Would you work for $1 Photos?

[Volks]

I say I'll be happy if our local born construction workers earn S$2-3K or even more ! When that day comes , it showed we have succeeded in re-model Singapore to a place where Professional services are appreciated, just like the Swiss & OZ in the construction industry & every other sector will be fee justified accordingly. Especially Photography ! I'll crystal balled also that Graduates will get proper employment in their learnt expertise & need not venture into other people's bread / butter ground . Gone will be the days when people with so so skill are serving up to themselves just because they are more business minded than the other who truly holds better skill , cut that crap business-sharing sessions that run to fill one's ego.

I am not pointing to anyone but holding Professional talk here is simply BS in a public amateurish website like this one.

 

[JasonB]

Sorry Hart, I am all for profits and capitalism, but, your point on the foreigner issue is, to put it bluntly, lame.

I am with Kiwi on this one.

There are 3 to 4 new provision shops opening around my area, all by new immigrant indians. Things are cheaper but I never buy from them, not even 80 cents newspaper. I walk 5 blocks away and cross the roads to buy from my local Indian mama shop which I had been patronising since I moved into the estate years ago. Indian mama that converse with me in Malay. Does he speaks English, of course, but we do fine with local language. I get my groceries from the econ minimart uncle further away, more expensive, but I like talking to a fellow Singaporean.

Foreigners if ever want to be accepted into the society, best to stop behaving like foreigners and start integrating. Which means giving up identity from their previous country. Which means start giving. We can start from 2 years of NS and 10 years of reservist. Show us they are willing to die for the country first, and willing for their sons to die for this island too, regardless if this is a rich island or humble fishing port. All Singaporean working persons eyes are opening big big watching clearly if they are here to take, or to build. We are not stupid. And best to stop telling Singaporeans to be grateful to them for occupying space, taking away jobs and school seats.

Again, I am all for furthering the business of photography, but steering the discussion into the foreigner workforce issue, it only goes south.

 

[kiwi2]

Yup, and since we're at it, to add on:

Seriously, I don't care what this government do, but there must surely be certain comfort level and standards to maintain. Unfortunately, they have not done so by letting these foreigners affect something very basic to us - public housing as well as having a comfortable and reliable public transport.

I thought things have really gotten out of control (and only confirmed the complaints of Singaporeans are valid) when I read reports that showed overseas employers here favoring their own people over Singaporeans when it comes to employment. The Singapore government is just basically re-locating the foreigners to a new location, ie Singapore. But at the expense of the locals!! Only after the people here made a big hoo-hah for a long time that the government then sit up to listen and decided it should be controlled. But why didn't they think about this earlier? Isn't it their duty to protect the rights of Singaporeans first?

My Malay friends have also complained to me a few times how the cashiers and sometimes sales people in supermarkets can't even speak basic English. Ok you wanna cut costs, yes yes, improve the economy of this country, but did you ensure these foreigners can meet basic standards? You go try working in the US or Australia with little English knowledge and see what happens to you! In fact, in the US, if they hear a foreign sounding person on the phone who knows how to speak good English, some of them will say rudely they want to speak only to an American.

And a neighbor of mine who owns a small business complained to me how he got many rubbish applicants when he ran an ad for skilled workers. There are many foreigners from Myanmar, etc (especially from India!!!) who applied and will tell you they can do a 1000 things well. They even have certs to show you. But when tested on the spot, they know nuts about basic stuffs. But I believe there are still employers out there who will pay little and employ such foreign trash. That's quite like those who charge cheap in photography, isn't it? How do you feel?

So, you call these foreigners cheaper and more EFFICIENT? My foot. These are the kinds of jobs that Singaporeans are well-qualified and should be doing. We are only lowering the standards of service and general quality in Singapore. It's all about $$$$ to the government, all about how to "improve the GDP", just like running a business.

So if these foreigners are not considered snatching away the rice bowls of Singaporeans, then what?

 

[sfoto100]

Yup, and since we're at it, to add on:

Seriously, I don't care what this government do, but there must surely be certain comfort level and standards to maintain. Unfortunately, they have not done so by letting these foreigners affect something very basic to us - public housing as well as having a comfortable and reliable public transport.

I thought things have really gotten out of control (and only confirmed the complaints of Singaporeans are valid) when I read reports that showed overseas employers here favoring their own people over Singaporeans when it comes to employment. The Singapore government is just basically re-locating the foreigners to a new location, ie Singapore. But at the expense of the locals!! Only after the people here made a big hoo-hah for a long time that the government then sit up to listen and decided it should be controlled. But why didn't they think about this earlier? Isn't it their duty to protect the rights of Singaporeans first?

My Malay friends have also complained to me a few times how the cashiers and sometimes sales people in supermarkets can't even speak basic English. Ok you wanna cut costs, yes yes, improve the economy of this country, but did you ensure these foreigners can meet basic standards? You go try working in the US or Australia with little English knowledge and see what happens to you! In fact, in the US, if they hear a foreign sounding person on the phone who knows how to speak good English, some of them will say rudely they want to speak only to an American.

And a friend of mine who owns a small business complained to me how he got many rubbish applicants when he ran an ad for skilled workers. There are many foreigners from Myanmar, etc (especially from India!!!) who applied and will tell you they can do a 1000 things well. They even have certs to show you. But when tested on the spot, they know nuts about basic stuffs. But I believe there are still employers out there who will pay little and employ such foreign trash. That's quite like those who charge cheap in photography, isn't it? How do you feel?

So, you call these foreigners cheaper and more EFFICIENT? My foot. These are the kinds of jobs that Singaporeans are well-qualified and should be doing. We are only lowering the standards of service and general quality in Singapore. It's all about $$$$ to the government, all about how to "improve the GDP", just like running a business.

So if these foreigners are not considered snatching away the rice bowls of Singaporeans, then what?

Kit said earlier on that cheap is for sure, but may not be better.. i have first hadn experience and i am still experiencing it now, today!

i am in IT industry.. and we have tons of FTs.. in one of my jobs, we even have FTs from UK, Australia (tons of them for that project), USA... Fluent spoken English for sure, but many of them can't write... reading their emails is a pain in the ass.. and some of them are very stuck up, thinking the whole bloody project depends on them, but the fact that some of the key FTs from AU are there is solely bcos the program top guy is from AU and he want to use these people.. I thought they must be very amazing to hold such high designations.. oh my goodness, i discover i am as good too! and alot cheaper! But of course I can't speak English with ang mo accent.. My client complained so much about one AU top post guy!

I took over one project initialy lead by one Indian FT; one Malaysian FT told me this indian guy design and build the project and the AU guy just took it! I was a late comer to my project and i heard tons of complains from FTs against these top AU FTs.. by the way, in that company, Sgporeans make up only 20% and SG ppl used to say we are 3rd class and Indian FT 2nd class and ang mo FT 1st class in the company. There is a few China FTs and M'sia FTs, they seems good to me.. and in general the chinese are the ones who work and can't talk well and as for the other i leave it to you to guess.. this is the

in this company, i saw 2 very technically sound Indian FTs.. really very good, but too proud and arrogant and will do anyting to climb.. too aggressive.. one of them likes to boast alot.. and he enjoy putting me down when i just join that project and begin to pick up the technology used to deliver that project.. once when we need to setup the test environment i said i will do it with him around as guide, he said if he do it takes 10 min and if i do, i will take few days, but eventually he took a few days too! eventually i pick up and i don't even border with him..

and the best is one so called director level FT from USA came and can't deliver and have to be sent back, but during his stay here, the company rent a sgd7000-8000 condo for him. I feel sorry for the company really...

well to sum up my experience of working with about 30 FTS from India, AU, UK... those from india are cheap, but my general experience is that it does come at a price, efficiency is affected, at one point 3 colleagues (me included) have to stay overtime to overwatch on India FT so that he complete his job (our jobs depends on his)... for that case, the company gained, as the work is still done, but with tons of direct help from me and others.. i feel quite miserable really .. so much of my own personal time wasted eventually he got scolded harshly by one senior and he complained to his director who inform our director.. after that i dare not raise my voice with him, i really don't know what to say for this extreme case! FML!

so, ang mo FTs may not be better, some of them can't get jobs in their countries and come here.. and i have seen a few of them who are just a little better than cheaters! i can't believe it until i work with them!

india FTs, my experience is that quite a number are not on par in terms of technical knowledge.. this is quite a big issue in my opinion , but i believe it affects not only SG.. they are good ones for sure.. and in my experience it is about 20% .. so if u hire them u r lucky.. but don't think they are all drawing very low salary, some are , but some are not, and are in fact highly paid!

 

[sjackal]

My Singaporean friend in New Zealand highly educated but cannot get even simple job as clerk for more than a year because she is Asian and they give jobs priority to their own people first.

Fart. This thread is diving.

 

[Kit]

Kit said earlier on that cheap is for sure, but may not be better.. i have first hadn experience and i am still experiencing it now, today!

i am in IT industry.. and we have tons of FTs.. in one of my jobs, we even have FTs from UK, Australia (tons of them for that project), USA... Fluent spoken English for sure, but many of them can't write... reading their emails is a pain in the ass.. and some of them are very stuck up, thinking the whole bloody project depends on them, but the fact that some of the key FTs from AU are there is solely bcos the program top guy is from AU and he want to use these people.. I thought they must be very amazing to hold such high designations.. oh my goodness, i discover i am as good too! and alot cheaper! But of course I can't speak English with ang mo accent.. My client complained so much about one AU top post guy!

I took over one project initialy lead by one Indian FT; one Malaysian FT told me this indian guy design and build the project and the AU guy just took it! I was a late comer to my project and i heard tons of complains from FTs against these top AU FTs.. by the way, in that company, Sgporeans make up only 20% and SG ppl used to say we are 3rd class and Indian FT 2nd class and ang mo FT 1st class in the company. There is a few China FTs and M'sia FTs, they seems good to me.. and in general the chinese are the ones who work and can't talk well and as for the other i leave it to you to guess.. this is the

in this company, i saw 2 very technically sound Indian FTs.. really very good, but too proud and arrogant and will do anyting to climb.. too aggressive.. one of them likes to boast alot.. and he enjoy putting me down when i just join that project and begin to pick up the technology used to deliver that project.. once when we need to setup the test environment i said i will do it with him around as guide, he said if he do it takes 10 min and if i do, i will take few days, but eventually he took a few days too! eventually i pick up and i don't even border with him..

and the best is one so called director level FT from USA came and can't deliver and have to be sent back, but during his stay here, the company rent a sgd7000-8000 condo for him. I feel sorry for the company really...

well to sum up my experience of working with about 30 FTS from India, AU, UK... those from india are cheap, but my general experience is that it does come at a price, efficiency is affected, at one point 3 colleagues (me included) have to stay overtime to overwatch on India FT so that he complete his job (our jobs depends on his)... for that case, the company gained, as the work is still done, but with tons of direct help from me and others.. i feel quite miserable really .. so much of my own personal time wasted eventually he got scolded harshly by one senior and he complained to his director who inform our director.. after that i dare not raise my voice with him, i really don't know what to say for this extreme case! FML!

so, ang mo FTs may not be better, some of them can't get jobs in their countries and come here.. and i have seen a few of them who are just a little better than cheaters! i can't believe it until i work with them!

india FTs, my experience is that quite a number are not on par in terms of technical knowledge.. this is quite a big issue in my opinion , but i believe it affects not only SG.. they are good ones for sure.. and in my experience it is about 20% .. so if u hire them u r lucky.. but don't think they are all drawing very low salary, some are , but some are not, and are in fact highly paid!

hurhurhur..... someone's efficiency is always built on others' inefficiency.....

 

[kiwi2]

sfoto100: Totally know what you mean. IT is one of the biggest careers with foreigners from everywhere. Singaporeans who studied computing or programming in the past are indeed having a tough time with all these imports. It's like lelong lelong, from India, Myanmar, Philippines, Indonesia, cheap cheap! Employ me! I want my PR here (to get out of my own problematic country!) and the Singapore government absolutely lurrrrve these people. Give them PR or convert them to citizens easily. Get their whole jin gang of family here even better. Pay them cheap but whether quality is there or not, that's another matter. To hell with our own Singaporeans. Ask them to upgrade or find another job.

No different from Cheap cheap photography! $10 an hour.

sjackal: Not surprising. It has always been like that for long decades. Why should it not be right? Any logical government in any good 1st world country will protect their own people first. Not Singapore's though.

I remember my teacher back in the mid-90s telling us his friend, also a teacher, thought he wanted a better life in Australia and wished to teach there. In the end, for many months, there were no jobs for him! Cos obviously he wasn't one of them. He had to become a cleaner! I thought it was a ridiculous outcome. I wondered, how come the Australian government so heartless? But now, I know they are not. They are just protecting their own people's job and welfare.

Growing up, and looking at the way things have turned out now, I realized we are the direct opposite. Foreigners get invited here and we could get booted out of jobs or have to accept much lower pay. And a joker in this forum could even say "No, foreigners do not snatch jobs from Singaporeans. It's because foreigners are cheaper and more EFFICIENT." Biggest joke ever! Just because it's so easy for them to get a job here, thanks to the government, they talk like a champion.

Ok think we have digressed from photography. Will stop here. But I do see some parallels between photography business and the issue of foreign employment here.

 

[mo2]

hahahaha ... let's start another thread discussing FT's ...

Way i look at it is ..... 'Our forefathers came to Singapore as FT's as well' ... from China, India, Malaysia ... etc ...

So let's view them as the NEXT generation of Singaporeans ... Irony is ... some of us are leaving for other countries as well ...

CHEERS >>>

 

[SilentSeth]

hahahaha ... let's start another thread discussing FT's ...

Way i look at it is ..... 'Our forefathers came to Singapore as FT's as well' ... from China, India, Malaysia ... etc ...

So let's view them as the NEXT generation of Singaporeans ... Irony is ... some of us are leaving for other countries as well ...

CHEERS >>>

Agree. Let's move on. I'm very sad with the fact that $1 is a cheapo photography job but apparently good enough to drive people to post comments full of hate toward others.

 

[catchlights]

this is off topic way too far,

here is photo biz, is for discussing on the BUSINESS aspect of photography.

please stay on the topic.

 

[sjackal]

hahahaha ... let's start another thread discussing FT's ...

Way i look at it is ..... 'Our forefathers came to Singapore as FT's as well' ... from China, India, Malaysia ... etc ...

So let's view them as the NEXT generation of Singaporeans ... Irony is ... some of us are leaving for other countries as well ...

CHEERS >>>

Our forefathers were the pioneers who built Singapore.

My grandfather (father side) was captured by the Japanese for being an anti japanese element during the Sook Ching shortly after the fall of Singapore in world war 2, he never returned, presumably tortured to death, as many others were.

My grandfather (mother side) was also captured together with his brothers, but escaped by jumping off the truck of the Kempeitais on the way to the Changi beach. My grand uncles who were too afraid to jump truck, did not survive once they reach Changi beach.

Our pioneers had died for this island. To take our birth right lightly and forget the blood sacrificed by of our ancestors that easily by comparing our forefathers with the current immigrants is not very pleasant to read.

Hopefully, Catchlights will lock this thread soon. Its painful to read on.

 

[Agetan]

I rest my case... just my opinion really...

Hart

 

[Kit]

You were voicing your thoughts in an insensitive manner; which was kinda shocking comeing from you whom presumably, possess a wealth of knowledge in human relationships.

Got to expect some adverse responses when you are doing it "on other peoples' turf".

 

[Agetan]

You were voicing your thoughts in an insensitive manner; which was kinda shocking comeing from you whom presumably, possess a wealth of knowledge in human relationships.

Got to expect some adverse responses when you are doing it "on other peoples' turf".

Kit,

Really, I think I put salt the wound... It hurts... I know. I do know people will do that to me. I can be acting being nice and go with the flow or say what I feel. I am not here to offend anyone but I feel I should voice out.

If one can be open minded and think about it, it is up to them to think what they like. I am just offering another perspective which unfortunately not a perspective that is acceptable for many. In business in particular, if you can't open your mind to accept the fact and what's coming and change, then well life isn't that perfect.

As I said, everyone will get replace by someone who is offering the same at cheaper price. That includes me. What I feel about it really doesn't matter because the fact always hurts. This is very very fundamental of business and I really surprise that people who run their business can't even grasp this simple idea.

Again, I am sorry if you feel what I wrote offended you, but my intention is to offer my perspective from the other side, it is up to you guys to accept or to object.

As I said, I rest my case and it wasn't personal but some of you took it personally.

Hart

 

[catchlights]

Of one photographer able to sustain making a living out of photography, there are countless quit along the way,

it is so easy when you are only making extra money to fund your hobby, you can talk so big and tell everybody you are shooting for passion.
but if you want to be a professional and can't put food on the table for your family and yourself, you have to think what should you do next.

I'm amaze by some people can drive the price point down all the way down till it has no returning,

just see "on the spot printing for event", and "groupon deals" for an example, in the end of the day, if you can't survive, there is noting else to talk.

on the clients/customers' perspective, of course they are happy to see this, who cares will you making any profit or able to survive or not?
and they can always wait for another suckers to offer cheap deals, no one is responsible for you business except yourself.














This thread is derailed and it hurts.

thread closed.