those interest needs apply .. those not interest let it be and passed.
Members are not ALL on equal footing .. they vary accordingly to their skills level. Some do offers to choose for charity shoot which are more fulfilling then just shooting for free without a purpose.
Long story cut short .. judge for yourself and see whether it is worth to shoot at that price which can be low or reasonable enough for you to take up the offer. Not all here are 'earning' as full time, part timer do need some cash flow to fund their equipment as well.
hmmmmnnnnn .. enough said ? :bsmilie:
You pay for what you get .. it is not only just wedding photography alone .. they are many more likes events, ROM etc etc ..
Those interest needs apply .. those not interest let it be and passed.
Members are not ALL on equal footing .. they vary accordingly to their skills level. Some do offers to choose for charity shoot which are more fulfilling then just shooting for free without a purpose.
Long story cut short .. judge for yourself and see whether it is worth to shoot at that price which can be low or reasonable enough for you to take up the offer. Not all here are 'earning' as full time, part timer do need some cash flow to fund their equipment as well.
hmmmmnnnnn .. enough said ? :bsmilie:
Why should fellow members "stop offering to those ridiculous budget"?
blazer_workz
Senior Member
It is a free trade .. some newbie need to start somewhere and here is their opportunity to offer and see whether they are up to their mark before they proceed further.
You pay for what you get .. it is not only just wedding photography alone .. they are many more likes events, ROM etc etc ..
Those interest needs apply .. those not interest let it be and passed.
Members are not ALL on equal footing .. they vary accordingly to their skills level. Some do offers to choose for charity shoot which are more fulfilling then just shooting for free without a purpose.
Long story cut short .. judge for yourself and see whether it is worth to shoot at that price which can be low or reasonable enough for you to take up the offer. Not all here are 'earning' as full time, part timer do need some cash flow to fund their equipment as well.
hmmmmnnnnn .. enough said ? :bsmilie:
well said! :thumbsup:
2 photogs of equal standard, 1 full time, 1 part time, full time need more money than part time..
its either CS close(moderator) or close CS(you)..
william_wwong
Member
I have seen your gallery; you have nice pictures.
I am curious on why you started this thread. Are you pressured into posting because of the stiff competition from good wedding photographers (maybe hobbists?) who are charging less than you do?
IMHO, dun tink it's fair to remove such threads... some couples dun want to spend so much on wedding photog cos they can't afford too high prices or don't place high priority on wedding pics.
As for those who charge cheap... what's wrong? This is a competitive world and with digital, photography does get easier. Good or bad.. hmm, it's subjective.
If the pros are really good, they should still keep their own group of clients even with their standard or higher prices. If amateurs charge cheap, then of cos the couple have to bear whatever consequences. Seriously, there are some who really won't mind the final outcome. And there are some amateurs who do take decent shots!
As for those who charge cheap... what's wrong? This is a competitive world and with digital, photography does get easier. Good or bad.. hmm, it's subjective.
If the pros are really good, they should still keep their own group of clients even with their standard or higher prices. If amateurs charge cheap, then of cos the couple have to bear whatever consequences. Seriously, there are some who really won't mind the final outcome. And there are some amateurs who do take decent shots!
KNIGHT ONG
Senior Member
That apply to everywhere .. you ask for quotations and naturely you choose to buy from the lowest unless you can justify the higher price or wavier of competition as in the biz.
No right or wrong answers ..
"No" - this is a ridiculous request.
Why should CS or other members help in those "ridiculous budget" that is deem by you or others? It is a fair market and some members may want to take up the offer. Those who do not, should not be bother by it. Unless ... you are fearing the "heat" of those "ridiculous budget".
Gotta agree. The definition of cheap will make it very difficult to enforce this. Some photogs and I have talked about this before but could not come up with a common pricing standard that was appreciable to anyone.
For example, we raised the issue on having a base $200/hr rate as the base market rate, but for the high end photogs, $2K for a 10 hr wedding day is so low that the base price makes no difference to them and there was little incentive for them to participate or group together as an organization. For the emerging photogs, the 2k mark is so high that it would be really difficult to even start out. So no matter what rates we choose we cannot cater to the diverse market.
What i've come to find is that when a photog starts low, it's not normally because they want to start low but because they lack business education. As such several photogs such as Gilbertchua have been really working hard educating new photogrpahers on the importance running the wedding photography as a business and I am in the midst of putting together some Business of Wedding Photography seminars for next year with some guests speakers etc, and hopefully this will help to lift the market instead.
Del_CtrlnoAlt
Senior Member
somehow, educate the photographers on pricing strategy, but neglecting to educate the consumer on these may end up the same way...
but nevertheless... it will give those who wanna remain in the market more insight and understanding of how the system works.
quite hard to educate consumer, from the consumer POV, "you already have a camera and you just need to snap the photos. Snapping doesn't incur extra charges, so why are you charging me so much to press the shutter?" They don't realise they are paying for services rendered and skills involved.
Need to step in before the discussion becomes too heated (and personal - please keep your comment to the issue at hand and not the member(s) who brought this up or are on the other side of the fence).
As far as possible, we have tried to make the transaction-based forums as "free-market" as possible meaning it depends on the willing seller/willing buyer to negotiate among themselves on an appropriate level of compensation in exchange for goods or services.
Having said that, we also recognise that there is an increasing trend of people coming in here looking for "affordable" photographer services, and giving the impression that the photographers here are "exploited". And, the interesting thing is that there are members in here who are willing to provide their services at a rate which may seem miserly to others - perhaps due to lack of knowledge of what they should charge vs what they could charge which is in turn due to a lack of confidence or capability to judge their skills that they have attained.
On the skills and accreditation level, that is probably too high a goal to achieve within the forums as it requires industry participation, but at our level here, we can do our best to educate our fellow members what to charge commensurate to their skills and capabilities to deliver what is required.
Thus, and in response to another thread in FAQ to have some discussion on the Photography business, we shall look into opening a forum to do just that - to provide an avenue for members to ask and share on happenings in the photography industry. The overall aim of this new forum (should it be created) would be to raise the overall awareness of the photography industry and hopefully set some indications (I hesitate to call them guidelines or rules) on how one should go about evaluating their capabilities, skills and deliverables to be able to charge accordingly.
In addition, we will add to the guidelines for posting in Services (bearing in mind that the guidelines will cut both ways - members asking for "offers" may still do so after reading the guidelines, while members who are "offended" by the request may have their ability to respond curtailed.) We will also look into making posting in Services form-based so that it is easier to search and the guidelines have to be agreed to before creating a new thread (similiar to the Buy & Sell forums).
However, members need to be aware that there is a free market outside of ClubSNAP - photographers can still be engaged for low rates regardless of whether they are ClubSNAP members or not. But we can do our part to raise awareness.
There are many examples out there - eg, the local accounting firm charging $1000 for auditing a company's accounts and the larger firms charging 10-100x more for essentially the same thing.
As far as possible, we have tried to make the transaction-based forums as "free-market" as possible meaning it depends on the willing seller/willing buyer to negotiate among themselves on an appropriate level of compensation in exchange for goods or services.
Having said that, we also recognise that there is an increasing trend of people coming in here looking for "affordable" photographer services, and giving the impression that the photographers here are "exploited". And, the interesting thing is that there are members in here who are willing to provide their services at a rate which may seem miserly to others - perhaps due to lack of knowledge of what they should charge vs what they could charge which is in turn due to a lack of confidence or capability to judge their skills that they have attained.
On the skills and accreditation level, that is probably too high a goal to achieve within the forums as it requires industry participation, but at our level here, we can do our best to educate our fellow members what to charge commensurate to their skills and capabilities to deliver what is required.
Thus, and in response to another thread in FAQ to have some discussion on the Photography business, we shall look into opening a forum to do just that - to provide an avenue for members to ask and share on happenings in the photography industry. The overall aim of this new forum (should it be created) would be to raise the overall awareness of the photography industry and hopefully set some indications (I hesitate to call them guidelines or rules) on how one should go about evaluating their capabilities, skills and deliverables to be able to charge accordingly.
In addition, we will add to the guidelines for posting in Services (bearing in mind that the guidelines will cut both ways - members asking for "offers" may still do so after reading the guidelines, while members who are "offended" by the request may have their ability to respond curtailed.) We will also look into making posting in Services form-based so that it is easier to search and the guidelines have to be agreed to before creating a new thread (similiar to the Buy & Sell forums).
However, members need to be aware that there is a free market outside of ClubSNAP - photographers can still be engaged for low rates regardless of whether they are ClubSNAP members or not. But we can do our part to raise awareness.
There are many examples out there - eg, the local accounting firm charging $1000 for auditing a company's accounts and the larger firms charging 10-100x more for essentially the same thing.
TrailsofLife
Senior Member
Hi Darren,
Understand the free market part. Just seems that CS has become a easy channel for such "hunters". Which will only lower the market value of photographers and most of the time, when the deal turn bad due to bad performance or quality, will definitely give CS a bad name in the future. In fact, its already begun. A friend of mine dare not hire photographers from a particular bridal shop because he heard they use hobbyist from CS.(I can't say names here)
While we can let this problem goes on, why not the community unite and stop this. For example, any CSer who spot a post to exploit photographers, can report the thread to moderators so moderators can react by removing the thread.
Last but not least, it is only through unity that we can uphold and improve the standard and market value of working photographers in Singapore. Dun forget CS started because afew of you united...and see how CS grew.
Just wanna add, I find registering once, got their deal and disappear, not a good idea. CS has already encounter such "terrorist" and some still come back in different nick for further troubling. Just give CS admin more thing to do.
TrailsofLife
Senior Member
Try work in 1 assignment and see if those "budget" is worth your effort, dun forget the post process time you gonna spend, shopping for albums and prints. The budget will make a photographer look like a foreigner worker.
TrailsofLife
Senior Member
TrailsofLife
Senior Member
No, just wanna help the industry. My customer dun come from here.
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