Who are we? What are you?
- Thread starter Deadpoet
- Start date
- Status
FD lens? That was more than 15 years ago! When did Canon introduced the EOS system? 1988?Deadpoet said:
As long as one is not using photography to earn a living, he is not a professional. I don't think many professional photographers have that much time to come in here to post.
don't worry no offence takenstudent said:Relax! This is a serious thread. But a few light-hearted OTs can relieve stress a little.
I have learned not to be sensitive to forum posts
student said:Relax! This is a serious thread. But a few light-hearted OTs can relieve stress a little.
:thumbsup:i'm just random passerby love to admire some of the works here.
The definition of professional may different from one to another. However I'm agree with some points Deadpoet stated. I cannot accept those kind of standard when some people proclaim themselves as a professional photographer just because they own big camera big lense big whatever - or some others who claimed to be a professional DI artist / graphic designer / whatever just because they know how to operate photoshop - or those who just download free template from internet load it in their dreamweaver change the content and market themselves as web designer.
But once again perhabs that's just me and my disappointment on those people who set this kind of mindset on public.
The definition of professional may different from one to another. However I'm agree with some points Deadpoet stated. I cannot accept those kind of standard when some people proclaim themselves as a professional photographer just because they own big camera big lense big whatever - or some others who claimed to be a professional DI artist / graphic designer / whatever just because they know how to operate photoshop - or those who just download free template from internet load it in their dreamweaver change the content and market themselves as web designer.
But once again perhabs that's just me and my disappointment on those people who set this kind of mindset on public.
ortega said:
one said,
if you can understand - good - that's design!
if you cant's understand - even better - that's art!
*qouted just for fun lah*
However seriously, one should not hide behind "art flag" to comprimise on lousy mistakes.
Deadpoet said:
I suspect it's the strong tendency of people to kow tow to people "above" them and look down in utter contempt to people they think are "lesser" than oneself. Look at how people treat e.g. low-income workers like maids or cleaners. In this environment, who wouldn't be afraid to admit being "less" than someone else?
But it's really a Kopitiam topic, isn't it?
Lighten up, usage of english is complex.
A person says he's a professional !@#$
B person says he shoots professionally
C person says he charges professionally
D person says he charges at professional rates.
It all means different things. But reading at numerous post, if a person shoots professionally he ought to by now, knows wat gears are preferred or even recommended in the market.
A person says he's a professional !@#$
B person says he shoots professionally
C person says he charges professionally
D person says he charges at professional rates.
It all means different things. But reading at numerous post, if a person shoots professionally he ought to by now, knows wat gears are preferred or even recommended in the market.
Should we be bothered by self-proclaimed "Pro" at all? Similar to the videographer's thread over at kopitiam, there are people who simply like to brag and the are those who dare not call themselves a photographer.
I confirm won't dare to call myself pro or photographer, I always believed I'm a newbie and amatuer. It's people who like to brand the names on meGenesis said:
Hi Deadpoet,
I have seen and read many posts by you and appreciate that you know your photography !
At some point (and it happens) we think, "thats it... that is the last straw" I am banging my head against a wall.
As far as being a professional goes ....
I have done vocals with professionals and have been accepted as professional (Ha !)
I simply liked doing what I was doing and was reasonable at it (Professional ? crap)
I spent many years as an electronic technician and was good at it. Was sought after by some other companies.
(Professional ? crap). I was just good at what I liked to do.
NOW. I am looking forward to going into photography for a living (if you have seen my photo's you would probably laugh).
But, I am going into a field that "Professionals" are in. And I am going to do well.
When I get paid for what I produce; I am still doing what I like to do. I will never wear a hat with the words, "Professional"
To me. There are those that take photo's (bless them all)
There are those that dedicate their whole thoughts to taking photo's (Love them all)
And there are those that are masters of the craft (I bow to the few).
Sorr for the long winded; possibly dumb reply.
Cheers
I have seen and read many posts by you and appreciate that you know your photography !
At some point (and it happens) we think, "thats it... that is the last straw" I am banging my head against a wall.
As far as being a professional goes ....
I have done vocals with professionals and have been accepted as professional (Ha !)
I simply liked doing what I was doing and was reasonable at it (Professional ? crap)
I spent many years as an electronic technician and was good at it. Was sought after by some other companies.
(Professional ? crap). I was just good at what I liked to do.
NOW. I am looking forward to going into photography for a living (if you have seen my photo's you would probably laugh).
But, I am going into a field that "Professionals" are in. And I am going to do well.
When I get paid for what I produce; I am still doing what I like to do. I will never wear a hat with the words, "Professional"
To me. There are those that take photo's (bless them all)
There are those that dedicate their whole thoughts to taking photo's (Love them all)
And there are those that are masters of the craft (I bow to the few).
Sorr for the long winded; possibly dumb reply.
Cheers
If I call myself professional people would have high expectations, which I'm sure I couldn't live up to. I'd rather not disappoint.
Judging by what Deadpoet has been writing in ClubSnap, I'm confident to say that he has a sharp mind and often an equally sharp tongue (by exercising free speech which some might not be able to tolerate). Personally, I have nothing against Deadpoet and like to read what he blatantly writes.
This thread is another good one about a trend which I'm sure many of us have observed ourselves but remained quiet until Deadpoet decided to pen down his thoughts.
I don't believe S'pore is the only country in the world whose citizens don't want to earn money on the side. It's worldwide, and I also see it here in Australia too but the trend appears to be more feverish in S'pore. Perhaps, S'poreans don't have enough money because they aren't paid well enough? (I'm not asking for an answer to this question.)
Quite expectedly, some ClubSnap members kindly contributed dictionary definitions (although I don't see how much it helps in this discussion). Anybody who owns a dictionary can easily distinguish 2 possible definitions of the word "professional", and I won't bother repeating them here. Personally, I feel that this is the real problem -- having 2 meanings.
For a long long time, I have already noticed how this could create conflict among some photographers. Those who studied and graduated with a degree in photography should have every right to call themselves professionals. Those who perform photography for a living (with or without that degree) and earn more than 50% of their income, can also rightly call themselves professionals.
Back in the days when I was very much a hobbyist, I didn't want to readily call myself a photographer. I just said I like taking photos. As time went by, after doing some events, I gave myself that title but never called myself a professional (because of how the dictionary defined it).
Even though I'm now employed as photographer (and earn all of my salary by performing photography), I don't want to call myself a professional. It's because I'm not a trained expert (I don't have a photography degree) and humbly, won't proclaim myself too strongly as an expert. Instead, I prefer to call myself an "experienced" photographer, and this naturally would confuse many.
On the other hand, I'm just as confused myself. Here's why.
At work, I earn a salary to photograph what paying customers want. This salary puts food in my mouth and keeps myself under a solid roof. I could be considered a professional but to confuse you more, I'm not even employed full-time. Away from work, I often photograph models privately/leisurely on a "I shoot what I like" basis without being paid. I could be considered an amateur.
It's like switching modes.
When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them I'm a photographer but I can't decide if I'm a professional or an amateur. I almost always don't use the word "professional" and replace it with "do it for a living". When away from work, I say I'm an "amateur" or "just a hobby".
You don't get it do you?
So do I.
Sorry for causing anyone brain cramps.
This thread is another good one about a trend which I'm sure many of us have observed ourselves but remained quiet until Deadpoet decided to pen down his thoughts.
I don't believe S'pore is the only country in the world whose citizens don't want to earn money on the side. It's worldwide, and I also see it here in Australia too but the trend appears to be more feverish in S'pore. Perhaps, S'poreans don't have enough money because they aren't paid well enough? (I'm not asking for an answer to this question.)
Quite expectedly, some ClubSnap members kindly contributed dictionary definitions (although I don't see how much it helps in this discussion). Anybody who owns a dictionary can easily distinguish 2 possible definitions of the word "professional", and I won't bother repeating them here. Personally, I feel that this is the real problem -- having 2 meanings.
For a long long time, I have already noticed how this could create conflict among some photographers. Those who studied and graduated with a degree in photography should have every right to call themselves professionals. Those who perform photography for a living (with or without that degree) and earn more than 50% of their income, can also rightly call themselves professionals.
Back in the days when I was very much a hobbyist, I didn't want to readily call myself a photographer. I just said I like taking photos. As time went by, after doing some events, I gave myself that title but never called myself a professional (because of how the dictionary defined it).
Even though I'm now employed as photographer (and earn all of my salary by performing photography), I don't want to call myself a professional. It's because I'm not a trained expert (I don't have a photography degree) and humbly, won't proclaim myself too strongly as an expert. Instead, I prefer to call myself an "experienced" photographer, and this naturally would confuse many.
On the other hand, I'm just as confused myself. Here's why.
At work, I earn a salary to photograph what paying customers want. This salary puts food in my mouth and keeps myself under a solid roof. I could be considered a professional but to confuse you more, I'm not even employed full-time. Away from work, I often photograph models privately/leisurely on a "I shoot what I like" basis without being paid. I could be considered an amateur.
It's like switching modes.
When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them I'm a photographer but I can't decide if I'm a professional or an amateur. I almost always don't use the word "professional" and replace it with "do it for a living". When away from work, I say I'm an "amateur" or "just a hobby".
You don't get it do you?
So do I.
Sorry for causing anyone brain cramps.
Thought I should stirr the pot a bit before I turn in for the evening.
Maybe, loudly claimning that they are a "professional" photographer, makes them feel better about themselves. If this really makes them have better self esteem, well, so be it, let them be. I will shut up.
But still, they are only make believe professional, professional in their own mind.
Good night, just thought some food for thought.
Maybe, loudly claimning that they are a "professional" photographer, makes them feel better about themselves. If this really makes them have better self esteem, well, so be it, let them be. I will shut up.
But still, they are only make believe professional, professional in their own mind.
Good night, just thought some food for thought.
ptwong said:
i couldn't agree more.
call oneself whatever one likes. from hobbyist, to amateur, professional and to 'master of light and shadows'.
it doesn't affect me personally that much just as what my neighbours name their children.
without the existence of "cowboy / hit-n-run professionals" around in the market, one would be harder pressed to find a more obvious and convenient comparison of 'quality' (subjective).
sad will be the day when ALL "real professionals" are pushed out of the market by the "hit-n-runners", instead of the other way around.
whether the market is a self moderating one is open to debate, but it is encouraging to see most of the posts in this thread point to a more mature thinking with regards to the issue.
Deadpoet said:
Dude, its hard to go out and tell your customer you are an amatuer or hobbist and want them to give you the job. Its all about marketing yourself, rather than a title to make one feels good.
- Status
Similar threads
