littleweddingday
New Member
Alright guys! Thanks for all the contributions! Learned immensely from all you guys! 
buying a RF
- Thread starter littleweddingday
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May i ask what is the impact or difference of a 1x and a .52x viewer? any difference or difficulties in focusing? thanks!
robertcapa
New Member
Jokes aside.. thought anyone who are looking to buy a rangefinder could do with some reading materials.
1. Stephen Grandy maintains a good set of articles on the various camera profiles which i believe can be helpful - you can look up on them here http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm. In my opinion, a very good source for information on the various rf cameras.
2. Another page which gives a lot information is Karen Nakamura's. http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/buying.html. Speaks of her personal experiences with different classic cameras not just limited to rf. A write-up on leica lenses here http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/Lens-LSM.html
3. http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/leicaM.html - erwin puts website on rf and leica cameras
4. Leica price guide here http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/a.htm
5. www.rangefinderforum.com is a forum dedicated to rf
6. www.hklfc.com is another forum dedicated to rf in hong kong
7. www.photo.net has a leica & rangefinder section in their forum
8. www.photo.net/gc is the classified ads section where you may find some rf stuff
9. Andrew Nemeth maintains a Leica FAQ here http://nemeng.com/leica/
10. http://www.leicagallery.com/rarityratingslenses.htm kbcamera's rarity ratings for leica lenses
11. http://www.forloren.dk/lbf/leica_lens_serial.htm leica lens serial number and year of production
12. http://www.sherrykrauter.com/ where you may want to send your rf for cla
13. LHSA http://www.lhsa.org/
14. rangefindermag http://www.rangefindermag.com/index2.tml
1. Stephen Grandy maintains a good set of articles on the various camera profiles which i believe can be helpful - you can look up on them here http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm. In my opinion, a very good source for information on the various rf cameras.
2. Another page which gives a lot information is Karen Nakamura's. http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/buying.html. Speaks of her personal experiences with different classic cameras not just limited to rf. A write-up on leica lenses here http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/Lens-LSM.html
3. http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/leicaM.html - erwin puts website on rf and leica cameras
4. Leica price guide here http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/a.htm
5. www.rangefinderforum.com is a forum dedicated to rf
6. www.hklfc.com is another forum dedicated to rf in hong kong
7. www.photo.net has a leica & rangefinder section in their forum
8. www.photo.net/gc is the classified ads section where you may find some rf stuff
9. Andrew Nemeth maintains a Leica FAQ here http://nemeng.com/leica/
10. http://www.leicagallery.com/rarityratingslenses.htm kbcamera's rarity ratings for leica lenses
11. http://www.forloren.dk/lbf/leica_lens_serial.htm leica lens serial number and year of production
12. http://www.sherrykrauter.com/ where you may want to send your rf for cla
13. LHSA http://www.lhsa.org/
14. rangefindermag http://www.rangefindermag.com/index2.tml
Hi, I'm a newbee to RF. i used to use a small dc, like to take photos very much, but somehow feel that with dc, i tends to take a lot of pictures avariciously, anyway it's free and easy, even not well taken i can still ps them.... i end up spending a lot of time PSing my photos. but looking at the amount of photos that i have taken, i wouldn't have the time to ps them all, i would rather spend 5h on street taking pics than 5hs infront of computer... many of them become trash that i won't want to look again... recently, i have got an idea of getting a new camera, the first thing in mind was a dslr. so i read a lot reviews about the models and lenses, find there is no end to gd equipment... i started to ask myself, is that what i really need? i think i like to observe buildings and people around me, the kind of photography experience i desire is not shooting bird with telelens, nor insects with macro lens, nor action... what i want is just a compact camera that i can carry it with me all the time and allows me to shoot everyday things that i find appealing. so eventually i arrive at RF, and go back to film. i want to force myself to think b4 taking, and go back to the pure feeling of photography... still, i'm a newbee, hope you guys can really help me to find a right rf. i have a very tight badget, probably below 200. read that russian ones are cheap? and yashica's too? should I get them or there are other options? and where to buy them in singapore? please give me some advises, really appreciated! thanks!
With a 1x viewfinder(VF), it's easier to focus at 50mm than a .52x VF. Reason being, things are magnified at 1x, where with .52x things become smaller when seeing through the VF. So it's slightly "different".
That being said, if 50mm is the furtherest you shoot, then go for the R4 with the .52x, as from experience, people rarely shoot longer than 50mm with RF. Not that you will not be able to use the 75mm & 90mm with R4. You STILL CAN use 75mm & 90mm with R4, just that you DO NOT HAVE the frameline. The camera still fire and you still can focus with the camera.
As for difficulty in focusing, it's just getting used to the RF focusing and the light condition and "vertical lines" that you are focusing on. It's just getting used to. Most of my customers after spending 30min using the cameras, get used to the focusing and loved it.
It's a different kind of photo taking experience where you get to appreciate the surrounding more than putting your eye through the VF and compose that picture.
When I was using the SLR few years back, I get to engross in looking through the VF, focus, zoom, compose things. I find that my subject tend to shun away from me. I sort of realised that I myself will shun away from people who point zoom lenses at me too. And using a SLR, it's takes pretty long to focus and zoom a well composed shot reason being the focusing ring on the SLR is big and needs a few turns just to get in focus. In the end, I got frustrated and use my Olympus mui point and shoot for all my travel photography. It's MUCH MUCH lighter, I don't even have to bring a bag along and I get to enjoy my holidays more.... Without to worry whether anyone will steal my camera. If they do, I will ask them to rewind the film and leave my film behind....
All my pictures taken with the fix focal length point and shoot turn out with more charisma than the DSLR, because, I take time to see the subject and get myself imerse in the surrounding before taking it to my eye level and press the shutter. That experience brings me more joy in travel photography than lugging around heavy gears along with me.
Having said that the point and shoot has it's limitation, despite having a very sharp 35mm f2.8 lens. I can't control the out-of-focus area. Everything I take turn out sharp.
Recently I took my R3M and 40mm/f1.4 for a trip to Japan. I didn't bring a bag, just a case to protect the camera body. I must say, it's the best travel companion I have had in so many years! I don't have to lug around a bag and I still can take pretty well composed shots. Some pics of the trip can be found here .
For me, most of the shots taken in travel photography is at the 35mm to 40mm range. If you want a more interesting perspective (in markets, in door) then a 15mm or 21mm will be excellent!
Just to share some of my travel photo taking experience. In short, know what you want to achieve before buying a camera. Don't spend on gears that you do not need. And don't follow blindly on magazines and reports on the latest gears. Afterall, taking pictures is just to record the memories you had. If you go to a place, spend most of the time fiddling the gears and don't enjoy the experience and no recollection of the place... where's the joy?
Afterall, taking pictures is just to record the memories you had. If you go to a place, spend most of the time fiddling the gears and don't enjoy the experience and no recollection of the place... where's the joy?
I like your thoughts on travel photography....very true indeed. I do find myself capturing my travel memories better with my simple PnS digicam mainly because it is more responsive and less obstrusive. However, to indulge my interests in landscape photography when travelling, that's when I will fiddle with my DSLR.
Back to the thread, I've just started my RF experience with a couple of old RF cams bought from eBay and I am loving it. Perhaps the TS may considering trying out with Yashica GSN or the Canonet GIII, touted by most as the "poor man's Leica".
As for Chiif, your threads and pics have certainly opened my eyes to RF photography and if I can't save up enough to buy a Leica, I will probably pay you a visit when I am back in Singapore.
Cheers.
I just rekindled my dedication back to the RF. All my DSLR gears are going to the B&S.:bsmilie:
I'm going back because the RF gives me something a DSLR cannot give me. With a RF, I feel I'm in the picture. I feel and think more. Whereas when I'm shooting with a DSLR, it becomes a workflow to me. Less emotions into it. Lots of hours PSing. I would rather spend that time admiring the pictures I take.
DSLR -> RF = 5kg or more -> 1kg or less (500g or less)
I'm not missing the autofocus anytime soon.
I'm going back because the RF gives me something a DSLR cannot give me. With a RF, I feel I'm in the picture. I feel and think more. Whereas when I'm shooting with a DSLR, it becomes a workflow to me. Less emotions into it. Lots of hours PSing. I would rather spend that time admiring the pictures I take.
DSLR -> RF = 5kg or more -> 1kg or less (500g or less)
I'm not missing the autofocus anytime soon.
With your budget, i think you can effectively rule out any interchangable lens RF cameras. Even if u get a zorki and a LTM lens, its kinda pushing the budget especially if u send it for CLA. You may get a good condition russian cam with lens for 200 bucks on rare occasions when ppl are just clearing their cabinets but not all the time. A yashica GSN will appear more frequently and if you are lucky, the meter may still be working and the 50 f1.7 lens provides more than enough light for most occasions.
The links robertcapa provided have all the info u need about getting an RF, esp the cameraquest page.
centurion_sg
New Member
Hi, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but if you had considered a DSLR system (body, lens, flash, tripod, etc) then you probably can afford a new RF that costs more than $200 :bsmilie:
As for cheap RFs, I believe the rest gave alot of info already on the old yet usable RFs. But I can tell you that you need to try them out first. When I first borrowed a Yashica Electro from my friend, I was quite disappointed with the focusing patch, it was small and blurry. If I did not compare it with a new Bessa, I might have just given up on RFs :sweat:
As for cheap RFs, I believe the rest gave alot of info already on the old yet usable RFs. But I can tell you that you need to try them out first. When I first borrowed a Yashica Electro from my friend, I was quite disappointed with the focusing patch, it was small and blurry. If I did not compare it with a new Bessa, I might have just given up on RFs :sweat:
littleweddingday
New Member
Yeah.. I think you are spot on.. I was thinking of getting a cheap russian RF to try out.. But after talking to you guys, i will save harder and get a Bessa.. But that is of coz after trying the camera out with Chiif..
robertcapa
New Member
Yeah.. I think you are spot on.. I was thinking of getting a cheap russian RF to try out.. But after talking to you guys, i will save harder and get a Bessa.. But that is of coz after trying the camera out with Chiif..
good for you...
don't look down on the bessa.. you may be surprised how good the quality is cosina. i bought a heliar 50mm recently.. and all i can say is wow... solid..
OK. Tight budget can also enjoy the joy of RF photography. But have to stretch a little lah... $200 is a little too tight.
Yashica RF are fixed lens, superb shutter, so quiet that sometimes you don't even realised you have pressed the shutter.
You missed the boat by 2 weeks. 2 excellent Yashicas were on sale by Clubgrit sometime back...If you can take a little risk, you can seach ebay (some people call it Evil Bay...) there are many people from Ukraine selling such stuff. Of cos, SOME of these people are like our "sungie road" peddlers, who sell cameras without knowing what they are selling. You can almost get one copy of FED 2/3/5 for about SGD65 including shipping. BUT if you are picky and expect the quality to be like Leica, Nikon or Canon RF, then don't bother. I personally don't mind using those russians as I normally expect 1/60, 1/125. 1/250 to work AND the shutter curtain do not have any light leak. Once it shoots at these 3 shutter speeds, to me, it's adequate. Then I will use my CV screw mount lens and shoot with it. If the shutter speed at that 3 speeds works well, I can practically cover everything with a f2.5 to f16 lens. So with my 35mm/f2.5 classic and a FED 2, 3 or 5 body will be a CHEAP and NICE combi (I won't say GOOD cause at $65, things do break down often). You can try to post on the B&S asking anyone willing to let go of a 35/f2.5 classic at a price you can afford. I am sure there are some good samaritan willing to sell off their 35mm/f2.5 to you.
Alternatively, you can scout around at the www.rangefinderforum.com at the classified for any FEDs or Zorki selling. There, people are photographers, so the condition of the body is generally better. But do expect to pay slightly higher as they would have CLA'ed the bodies. Check out Karen Nakamura's & Stephen Gandy's web site. She is one excellent lady who writes so extensively on classic cameras. From there, you can find for yourself which camera you should look out for.
Alternatively, you can go down to Sungie Road... I heard someone who picked up a S$10 Zorki and works like a charm... well, that takes some luck and experience in choosing a RF from there. Not frequent you can find the russians lying around. You either get a gem or a trash.
Having said all these, these cameras do not have light meter on them, so, either you need to sharpen your mental exposure metering using your eyes as sensor or use a digi-cam for metering. But shooting with ISO400 or B&W is pretty easy to get a nicely exposed picture most of the time.
Good and fun photography do not have to spend lots of money. Some of my favourite pictures were taken with those disposable cameras. Those plastic lens disposable has very sharp, f11 lens and perfect for day street shots! Picture taken are tack sharp! I do have a Canon D60 which I only use it for product shot. I hardly bring it out to shoot out door because (1) it's too bulky. (2) with 1.5 crop factor it's "almost impossible to shoot" using my 35mm manual Nikon AI lens. I prefer to shoot wide and fullframe. And by the time I fiddle with the white balance and aperture and shutter speed, I got no mode to shoot anymore. :bsmilie:
I brought out my FED 3 for a spin at Ikea at the cafetreria where the kids play. Using a 21mm, had so much fun shooting kids playing. It would be ideal with the 15mm as one practically no need to focus at 2m and beyond. Most of the pics turn out OK indoor with a ISO400 & 1/60 at f4. Anyway, the shop developing your pictures have auto-color which will compensate for any under or over exposed shots.
Having said all these, you don't need a big budget for a camera body to enjoy RF. A good lens is important. Check out the Alternative Photography sub forum here in clubsnap. Plenty of nice pictures taken with $20, $40 cameras.
To me, a good picture must have soul. The photographer must be able to immerse himself into the environment where he wants to show or tell a story to others. The camera is just a tool to translate his thought and what he sees into a media to be shared with others. The media be it print/digital/slide/handphone it doesn't matter. Most importantly, when the viewer sees the output, he/she must feel the emotion the photographer is trying to portray or understand what the photographer is trying to show.
alternatve
Senior Member
Yeah.. I think you are spot on.. I was thinking of getting a cheap russian RF to try out.. But after talking to you guys, i will save harder and get a Bessa.. But that is of coz after trying the camera out with Chiif..
Well, it's still possible if you get one from Singapore. You can be surprised about the amount lying around. But, you've got to lower your expectations a bit. You can't expect $100 worth of equipment to be as good as a $500 Bessa R.
Btw, with a budget of $200, I got a FED 3, a good camera, for around $100 and spent $120 for a CLA as well. Total cost = $220, but it's still cheap overall.
I leave it up to you. For me, Russians are exciting to use.
Leong Desmond
Senior Member
OK. Tight budget can also enjoy the joy of RF photography. But have to stretch a little lah... $200 is a little too tight.
Yashica RF are fixed lens, superb shutter, so quiet that sometimes you don't even realised you have pressed the shutter.
If you can take a little risk, you can seach ebay (some people call it Evil Bay...) there are many people from Ukraine selling such stuff. Of cos, SOME of these people are like our "sungie road" peddlers, who sell cameras without knowing what they are selling. You can almost get one copy of FED 2/3/5 for about SGD65 including shipping. BUT if you are picky and expect the quality to be like Leica, Nikon or Canon RF, then don't bother. I personally don't mind using those russians as I normally expect 1/60, 1/125. 1/250 to work AND the shutter curtain do not have any light leak. Once it shoots at these 3 shutter speeds, to me, it's adequate. Then I will use my CV screw mount lens and shoot with it. If the shutter speed at that 3 speeds works well, I can practically cover everything with a f2.5 to f16 lens. So with my 35mm/f2.5 classic and a FED 2, 3 or 5 body will be a CHEAP and NICE combi (I won't say GOOD cause at $65, things do break down often). You can try to post on the B&S asking anyone willing to let go of a 35/f2.5 classic at a price you can afford. I am sure there are some good samaritan willing to sell off their 35mm/f2.5 to you.
Alternatively, you can scout around at the www.rangefinderforum.com at the classified for any FEDs or Zorki selling. There, people are photographers, so the condition of the body is generally better. But do expect to pay slightly higher as they would have CLA'ed the bodies. Check out Karen Nakamura's & Stephen Gandy's web site. She is one excellent lady who writes so extensively on classic cameras. From there, you can find for yourself which camera you should look out for.
Alternatively, you can go down to Sungie Road... I heard someone who picked up a S$10 Zorki and works like a charm... well, that takes some luck and experience in choosing a RF from there. Not frequent you can find the russians lying around. You either get a gem or a trash.
Having said all these, these cameras do not have light meter on them, so, either you need to sharpen your mental exposure metering using your eyes as sensor or use a digi-cam for metering. But shooting with ISO400 or B&W is pretty easy to get a nicely exposed picture most of the time.
Good and fun photography do not have to spend lots of money. Some of my favourite pictures were taken with those disposable cameras. Those plastic lens disposable has very sharp, f11 lens and perfect for day street shots! Picture taken are tack sharp! I do have a Canon D60 which I only use it for product shot. I hardly bring it out to shoot out door because (1) it's too bulky. (2) with 1.5 crop factor it's "almost impossible to shoot" using my 35mm manual Nikon AI lens. I prefer to shoot wide and fullframe. And by the time I fiddle with the white balance and aperture and shutter speed, I got no mode to shoot anymore. :bsmilie:
I brought out my FED 3 for a spin at Ikea at the cafetreria where the kids play. Using a 21mm, had so much fun shooting kids playing. It would be ideal with the 15mm as one practically no need to focus at 2m and beyond. Most of the pics turn out OK indoor with a ISO400 & 1/60 at f4. Anyway, the shop developing your pictures have auto-color which will compensate for any under or over exposed shots.
Having said all these, you don't need a big budget for a camera body to enjoy RF. A good lens is important. Check out the Alternative Photography sub forum here in clubsnap. Plenty of nice pictures taken with $20, $40 cameras.
To me, a good picture must have soul. The photographer must be able to immerse himself into the environment where he wants to show or tell a story to others. The camera is just a tool to translate his thought and what he sees into a media to be shared with others. The media be it print/digital/slide/handphone it doesn't matter. Most importantly, when the viewer sees the output, he/she must feel the emotion the photographer is trying to portray or understand what the photographer is trying to show.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
haagen_dazs
New Member
contrary to the name, its not really a RF magazine at all.
i get it over here through the mail
and its mainly a whole load of mail order advertisements with few articles on photography...
Thank you guys so much, really appreciated! I am looking forward to enter the world of RF. Right now I am reading the NEW YORK INSTITUTE OF PHOTOGRAPHY text. cannot wait to get my own RF. but very uncertain about finding second hand cameras all by myself... may i ask what are the considerations and what are the things to check while trying to find a second hand RF? Thank you very much!
alternatve
Senior Member
Do you want to sell that lens seperately? Thanks.
szhoe
Member
Hi Panzer
I am now back in Sing. Lets go visit Chiff..
Me planning to acquire a Voigt..BTW,which part of Canada r u located.?
Cheers
Hello to a fellow Singaporean in Canada,
Excellent, better stock up all your camera gear while you're back in Sg. Probably KIV till I am back and meanwhile still trying out RF on my used Oly 35SP, 35RC, and Yashica GSN.
I am currently in Saskatchewan, Land of the living skies!
Cheers.
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