Buyers beware - HSMSigma

[night86mare]

I have stated and will state again that the seller is wrong.

But neither is the buyer an angel.

:thumbsup:

all parties want their way. fact is fact, shutter count wrong, seller wrong.

no warranty stated by seller, but seller willing to refund less "rental fee" to overwrite this term, is a fair enough compromise, i don't see why buyer refuses to budge, is equally unreasonable to me.

now, if the seller say, no warranty, misrepresentation of shutter count is your own business, then i say, seller is unreasonable. but seller already stated no warranty, willing to rescind that, the seller is making room for the buyer... it takes two hands to clap, it takes two sides to resolve a problem peacefully.

the buyer did not even want to bargain the rental price down reasonably, but just call seller unreasonable. frankly speaking, if the seller wanted to fulfill the cheating part, can just say that he stated "no warranty", tell buyer to go east coast fly kite. the fact that he is willing to give full refund is sign that he is trying to reach a compromise.

 

[WISHBONEASH]

is the seller a pro-trader, a search will tell if one bother to. how many items has he posted on bns with "low sc", "hobby user" and all that.

instead of going after TS, why not just search HSMSigma and before the truth be known!

Come on everyone, the seller is a senior member and a pro-trader. did he genuinely mis-state the SC?

And right, it is not nice to type in bold and red.

 

[CTN]

Did a search, this HSMSigma only post WTS threads.
So what is your point?

 

[WISHBONEASH]

My point is if you read his wts for the 5d against the number of sell and buy he has done, it tell a story. so as for maybe he mis-state the sc, well, you can believe what you want.

yes, nothing wrong with doing lots of buy and sell if you can make a living from it, but be upfront. do not make misleading claims. i remember one time someone wanted to sell me a 50 1.4 at a too good to be true price. we agreed to deal after which i did a search and found that just 2 weeks earlier, seller was complaining about the af of his 40 1.4! deal off after that.

sell all you want to, but be upfront about what you are selling, that's all

 

[February14th]

My friend, arround 2 years ago, he bought D80 from some1 in CS. The seller he wrote shutter count ~8k, then my friend bought (at this time, he totally a newbie) after 2-3 months ago, he using the Opanda to check, ZOMG, unbeliveable, it's more than 80k shutter count
Btw, shutter count doesn't mean the age of the body. My another friend he using 1Dm4, he take sport picture, bought ~Jan or Feb this year, and his shutter count 30k already.
So, peace

 

[driveanegg]

I know neither seller nor buyer.

I would agree that the seller have given wrong facts regarding the shutter count. Whether the seller knew about it or not is another matter.

Fact seems to be seller offered the buyer a way out of the problem which was refused by the buyer. Solution offered was not exactly unreasonable. It takes 2 hands to clap and 2 parties to find a resolution to the problem.

May this be resolved peacefully

 

[Crashout]

Dear Mr Moderator,

It seems that you have taken 'fairness' and 'impartiality' and thrown it out window.

Oh well, Let me sum up.

1. Yes, I wanted a new, or as new as possible, shutter. That was why I responded to the advert. That was why I agreed to pay the advertised price. That was why I did not bid/quote a lower price/ask for a discount. That was the whole point of the exercise.

It all boils down to wanting a relatively new, with as little mileage as possible camera. That was what was advertised. That was what I was paying for. I wish I could afford a brand new model, but I cannot, so the next best option is to buy 2nd hand and find one in good condition. And I thought I did.

For your information, I did not, and have not called the seller a scam (this in itself is grammatically wrong). I called the act of falsely advertising a product a scam, which is the definition of scam. At no point have I (or will I) say, 'dear moderators, this is a scammer, please deal with him'. That was not (and is not) the point of my post.

Large Red Words

Dear Mr Moderator,

Before you remove the plank from 'lookforstuff's eye, kindly remove the splinter from your own. As you have so kindly suggested to 'lookforstuff', maybe you should do the same. Read the SMS text log again carefully. Maybe try this one http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6308717&postcount=10 as well.

3. You say no. I paid 270 (in your text) ,

The point is that

1. the TS did not even replace the shutter and yet text the Seller that he paid for replacement of shutter.

 

[Crashout]

Unfortunately, the price I have paid for the camera (even after the "50" refund" could have netted me a 5D from the BnS with much lower shutter count, more batteries and a grip.

And yes, considering all I have had to pay (so far) for the camera, the 'solution' offered was (to me) unreasonable. Then again, whats unreasonable to me may not be unreasonable to someone else. And to have to pay another 50 as 'rent', to get my money back, just made things even worse. Why am I being punished for the sellers 'mistake' (intentional or not).

But like I have said, my lesson learnt.

The entire gist of my post was to serve as a warning. A wise man learns from a fool's mistakes. I have been the fool here, and I am just sharing so that no one else would suffer this fool's fate.

I know neither seller nor buyer.

I would agree that the seller have given wrong facts regarding the shutter count. Whether the seller knew about it or not is another matter.

Fact seems to be seller offered the buyer a way out of the problem which was refused by the buyer. Solution offered was not exactly unreasonable. It takes 2 hands to clap and 2 parties to find a resolution to the problem.

May this be resolved peacefully

 

[WISHBONEASH]

My friend, arround 2 years ago, he bought D80 from some1 in CS. The seller he wrote shutter count ~8k, then my friend bought (at this time, he totally a newbie) after 2-3 months ago, he using the Opanda to check, ZOMG, unbeliveable, it's more than 80k shutter count
Btw, shutter count doesn't mean the age of the body. My another friend he using 1Dm4, he take sport picture, bought ~Jan or Feb this year, and his shutter count 30k already.
So, peace

the point here is not about the age of the body, it is about the purported shutter count.

 

[sammedia]

is the seller a pro-trader, a search will tell if one bother to. how many items has he posted on bns with "low sc", "hobby user" and all that.

instead of going after TS, why not just search HSMSigma and before the truth be known!

Come on everyone, the seller is a senior member and a pro-trader. did he genuinely mis-state the SC?

And right, it is not nice to type in bold and red.

so pro-trader cannot make mistake? If so far only 1 complian case against this seller, I think to be fair, we can't base on 1 case & condemn him.

Since seller already agree to buy back less $50 for almost a week sold item which dont come with any warranty in the first place, I think he already offer his best to make up for his mistake. As for the $70 which buyer spend on the batt. & cleaning of sensor, I dont think it will be fair to ask the seller to bear the cost.

Perhaps, both party can work something out like a bit more discount from the seller. But asking $150 discount for the different of 25k shutter count, frankly speaking, a bit unfair to the seller.

FYI, 30k SC for a DSLR is not really high.

 

[wmayeo]

It would sometimes help if people would read (and remember) what the TS wrote.



May I quote TS:

The costs for this are around 100. So return the camera with a new battery and a cleaned viewfinder, and another cash loss of 50$? So 150$ in addition to a week of trouble? Great deal! Rental? The person neither wanted to rent it, not did he want a camera with a shutter count of 30k. So you will say: keep the battery... But this is useless without the camera.

chngpe01, You are highlighting the rules of being nice and fair; Is it nice and fair to shout out loud in RED and BOLD, and even missing the facts?

HSMSigma has not done right here, I hope there is no doubt about it. And this is all this thread is about, to make others aware that what is written may not always be the truth.
Whether TS should have been less trusting from the beginning is a different story, and he does not deserve this damage just because he took what was written for the truth. It is not nice and fair to say that it is HIS fault as he trusted someone. It is simply a lesson learned. You may read the thread about Justin Yeo: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718411&highlight=beware+of+juice
In this thread, similar story, and not surprisingly the TS is the "good guy", the seller the bad guy, as seller also did "misrepresent".

Just a suggestion: I think a feedback mechanism for the sellers would be good. You can take a look at www.phing.com how feedback can be properly implemented into the B&S platform. I find this works great.
Andre

I think you shouldn't stereotype TS situation with other ones and bring other's dirty laundry out of the bag to talk about it. Both learnt their lesson and the issue was already closed.

 

[WISHBONEASH]

so pro-trader cannot make mistake? If so far only 1 complian case against this seller, I think to be fair, we can't base on 1 case & condemn him.

Since seller already agree to buy back less $50 for almost a week sold item which dont come with any warranty in the first place, I think he already offer his best to make up for his mistake. As for the $70 which buyer spend on the batt. & cleaning of sensor, I dont think it will be fair to ask the seller to bear the cost.

Perhaps, both party can work something out like a bit more discount from the seller. But asking $150 discount for the different of 25k shutter count, frankly speaking, a bit unfair to the seller.

FYI, 30k SC for a DSLR is not really high.

hmmm pro-trader or hobby user,
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696929
and again it is not whether the sc is really high or not...

 

[sammedia]

hmmm pro-trader or hobby user,
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696929
and again it is not whether the sc is really high or not...

hahaha, maybe pro-trader who buy from a hobby user & sell here?:bsmilie:

perhaps pro-trader sometime also kanna mislead by hobby user on SC.

 

[WISHBONEASH]

hahaha, maybe pro-trader who buy from a hobby user & sell here?:bsmilie:

perhaps pro-trader sometime also kanna mislead by hobby user on SC.

quote "Shutter count 10k only since I am a hobby user."unquote
this is made in the first person meaning he is saying he is a hobby user.

 

[sammedia]

quote "Shutter count 10k only since I am a hobby user."unquote
this is made in the first person meaning he is saying he is a hobby user.

pro trader cannot be hobby user also? ;p

 

[qystan]

Firstly, be assured that I do not know Crashout.

I find it rather starnge that many think that it is ok for someone to either deliberately or mistakenly misrepresent something and offer some form of compensation at his own discretion on how much is reasonable and expect that it makes matters square.

Let's not forget that the issue misrepresented could be central to the entire transaction which would have not taken place if the facts were stated.

Take a used car as an analogy. Imagine you've just bought one that has been declared free of any accident for $60k only to discover a week later that it had major body repairs as a result of an accident. The seller then offers to return $10k as compensation.

The compensation is large, almost 20%. You can't call it unreasonable since the sum is large. Reject it and he asks for rental at $200 a day or $1,400 since its been a week. How?

Point is that the transaction, even at at the lower $50k (60-10), would not have taken place if the accident was put on the table. The misrepresentation was deliberate to induce the sale. You could run this many times and collect $1,400 each time and if done enough times you don't need to sell the car.

Put it another way, the buyer was baited and once he takes it he's on the hook to lose money or his purchase criteria. Baiting in this manner cannot be looked as ok.

Try another scenario, a shop deliberately passes you a faulty piece and when you return he says its the last set and you're left with no choice except to take another product which he has jacked up the price or exercise the warranty which the manufacturer will make it "as good as new". Can't say the shop is unreasonable as he is agreeing to give you a full value refund. Is his offer fair?

We are too easily taken by sellers and it comes down to an absence of consumer protection and malpractice laws and belief that 'caveat emptor' rules the day.

 

[WISHBONEASH]

pro trader cannot be hobby user also? ;p

pro-trader cannot purposely mis-state sc also?

 

[chikubang]

I think at this stage, it is really pointless to argue who is right/wrong. I think TS should just keep the camera if the camera is really in tip top condition (beside the shuttercount being ~30K). Since you already sent it for sensor cleaning and bought a battery, it will be better to keep the camera rather than losing the additional 50 dollars (+ the battery and sensor cleaning costs).

Shoot more and create more fab photos.

 

[WISHBONEASH]

Guidelines...

Definition of Commercial vs Personal Sellers :-
Commercial sellers: Members who have been identified as regular/frequent sellers and/or selling in larger quantities, and may have registered businesses with long-term commitment in the goods/services that they offer. Sellers may have a retail front or registered place of business, and items sold are new and unopened.

Personal sellers: individuals who are offering goods or services to other members. Typically, personal sellers will only have one or at most two of the same items to sell, and those goods have been opened and used.

The Buy & Sell sections are primarily for Personal Sales, and we will remove without notice all threads posted by members who we have identified as falling into the Commercial Sellers category.

 

[geraldkhoo]

is the seller a pro-trader, a search will tell if one bother to. how many items has he posted on bns with "low sc", "hobby user" and all that.

instead of going after TS, why not just search HSMSigma and before the truth be known!

Come on everyone, the seller is a senior member and a pro-trader. did he genuinely mis-state the SC?

And right, it is not nice to type in bold and red.

eh... the seller, HSMSigma, is not a senior member.

However, I did a search and he sure has a lot of buy and sell, and different systems as well.

Hmmm... if he is a "pro-trader", shouldn't he register as an Advertiser and pay CS so that we can all continue to have this great forum running?