Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

[yamapi]

Well, you are challenging the standards of photographers if you are REALLY paying, so then why are you so willing to pay the un-sure market rates for the model when in the first place, you are not even sure whether the model are indeed experience or professional.

Sorry, after your long self-defending posts, I still see only 2 points i.e.

1) Both parties (photographers + models) are providing a service and yet only one party gets paid.

2) Hoping to get more less "egoistic" FREE photographers and ideally FREE models for your non-profit Drumming promoting.

I agree
Just to add on.

1)You mention selecting a model base on her charisma which in ths context i believe technically equates to surfae skimming.
There is nothing mentioned about checking her background.
2)when it comes to photographer however,you have tons of reasons listed out to skip payment to a photorapher and even citing many other 'justifications' like "this is a photography community and people should share etc".
There are also more attacks on your part accusing many photographers as egoistic and engaging them doesn't mean they're up to par with their rate.


These 2 points that i concluded gave me enough reasonsto believe that they are biased.
And if you would like to know.

You are willing to pay a model and even begin selecting her by her "charisma".
The charisma here i believe equates to physical aspect and happily,there isn't any co-relation to her performances.
The proper way one should enage a model should be checking on her backgrounds.
When it comes to paying photographers, you went personal about their personality and even mentioned "even if you are a good photographer,doesn't mean others will pay you handsomely".

If someone can deliver work equal to what they qoute then who are you to argue?

so my displease is "why are you willing to engage a commercial model by'charisma' but yet attacking the personality of photographers when you are paying him/her to shoot the same.

I try to put it as objective as possible.


SN:I apologise if the word "you" appears to be confrontational because it was not meant to.=)

 

[ortega]

Very simple - No neccessasity for defending statement if everything is one-sided here - as mention (the Truth) it's a Photography Forum.

As regards to getting Free Drumming Photographer here at CS (I think that's in a way creating a Sparks here, when it's clearly explain the way I see it - which is different from you all) - that's not so true too depending on how ones look at it (to me It's a WIn-Win) We have Video Guys & Cameramans who are Drummers too of course who does that for us monthly. To each his own,,,

You have your point, so do I - peace.eee

Let's move on from here ... cheers !

Eric

i believe that RudimentalDrummer has agreed to disagree
so lets move on back to the topic

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Bro yamapi..no problem what you mention bear some truth - and you are not totally wrong. SO I apologies to whoever I had offended out here.

As for Models I just look at Charisma but that's how I choose.

Thanks

Cheers lets move on...Bros !

 

[fotoudavid]

Show the money...........show the money.............

 

[xia0taizi]

are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.

 

[yamapi]

are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.

And that mentality is one we should habour?

 

[sprintist]

all the photographers are debating so much but are any of those models intended to be ''mentioned indirectly'' involved to learn of something that they should not, cannot, or encouraged not to do?

its good maybe if this whole thread is printed and filed up as a manual, when those models demand a pay, show them the manual and tell them its a TFCD no matter what. haha

i like reading this thread, its pretty heated up but if it doesn't make sense to the so-called models then all the efforts are wasted isn't it. by voicing out, maybe we should make it heard.

newbie models time for cd ok!?

 

[wakaowalao]

are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.

Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

Win-win situation too.

 

[sin77]

u dun pay them, the "models" tell u time for sleeping

 

[Sion]

We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

Can tell how to qualify to become "the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer" or not? :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

newbie models time for cd ok!?

the thing is

these models are not looking to do it long term

they just want money to buy their handbags, clothing and jewellery. no money, tfcd.. they not interested in the photographs actually, they only want the money

 

[Yezrah]

Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

Win-win situation too.

It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.

 

[madmacs]

It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.

think you going to upset some of those photographers by labelling them desperate :sweatsm:

 

[catchlights]

Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

Win-win situation too.

why don't you propose all newbie model must do "NS", offer TFCD for six months, must go thru at least 20 TFCD sessions, certified by senior models, than can graduate as "qualified model", start charging money?? :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[catchlights]

the thing is

these models are not looking to do it long term

they just want money to buy their handbags, clothing and jewellery. no money, tfcd.. they not interested in the photographs actually, they only want the money

They want money, also want photos at the same time.

you forgot liao meh??

 

[night86mare]

They want money, also want photos at the same time.

you forgot liao meh??

you tell them reduce rate if have photographs

you see what they choose

photographs still less than them to money.. reason why they want is to show on their personal site.. then can also use to get more people to shoot them.. therefore more money!

even xmm can prioritise ok!

 

[catchlights]

It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.

hmmmm..... :think:

so next time some one want to get better response in Services Offered / Wanted, must include the word "desperate" in the thread title?? :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[Yezrah]

think you going to upset some of those photographers by labelling them desperate :sweatsm:

Please don't quote me in context. It happened before and was given demerit points for my words which I have no intention to mean it this way or that way. But thanks for the kind advice. In a public forum, different people always have different interpretations of what were being said, though everyone is reading the same words.

 

[Leong23]

GWC :heart: Photography
XMM :heart: Modelling

OR

GWC :heart: XMM
XMM :heart: MONEY

:bsmilie:

 

[Dream Merchant]

GWC and many 'censored' :heart: XMMs

XMMs with such knowledge :devil: GWCs and 'censored' for their lurve of $$$

XMMs :heart: togs because they can be baaay-bied, pampered, get their all-consuming and :heart: $$$ AND get FOC photos. Ever heard of the phrase, "I'll get him eating out of my hand!"?

Oh, some XMM or even so-called TFCD XMMs also demand FOC MUAs, FOC private transport, FOC food and drinks and you can be sure these don't include hawker center or kopitiam hor! :bsmilie: And don't fourgett the 888 DI photos you MUUUUST gif dem!

Alamak! This is beginning to sound like the typical and entirely un-original PRC female seductions and ploys! Sekali got people posting about XMM sex and marniiiie scandals on CS! LOL!