5D II Specs


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Maybe OOT.. Everybody knows that Nikon has the highest ISO on their DSLR as compare to Canon. But is there a need for that high ISO that Nikon produce? If yes, why is Canon still come up new sets of FF DSLR without raising their ISO? :dunno:

There is definitely usefulness in clean high ISO, it pratically gives you more light, which in turn create photo possibilities that was previously not possible. It's one of the more useful advancement then pixel count/live view, just to name a few (in my opinion).

Why is Canon sitting duck ? that question had been asked countless time and speculation/answer in this longest 'next model' thread in clubsnap. Well, my assessment is as follow:

Canon was threaten from the low end, which see a slew of low cost models from Olympus, Sony and Nikon that is eating up their market share. So, the focus had been shifted there, hence the slew of quite decent low end offerings from Canon recently (450D, 1000D). At the same time, Canon top-end 1 series had seen technical challenges from their quality issues as well as AF issues, sucking away significant resources to contain the problem, which till now still had not restore the confidence level of the pro. This is a big threat not mainly because revenue/margin from the top line is large, but rather there is a propagative effect from the perception on what Pro choose to use, in swinging mid/low end purchase decision. Just think of the rows and rows of big white lens on major sports event. In fact if you see, Canon had tried to up the high ISO game in the recent 1D mark3, up the ISO to 6400. And in typical of Canon approach, they normally quite conservative in pushing their ISO control in their DSLR compare to other brands. For example, D30/40 ISO 3200 is probably close to D200 ISO 1600 (which uses CCD sensors), but D200 boldly include 3200 in their D200, and Canon actual sensitivities is actually higher then what's claim (eg. ISO 3200 is closer to ISO4000), wherease Nikon ISO 3200 is closer to 3200. So 1D mark3 can comfortably manage ISO 12800, but still still lag behind D3/D700.

Nikon strategy in D3/D700 is quite smart, and in one sweep, they threaten Canon 1 series, and at the same time D700 foray into a new segment which was absent in Nikon, so there is nothing to loose from Nikon and everything to loose from Canon. Timing is also perfect when Canon is struggling with their 1 series issues.

Canon is definitely scrambling for a response now, but they are probably limited in their options. Their so call 5D2 is probably inferior to D700 (the usual market segmentation internally focus, they had monopolise for too long and they use the old assumptions on competitor line up, and D700 threw a curve ball and they were caught off guard). They can choose to push the 5D2 with lower price and lower spec then D700, but that will not goes down very well with their branding and positioning, too close to 40D as well, which is a sizable segment for them. They probably need more time to have a model that match or surpass D700, and worry also on impact to 1D value proporsition, and consumer patient is running low in waiting for the next model, as you can see from the length of this thread. On top of that, they also is also trying their best to speculate what is next from Sony in the similar segment, which will certainly have something very close to D700, and with image stablelizer built in, and it will be qutie embarassing to be upseted twice in a row.

Another big threat they are worrying about is the Nikon D3x, which is likely to be a 24MP FF D3. And likely something similar from Sony very soon as well. 1Ds is too new for upgrade, AF still a bugging issue. Would be interesting to see how they response. One possibility is to boost up on their Pro lens lineup, if they can offer some significant upgrade to their L lenses, they can still keep some of the switch, which was also why they push out the 200 f2, 800 f5.6 recently. So next up is probably 24-70 IS, 100 Macro IS ?

This is a major full frontal assult, and boy I am seriously enjoying this. Like watching a real life ancient art of war is display. I am sticking to Canon for now, but I'll enjoy this competition.
 

Nice analysis! Interesting read ... what will Canon do next? :think:
 

Canon is definitely scrambling for a response now, but they are probably limited in their options. Their so call 5D2 is probably inferior to D700 (the usual market segmentation internally focus, they had monopolise for too long and they use the old assumptions on competitor line up, and D700 threw a curve ball and they were caught off guard). They can choose to push the 5D2 with lower price and lower spec then D700, but that will not goes down very well with their branding and positioning, too close to 40D as well, which is a sizable segment for them. They probably need more time to have a model that match or surpass D700, and worry also on impact to 1D value proporsition, and consumer patient is running low in waiting for the next model, as you can see from the length of this thread. On top of that, they also is also trying their best to speculate what is next from Sony in the similar segment, which will certainly have something very close to D700, and with image stablelizer built in, and it will be qutie embarassing to be upseted twice in a row.

Another big threat they are worrying about is the Nikon D3x, which is likely to be a 24MP FF D3. And likely something similar from Sony very soon as well. 1Ds is too new for upgrade, AF still a bugging issue. Would be interesting to see how they response. One possibility is to boost up on their Pro lens lineup, if they can offer some significant upgrade to their L lenses, they can still keep some of the switch, which was also why they push out the 200 f2, 800 f5.6 recently. So next up is probably 24-70 IS, 100 Macro IS ?

This is a major full frontal assult, and boy I am seriously enjoying this. Like watching a real life ancient art of war is display. I am sticking to Canon for now, but I'll enjoy this competition.

IIRC Canon did mention that they would be splitting the 5D to 2 lines, 1 to compete the lower end and the other to compete on the higher end. So I would say that they might chose to bracket their competitors consumer FF on both ends.

The 1D series would be revised anyway, I'm guessing that they might shorten the 3 years cycle (IIRC Nikon is also moving on reduced cycle timeline now). But with incremental improvements rather than risky technological jumps.

The potential profit issue most likely will come from the low-end 5D vs 40D or 50D. I guess maybe Canon might wake up and give a feature rich 50D ala D300 compared to a pared-down low-end FF ala current 5D with digic3 and minor updates like LCD..etc.
 

Nicely written analysis, chopper and cyrn.. I too find it interesting at the currently tacts the camera companies are vying on.

Taking note of all the competitive edge that are rivaling canon. i am waiting to see what's canon confrontation to all this issue soon on either their 5dmk2 or probably 50d. I too believe D700 is now the minimum criteria/spects to beat.. And competition definitely will be very tight.

The time factor of nikon to unleash D700 is really at a good time.

Plus sony the maker of nikon sensor is definitely expected to come up with something matching d700 or beyond it.

If canon's 5dmk2 or the 50d failed the market interest, they sure be heading to a down turn with ID mk3 just only passed a year and issues to fix. They can't easily just update the 1D line.
 

If canon's 5dmk2 or the 50d failed the market interest, they sure be heading to a down turn with ID mk3 just only passed a year and issues to fix. They can't easily just update the 1D line.

I've got a feeling that this September's 5D2 might be a disappointment... I expect them to target the lower end first. So it's cheap but limited features. My guess anyway.
 

I've got a feeling that this September's 5D2 might be a disappointment... I expect them to target the lower end first. So it's cheap but limited features. My guess anyway.

I would think so too. Its a very important segment for Canon and its their way of rocking the boat for the competition!

If you can't beat the competition in the market... Change the market! :bsmilie:

Its well within their means to churn out a FF at about SG$2k and mop out the floor from the competition in the entry FF market.. This way, it gives the competition less time to amortise their FF investments, as they will be forced to lower their FF offerings price or churn out new models...

While they bide the time to sort out their high-end models such as the 1D series and the 5D replacement with higher feature sets ? :dunno:

Or they could do the reverse the churn out a tech model to re-assert their technological lead so as to 'win' the market.. while concurrently pushing out a low-end model ?

It all depends on how the accountants and the marketing guys press the calculator buttons though... :think:
 

Very exciting and competitive chapters for all the branded DSLR wars going on now.
We consumers just sit couch potato waiting for the best deals/ value to benefit from.
 

I've got a feeling that this September's 5D2 might be a disappointment... I expect them to target the lower end first. So it's cheap but limited features. My guess anyway.
Ditto. Now the Canon marketing guys must be stumped trying to figure out how best to market the 5DII which is prolly lower-speced than the D700 and yet they can't underprice it to avoid cutting into the 40D/(50D) market. And whilst Canon is still struggling with AF issue of its latest 1 series, Nikon still has D3x up its sleeves (which I predict will be a monster). Sony is also waiting in the wings to unveil its 1st FF DSLR. Tough times for Canon ahead. :sweat:
 

Ditto. Now the Canon marketing guys must be stumped trying to figure out how best to market the 5DII which is prolly lower-speced than the D700 and yet they can't underprice it to avoid cutting into the 40D/(50D) market. And whilst Canon is still struggling with AF issue of its latest 1 series, Nikon still has D3x up its sleeves (which I predict will be a monster). Sony is also waiting in the wings to unveil its 1st FF DSLR. Tough times for Canon ahead. :sweat:

actually the 40D is dirt cheap nowdays....
there is quite a big space to price the 5DII. from S$2k-$3k.... :)
 

Ditto. Now the Canon marketing guys must be stumped trying to figure out how best to market the 5DII which is prolly lower-speced than the D700 and yet they can't underprice it to avoid cutting into the 40D/(50D) market. And whilst Canon is still struggling with AF issue of its latest 1 series, Nikon still has D3x up its sleeves (which I predict will be a monster). Sony is also waiting in the wings to unveil its 1st FF DSLR. Tough times for Canon ahead. :sweat:

Canon's xxxxD, xxxD, xxD, xD, EF/EF-S and 1D/1Ds segmentamania has worked well for them, but only to a point.

This strategy seems to have reached its plateau leaving neither segment much room without eating into another segment's revenue. Kinda similar to an economy in great need of a recession to weed out the thrash and re-assign valuable resources to a new promising strategy.

The question of course is, will Canon have the foresight, guts, and strength to do it? We will see in the next few months whether Canon will continue to trod along this deadbeat track, or grow new balls :)
 

bumping up ... make it #1000 and straight to 5DMKIII :thumbsup:
 

Upgrade temptation, that is what Canon should play.
40D priced low, tempting entry level users to buy upwards. Entry level FF to temp 40D users to buy upwards again. There is volume sales potential in low priced products. Decrease the product life cycle and watch unit sales soar. Similar tactic with compact cams.
more users = more cams = more lenses = more market share
What's in it for me? A cheap entry level FF camera. Fancy features will available with each incremental model.
 

there is quite a big space to price the 5DII. from S$2k-$3k....

With all these competitions going on....i dont think they can price it above S$3.5k, unless it's a totally new beast as compared to the old 5D.

I'm still waiting impatiently....haha
 

Canon's xxxxD, xxxD, xxD, xD, EF/EF-S and 1D/1Ds segmentamania has worked well for them, but only to a point.

This strategy seems to have reached its plateau leaving neither segment much room without eating into another segment's revenue. Kinda similar to an economy in great need of a recession to weed out the thrash and re-assign valuable resources to a new promising strategy.

The question of course is, will Canon have the foresight, guts, and strength to do it? We will see in the next few months whether Canon will continue to trod along this deadbeat track, or grow new balls :)

True.

I see if they maintain 6 lines... xxxxD below $500, xxxD below $1K, xxD below $1.5K, xD about $2K and $2.5K lastly 1D at $3K. Back to the old days of flim SLR pricing. Have to wait for another cycle tho.
 

actually the 40D is dirt cheap nowdays....
there is quite a big space to price the 5DII. from S$2k-$3k.... :)

How much is D700? $4K? Sony also like to price their products as premium, so I guess it's about $4.5K thereabout.

So I guess Canon would price above $3K (in Sg at least).
 

Why worry about matching the bodies from competitors when you see White lens still dominating the sides of the arenas at the Olympics? Which other brand has as comprehensive range of lenses as them? So guess they could still bid their time.....
 

True.

I see if they maintain 6 lines... xxxxD below $500, xxxD below $1K, xxD below $1.5K, xD about $2K and $2.5K lastly 1D at $3K. Back to the old days of flim SLR pricing. Have to wait for another cycle tho.

How long do we have to wait for prices to drop by so much? ;p

How much is D700? $4K? Sony also like to price their products as premium, so I guess it's about $4.5K thereabout.

So I guess Canon would price above $3K (in Sg at least).

D700 is $3.9k now.
 

Why worry about matching the bodies from competitors when you see White lens still dominating the sides of the arenas at the Olympics? Which other brand has as comprehensive range of lenses as them? So guess they could still bid their time.....

pro market are more resilient to switch, due to lens loyalty, workflow, agency contract etc, but things change faster then b4. heard nikon launched a 'back to black' campaign to switch pro to nikon. Canon better watched out
 

pro market are more resilient to switch, due to lens loyalty, workflow, agency contract etc, but things change faster then b4. heard nikon launched a 'back to black' campaign to switch pro to nikon. Canon better watched out


Canon could have a "stick with white" campaign to battle Nikon.

Ala back to the past in USA on the issue between colour supremancy :bsmilie:
 

How long do we have to wait for prices to drop by so much? ;p



D700 is $3.9k now.

already mentioned loh... 1 more cycle... I'm juz guessing.
 

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