Buyers beware - HSMSigma

[wandollar]

Sorry to hear about your situation..sure heart pain for you..

I just hate sellers who lie or are ignorant about the product that they are selling. If you are not sure of the shutter count, then don't blatantly put a number to it. 30k and 5 k is a huge difference. The shutter count matters to some people. It would be better if there are no information about SC in the advertisement. False info is very bad!

Anyway TS, if I were you and if the shutter count bothers me so much, I would have taken the seller's offer to refund 1.7k. Yeah you lose 50 but as he said you can treat it as rent. 50 rent for 1 week, that's cheaper than rental rates out there.

 

[mogwai]

While I agree with night86mare that with no warranty promised and after a week, he's not obliged to refund you any money, I feel that he has (through falsely advertising the shutter count) dented his reputation as a seller.

What Crashout is doing is merely giving us a heads up if we ever have to deal with this seller - it's a good thing since CS doesn't have seller ratings.

Also, Crashout's comprehensive 'ranting' is very clear on the facts and allowed us to know what was misrepresented in this particular sale. His account is better composed than most of the 'ranting' about sellers/ buyers we see in 'Consumers Corner'.

Although I've only bought from CS BnS once, I've learnt many valuable lessons from these sort of threads - Crashout, I thank you for your patient explanation and I hope myself or anybody else won't miss such things like checking shutter count on the spot even when dealing a 'bargain' buy. And I'm glad you are able to get a refund at all.

 

[Canonised]

It's just the lie about the shuttercount and then charging me for 'rent'. I would not have contacted the seller if he had advertised 30k.

I think TS should not go for secondhand goods.

Personally I don't think the seller is that bad, like what TS has described him to be.

Different owners have different standard of "valuing" their gears. Like myself, I always believe that I didn't shoot that much, only on weekend. So when i was always thinking that my cam count is only about 20k, it turns out to be almost 60k.
In this case, I dont think the seller was trying to lie about this, but more like he didn't bother to go into details. It's our own duty to assess what the seller claims, and if the buyer is particular about certain claims, he should put it in the terms of the sale.

 

[ovaltinemilo]

From TS's sms, I do feel that he's handling the situation rather logically... it's really the dishonest seller who mispresented the condition of the product. This is akin to cheating, at least to me...30K and 5K is really significant...

Anyway, a word of advice, since TS has already paid for the repair, I don't think the seller is going to reimburse you anyway. A compromise has to be reached.

 

[hanqiang1011]

dust spots - you should have checked on the spot (no pun intended).

battery - i would normally write off any batteries that comes along with it and buy a new one or ask for a discount for having to buy a new one.

shutter count - that is blatant lying but what else can you about it? btw, 5D shutter can last 50k.

5D can last about 100k...

Dear all: I think let's give TS a break. He is just trying to let us know the situation going around in CS.

To TS: I guess you got to give and take sometimes, 5D is known for attracting dust, even in a dry cabinet. I think to buy a certain camera, we need to know the pros and cons of a certain model.

I think to change over a few shutter is abit wasteful to the old shutter unit as it didnt even past half its life, but I would agree with you to ask for a refund of service charges for viewfinder cleaning, but not the shutter unit.

Cheers

 

[qystan]

i think a lot of the other information you have posted is actually nothing wrong.

for example, yes, i don't agree with false advertising, but here are the facts:
1) you checked, and you didn't check shutter count, he also posted NO WARRANTY
2) technically NO WARRANTY means he doesn't have to entertain you after that
3) he is willing to give you refund less $50, i see nothing wrong with that part.

cheers.

Think you are getting the issues crossed.

No warranty and misrepresentation are completely different animals.

Stating no warranty does not give the seller a right to cheat!

 

[alcohollywood]

I bought a camera body from an oversea seller that died after 6 days. Now don't know what to do with the body.

I hope you're referring to the camera body that died :bsmilie:

In any case, I think TS was perhaps a little too trusting of the seller. I guess a suggestion would be before entering any sale as a buyer, one should make a list of checks to conduct. In this example, if the shutter count is important to the buyer but there's no software that can check the statistic reliably, then one can suggest to deal at/near CSC.

It may be troublesome and it may be even kiasu, but as TS mentioned, it's not a small sum of hard-earned money and it's an issue that clearly is important to him. Better safe than sorry, unless you have cash to splash.

I honestly think TS is a victim of misrepresentation, although such an argument will probably not hold in any official capacity. However, I think the more objective readers in this forum will agree that this is a good example to share. Hopefully people will learn from others' mistakes and avoid committing the same ones themselves.

 

[Xiao_shin]

30k and 5k.. If my maths brain is still working, it a big differences.

Ceteris paribus, a 5K shutter camera is way better than a 30k shutter camera.

 

[blaz7]

Seller most likely a merchant, for all you know, he only used it for 5k shots and to him its 5k, how much was it used before that, he may not know. Bottom line, just be more careful when buying the piece of equipment.

 

[geekbrains]

Though both the parties failed to do their part, I'd still give the benefit of doubt to the Seller. If the buyer knows that it's difficult to check the Shutter count of 5D using any software, how do you expect the seller to verify? Again, I'm not fully supporting the seller either as there's a huge difference between 5K and 30K.

I guess the seller offered a fair discount of 50$. You can try to negotiate a bit more and if you're lucky, get the money back and enjoy shooting. Second hand goods are offered with no warranty unless otherwise the Seller implies. You bought it "As Is" and should have checked it thoroughly (Checking dust spots on the sensor aint that tough) or gotten advise from people on what to check for in a second hand body.

I'm glad that you voiced out your concerns and let's wait for the seller to respond with his side of the story.

 

[chngpe01]

Please read the Terms and condition in B&S carefully. ie Buyer Beware

No judge here.

Calling the Seller a scam is rather strong accusation (in fact uncalled for), after all you got the camera that work and at best it was mis representation of the shutter count. In fact you could have even check shutter count on the spot - there are numerous post on how to check shutter count - just do a simple search and you will find: one very recent on http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6240508#post6240508. When buying used items one need to do some homework on the buyer part too.

In all fairness I do not see any scam here.

The only lessons here for ppl reading this thread is how to check a camera when buying used one. Instead of "Beware of HSMSigma" or it may work against the TS and become a "Beware when selling to threadstarter"

I will closed the thread if it goes one way and out of line.

Will wait for seller to respond.

 

[Limsgp]

If the shutter is expected to last 100k and it costs $270, so it's like $2.70 for 1k shutter count.

The shutter count was 25k more then advertised. So this works out to be buyer's lost of $67.50 "worth" of shutter count.

If seller return $67.50 to buyer..... fair?

Anyway, misrepresentation is certainty not good..

 

[liveevil]

If the shutter is expected to last 100k and it costs $270, so it's like $2.70 for 1k shutter count.

The shutter count was 25k more then advertised. So this works out to be buyer's lost of $67.50 "worth" of shutter count.

If seller return $67.50 to buyer..... fair?

Anyway, misrepresentation is certainty not good..

Haha i was thinking along that line too. But too lazy to calculate. Seller willing to return $50 seems like a "good enough" solution.

 

[knpan]

Alamak Bro, u call 30K shutter count high ? Abd u are getting a pro camdera body to use it for pro use, not for enthu use. To the Enthu, 30k is yes "HIGH" wow so scary. If u are using it for pro use and serious about it, 30k is nothing, really/ its considered low.

battery, ok maybe u can do a refund for the price only, but the sensor dust, blame it on yourself,

 

[ovaltinemilo]

If the shutter is expected to last 100k and it costs $270, so it's like $2.70 for 1k shutter count.

The shutter count was 25k more then advertised. So this works out to be buyer's lost of $67.50 "worth" of shutter count.

If seller return $67.50 to buyer..... fair?

Anyway, misrepresentation is certainty not good..

This sounds like a good solution to end the issue.;p

 

[allenleonhart]

Alamak Bro, u call 30K shutter count high ? Abd u are getting a pro camdera body to use it for pro use, not for enthu use. To the Enthu, 30k is yes "HIGH" wow so scary. If u are using it for pro use and serious about it, 30k is nothing, really/ its considered low.

battery, ok maybe u can do a refund for the price only, but the sensor dust, blame it on yourself,

pro use doesnt have to exactly shoot at 30k shutter count right?:think:

event photographer maybe. landscapper? maybe not:think:

even so, if ts and that guy has agreed on that price, yet found that it was on seller's error regarding the mistaken claims.

btw did ts go and change the shutter? seems like the 270 part is ts pay right? on top of that still lose 50. tats 320 for a really expensive lesson.

and seller gets to keep a refurbished and tuned dslr.:think:

did i read it rightly or wrongly? if wrong someone correct me.

 

[jasonteoch]

No, I didn't replace the shutter. My sms was that the cost of replacing a shutter was 270. The point being, he advertised a shuttercount of less than 5k. If he had said he'd return a hundred (meaning I paid 1650) for it, I would have readily agreed and not given it another thought.

TS didnt replace the shutter

 

[allenleonhart]

TS didnt replace the shutter

ok can thanks. just knew i must had missed that. edited to reflect

 

[allenleonhart]

ok can thanks. just knew i must had missed that. edited to reflect

then again, realised u cant edit, so in reply...

ts did not change, so he did not pay 320. so it was indeed i read wrongly and i apologise

if in that case, i think 50 bucks is ok. was under impression it was 320

 

[lookforstuff]

(...) after all you got the camera that work and at best it was mis representation of the shutter count.

Can we stick to the facts?
Seller clearly states: "Body in tip top condition, shutter count <5k due to super low usage. Its a back up for a 1D III body. 10-mint condition".
It is very obvious that the shutter count is THE key element here in the sale. Seller emphasizes on the low shutter count as the sole indicator for the statement that the camera is "10 to mint" condition.

In fact you could have even check shutter count on the spot - there are numerous post on how to check shutter count - just do a simple search and you will find: one very recent on http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6240508#post6240508. When buying used items one need to do some homework on the buyer part too.

Your link as well as earlier statements in this thread will proof you wrong. 5D with Digic II does not allow to read shutter count. Only via CSC.

In all fairness I do not see any scam here.

One can only hope that judges can identify right from wrong. Positioning a 30% used up camera compared to a 5% as advertised makes a great difference.

The only lessons here for ppl reading this thread is how to check a camera when buying used one.

As above, incorrect in this case. As such, his thread is very valuable, as it indicated the ethics of this seller HSM Sigma. Very obvious however in the number of sales items, this is clearly a professional dealer rather than a photographer. As such, caution is advised, and statements should be carefully judged.

Instead of "Beware of HSMSigma" or it may work against the TS and become a "Beware when selling to threadstarter"

Is this the fairness you are describing in your very own post? This buyer had no chance other than to believe the seller's ad. No way to check. And for finding out the truth about the item and the clear misleading by the seller, you are saying one should be aware of him? You mean becasue he will eventually find out that all sellers are lying about their items? Where is honesty? Where is business ethics (particularly from professional sellers)? Can we all lie, cheat, make false claims? When do you start to call it scam?

I will closed the thread if it goes one way and out of line.
Will wait for seller to respond.

Will Clubsnap not give a playform to highlight wrongdoings on their board? HSMSigma should be the one to get closed. Not this thread.

My 2 cents.
Andre