WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Here is a "new" user to OM System experience.
It is NOT true that that M43 is an outdated irrelevant sensor format like @ricohflex mentioning he threw away his 2mp camera.
That is an irrelevant comparison. Even though the OM1ii has only 20mp compared to other FF cameras with up to 61mp,
the main point is it is very light weight and compact (the lenses) but is still able to provide very pleasing and usable images.

If you have friends / relatives looking for a new camera system, you can share the following video link for an alternative for them to consider to see if a M43 system meet their needs.

 

[JW73]

Take a broad view on the available formats and what does it mean in real life. M43 is still relevant to today’s demand for wildlife photography.

 

[ricohflex]

Far too many reviewers/commenters have warned that OMDS made a Fatal Error to concentrate on wildlife.
Since OMDS refused to listen, the failure and winding up of the company is inevitable.
MFT in 2008 was acceptable. MFT in 2024 is obsolete.

By Obsolete, it does not mean the MFT cameras and lenses suddenly stop working.
Obsolete means it does not make any sense for NEW camera buyers in 2024 and beyond to buy into a MFT system.
Indeed, that is what world wide market share tells everyone.

The answer is so obvious.
But there will always be die hard fans.
Usually die hard fans are the ones with Sunken Costs. They fell into the MFT hole so deep that they cannot get out.

The comments usually refer to ordinary people who may want to buy a camera.
Not referring to tycoons with so much money they can buy EVERYTHING - large format, medium format, Full Frame, APS-C, MFT.
And then say if their mood fits them on a certain day, then they bring out one of these.

That is why it is important for normal people (who are limited by a budget) to stay with Sony or Nikon or Canon mirrorless ILC.
If they cannot afford, then start with an APS-C model.
Upgrade later to Full Frame bodies.

In the video, the person uses a Canon EF lens with adapter on a RF mount body.
That is precisely the point.
The USER BASES of Canon and Nikon are so humongous.

They have past lenses that they can use with their latest Canon RF or Nikon Z mount bodies.
They do not need to spend money all over again. It is a tremendous saving. Do not under-estimate the importance of this.
MFT lost the small and light argument long ago.

Now buyers have Sony A7 C Mk2, Canon R7 and Nikon Z50 if you want small and light.
There is NO future in MFT for new camera buyers.
If they spend a lot of money on MFT gear in 2024 and beyond, it is like throwing money into the gutter. Very wasteful.

 

[Pitachu]

I started using Olympus camera with the tiny EM5-mk3. I love it and have done lots of trekking and macro shots with a 12-60 (24-120), a 60mm Macro(120mm) and a 100-300 (200-600) fitting everything in my WAIST POUCH! numbers in ( ) are Full Frame equivalent. It is my start to nature and wildlife photography and if I would to make the choice again, I would still choose Olympus. Why not?

When Mobile Phones eat more of compact cameras market share, it only make sense for Olympus to focus on wildlife, since it have the 2x focal multiplier advantage. It does not make sense for Olympus, with such a wide variety of M43 lenses, to jump to manufacturing Full Frame, and write off its M43 lenses or produce an adapter. Seriously, how many Sony, Canon or Nikon users uses APS or legacy lenses, even though they can? Most photographers I know will only keep 1 or 2 legacy lenses due to various sentimental reasons and sell off the rest to use the latest lenses.

@ricohflex, don't keep talking about MFT users with huge sunken costs. We are NOT tycoons, but seriously, my first MFT setup above cost less than $3000. And 5 years later, I can easily sell them for 60%. Net loss is $1200 if I am forced to sell and change brand, but of course, I did not. I only sold my EM5iii camera body and upgrade to OM-1 to try wild life photography and I love it too.

If you fly drones, you probably already prepared to write off more than $1200 if your drone crash. Warranty only covers if you can return the crash body, but if you drop it down a cliff or sea, you lose everything. Just witness someone loses a drone brand new drone not to long ago. And even at $3000, it is less than a overseas photo trip. You do not need to be a tycoon to save up to go for these trips, or to have an alternate camera system. If you are still bitching about sunken costs, it only shows that you have not written off a laptop or a old hifi.

Too bad if you are one of those that bought a Full Frame 600mm F4 lenses for $20,000!!!!!! But M43 users are not those with such sunken cost!!!!! Your idea of sunken costs came from such Full Frame exotic gears like their 600mm F4 lenses etc. M43 users lenses cost much less than that except for the recent OM 150-400 lenses. I met some birders who bought the OM 150-400 and they actually have a full frame system but they usually use it on a tripod. For tracking flying birds and moving around a lot, they actually prefer the OM System solution.

The nice surprise for me is OM System continue to add on other features to the OM-1 and I am really apply they added GND on the mk2. I usually shoot landscape with my Sony Full Frame, but when I am on a birding trip, I do not carry 2 camera system. And the OM-1 provides me the flexibility of being able to shoot some landscape shots with electronic ND and GND filters. I just need to bring along a tiny ultra wide angle lenses

p.s. The Sony 7Cii is not light if you pair it with decent GM lenses. Just used the 7CR (same body weight) last night with the 24-70GM2 with a flash! Yeah, you can pair it with the Sony 28-60 pancake lenses and cheat yourself that it is a lightweight setup. But go and compare the image quality. This setup lost to my EM5-mk3. I did the comparison some years back.

Far too many reviewers/commenters have warned that OMDS made a Fatal Error to concentrate on wildlife.
Since OMDS refused to listen, the failure and winding up of the company is inevitable.
MFT in 2008 was acceptable. MFT in 2024 is obsolete.

By Obsolete, it does not mean the MFT cameras and lenses suddenly stop working.
Obsolete means it does not make any sense for NEW camera buyers in 2024 and beyond to buy into a MFT system.
Indeed, that is what world wide market share tells everyone.

The answer is so obvious.
But there will always be die hard fans.
Usually die hard fans are the ones with Sunken Costs. They fell into the MFT hole so deep that they cannot get out.

The comments usually refer to ordinary people who may want to buy a camera.
Not referring to tycoons with so much money they can buy EVERYTHING - large format, medium format, Full Frame, APS-C, MFT.
And then say if their mood fits them on a certain day, then they bring out one of these.

That is why it is important for normal people (who are limited by a budget) to stay with Sony or Nikon or Canon mirrorless ILC.
If they cannot afford, then start with an APS-C model.
Upgrade later to Full Frame bodies.

In the video, the person uses a Canon EF lens with adapter on a RF mount body.
That is precisely the point.
The USER BASES of Canon and Nikon are so humongous.

They have past lenses that they can use with their latest Canon RF or Nikon Z mount bodies.
They do not need to spend money all over again. It is a tremendous saving. Do not under-estimate the importance of this.
MFT lost the small and light argument long ago.

Now buyers have Sony A7 C Mk2, Canon R7 and Nikon Z50 if you want small and light.
There is NO future in MFT for new camera buyers.
If they spend a lot of money on MFT gear in 2024 and beyond, it is like throwing money into the gutter. Very wasteful.

 

[Pitachu]

Ever since Olympus / OMDS announced that it is moving towards Computational Photography, they have developed several new features for photographers. These features may not appeal to all photographers (eg. portrait, food etc) but certainly appeal to some of OMDS target niches. OMDS has even come up with a Summer school to educate its users how to make use of these features

 

[Pitachu]

OM System is not dead, but coming out of yet another new camera.

My Guess would be either
1) OM-1x (update on E-M1x but probably with the 25mp used by Panasonic or with 240fps since Sony A9iii now already has 120fps)
2) OM-10 (since OMDS have already updated the EM-1 to OM-1 and EM5 to OM-5)

Both are not exciting to me as I personally do not like cameras with built-in vertical grips (ie. EM-1x) and if I want a simpler more basic camera for street photo, I would prefer a updated Pen Fii than a OM-10.

OM Digital rumored to announce one more new MFT camera in autumn… – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

This is probably the real reason why Olympus sold off its camera division.
It was not the popularity of Full Frame or APS or Olympus being stubborn.

Camera sales have been wiped out by Mobile phones, from 120 million units sold in 2010 to 8 million units sold in 2023.
This means that sales has dropped to about 5% of what it used to be in 2010.
For brands with smaller market share, they will need to restructure and change to contract manufacturing as it is no longer viable to maintain a factory of workers for production.

New charts showing the trend of the digital camera market – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

Guess there must be a significant market size and demand for Manfrotto to come up with a rugged battery for the OM-1.

Manfrotto has announced a new battery for the OM-1 and OM-1II – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Professional photographers covered the recent 2024 Olympics in Paris, France.
According to various reports the 3 dominant camera brands used widely were Canon, Sony and Nikon.
All 3 brands make full frame sensor cameras.

If one is a professional photographer chosen to cover the Olympics, it is a big deal.
You don't want to screw up. This is where you separate the wheat from the chaff.
You don't want to get fired or reprimanded for NOT getting the good enough photo of an important Olympics event.

Most of all, you don't want that to happen because you stupidly chose LOUSY (inadequate/sub-standard) equipment to do the job.
Hint .... MFT.

Although OMDS has trumpeted MFT advantage of a 2x crop factor enabling smaller long telephoto "wildlife" lenses.
It seems the REALITY proves that very few or NONE of the professional photographers covering Olympics, chose Micro Four Thirds equipment.
The reason is simple. They do not want to get demoted/ fired / sacked by their photo/news agency.

Credit: dpreivew.com

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex obviously you are not aware that the focal range for shooting birds / smaller wildlife are very different from those use for sports LOL.
Also, equipment for News agencies are usually sponsored in exchange for Air Time, which is why you see large groups of Sony / Canon equipment which only these 2 giants can afford. Even Nikon is not used as often. With only a 4% market share, OM Digital and Panasonic are not able to afford these kind of sponsorship.

Don't talk crap about equipment failing. It only shows your immaturity and ignorance. I used to work with a events company using Canon and Sony cameras, both of which failed just as often as any other brand. Our Sony cameras have got cases of motherboard burnt and Canon have cameras and lenses that fail to focus. I am NOT saying my OM cameras do not fail (my friend OM-1 did) but I tend to put my OM-1 in more weather prone situations (eg. in the rain) more than my Sony and it has not failed yet.

So far, OMDS is the only brand that puts an IP rating on its OM-1, which Sony, Canon and other brands have been avoiding. I wonder why.

Professinal photographers covered the recent 2024 Olympics in Paris, France.
According to various reports the 3 dominant camera brands used widely were Canon, Sony and Nikon.
All 3 brands make full frame sensor cameras.

If one is a professional photographer chosen to cover the Olympics, it is a big deal.
You don't want to screw up. This is where you separate the wheat from the chaff.
You don't want to get fired or reprimanded for NOT getting the good enough photo of an important Olympics event.

Most of all, you don't want that to happen because you stupidly chose LOUSY (inadequate/sub-standard) equipment to do the job.
Hint .... MFT.

Although OMDS has trumpeted MFT advantage of a 2x crop factor enabling smaller long telephoto "wildlife" lenses.
It seems the REALITY proves that very few or NONE of the professional photographers covering Olympics, chose Micro Four Thirds equipment.
The reason is simple. They do not want to get demoted/ fired / sacked by their photo/news agency.

Credit: dpreivew.com

 

[Pitachu]

The combined units of cameras sold for Panasonic and OM Systems is actually more than Fujifilm or more than 50% of Nikon in 2023.
Figures are probably for Japan but should be quite representative of the world market.
M43 market share although small compared to Canon or Sony, is still significant enough

Nikkei published the worldwide market share 2023: Panasonic and OM Digital on 5th and 6th spot – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

This youtube video is not by any OM Ambassadors but more on the current state of technology on how much small sensors have improved.

This also reinforce my earlier post on manufacturers are making lower resolution for their top end models and
smaller sensor APS cameras are becoming more popular than full frame.

 

[ricohflex]

Credit: thephoblographer.com

BCN ranking

In latest BCN report, Canon takes 1st and 2nd spot.
9 out of the top 10 are APSC sensor models. (if I am not wrong)
Olympus E-P7 is MFT.

This is just the Japan market. Not World Wide market.
And BCN does cherry pick some stores to populate their statistics.
There could be some statistics manipulation to please the big clients Canon and Sony.

This indicates that Japan economy is down and times are bad.
Consumers buy the cheap budget camera models - not the top flagship models.

Lumix and OMDS will pay dearly for their stupidity in refusing to make APSC sensor cameras.
Especially Lumix - which could use the APSC as an introductory bridge to bring users into their Full Frame series.
Which Sony, Canon and Nikon are all doing.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex for the last few years you have been rattling on and on how good is Full Frame! Just because the latest BCN report does not have Full Frame anymore and has 9 out of 10 APSC sensor models, you switch sides to APS-C.

BTW, the 9th camera, a MFT camera is the Lumix G100D. (see the latest BCN report below).

The main point is not who should have made which sensor camera. Every manufacturer has its own vision.
And MFT was not wrong. After the general market has tried Full Frame cameras, they realized that the most important feature for them is not largest sensor size, highest resolution or dynamic range. What is more important to most people is portability and compactness, not because larger sensor is no good, but no longer relevant, especially when the only output is social media.

I have earlier posted a video on why sensor size does not matter as much anymore.

Who knows, the general photographers may even take another step back from APSC to MFT in a few years time
MFT is afterall, the most portable interchangeable lenses camera for any one stepping up from Mobile phones. There are already a projects on Kickstarter producing cameras that uses the phone as a screen and allows the wide range of M43 lenses to be mounted.
It is obvious why these manufactuers chose MFT instead of APS-C as MFT has small lenses mounted on the back of a phone,
And this setup provides the best display for phototaking.

BCN report June 2024: Sony takes the #1 spot from Canon in Japan - Photo Rumors

After Canon reported declining sales in Japan, it is not a surprise that they lost the #1 to Sony based on the latest BCN report for June 2024: Sony 33.3% Canon 25.7% Nikon 17.4% Fuji 10.7% Others 12.9% Here are the top 10 best-selling cameras: Sony ZV-E10 Canon EOS R50 Canon EOS R10 Sony a6400 […]

photorumors.com

Credit: thephoblographer.com

BCN ranking

In latest BCN report, Canon takes 1st and 2nd spot.
9 out of the top 10 are APSC sensor models. (if I am not wrong)
Olympus E-P7 is MFT.

This is just the Japan market. Not World Wide market.
And BCN does cherry pick some stores to populate their statistics.
There could be some statistics manipulation to please the big clients Canon and Sony.

This indicates that Japan economy is down and times are bad.
Consumers buy the cheap budget camera models - not the top flagship models.

Lumix and OMDS will pay dearly for their stupidity in refusing to make APSC sensor cameras.
Especially Lumix - which could use the APSC as an introductory bridge to bring users into their Full Frame series.
Which Sony, Canon and Nikon are all doing.

 

[one eye jack]

OMDS continue to be in the red.

OM Digital Results 2021-2023

• 2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
• 2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
• 2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

Sales are growing little by little, and the annual deficit is shrinking, but it is clear that the company is still in the red. Olympus' imaging business has been restarted under the umbrella of the investment fund Japan Industrial Partners, but it is interesting to wonder whether these results are going according to plan.

Since becoming OM Digital, the speed of development seems to have slowed down compared to the Olympus era. Recently, they have been promoting outdoor concepts both domestically and overseas. Looking at OM Digital's business information page ...

In modern society, while technological advances have dramatically changed our lives, they have also caused digital fatigue and exposed people to excessive stress. In addition to this background, there is also growing awareness of maintaining a sustainable natural environment, and people are beginning to seek out nature (the outdoors) and spiritual enrichment.

OM Digital Solutions sees these social changes as an opportunity for growth, and by accurately grasping the essential desires of consumers, will engage in two main businesses.

The first is to create and provide experiential value that enhances the outdoor life in the consumer business domain. In this domain, we will further enhance the potential of the OM SYSTEM brand, which has a strong affinity with the outdoors.

The other is that, aiming for sustainable growth into the future, we will utilize the technological assets we have cultivated to date and take on the challenge of entering the solutions business field, which contributes to solving business and social issues. *From OM Digital Solutions Business Information

( Author's opinion )

I hope that OM Digital will achieve a profit in operating profit this year. It would be great if they could release a best-selling camera or lens. Outdoor-related products include the OM SYSTEM Curry and the CDC Tri-Base Set . Apparel ( part 1 , part 2 ) is also on sale. OM Digital also announced the E-M1 Mark III ASTRO, a camera dedicated to astronomy this year.

OMデジタル 赤字継続中 2021-2023　デジカメライフ

Thread views at 112k.

 

[Pitachu]

When OM Digital first took over in 2021, it suffered a lost of 1.8 Billion Yen (US$12.8m) and sales is at 21.9 Billion Yen (US$156M.
In 2023,, the loss has reduced to 210million Yen (US$1.5M) and sales has increased by 38%.
Really hope this is encouraging news to JIP, the main investor behind OMDS.

Just brought my OM-1 to a Flower Photography workshop and the trainer happen to use Olympus too and showed 2 or us how to use Focus Stacking. It is similar to Focus Bracketing where most other brands provide but for the OM-1, it will stack them automatically on the camera instead of having to download on a PC and use other software to do it. This is ideal because if we are not happy with the result, we can tweak the focus steps and shoot again on site.

OMDS continue to be in the red.

OM Digital Results 2021-2023

• 2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
• 2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
• 2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

Sales are growing little by little, and the annual deficit is shrinking, but it is clear that the company is still in the red. Olympus' imaging business has been restarted under the umbrella of the investment fund Japan Industrial Partners, but it is interesting to wonder whether these results are going according to plan.

Since becoming OM Digital, the speed of development seems to have slowed down compared to the Olympus era. Recently, they have been promoting outdoor concepts both domestically and overseas. Looking at OM Digital's business information page ...

In modern society, while technological advances have dramatically changed our lives, they have also caused digital fatigue and exposed people to excessive stress. In addition to this background, there is also growing awareness of maintaining a sustainable natural environment, and people are beginning to seek out nature (the outdoors) and spiritual enrichment.

OM Digital Solutions sees these social changes as an opportunity for growth, and by accurately grasping the essential desires of consumers, will engage in two main businesses.

The first is to create and provide experiential value that enhances the outdoor life in the consumer business domain. In this domain, we will further enhance the potential of the OM SYSTEM brand, which has a strong affinity with the outdoors.

The other is that, aiming for sustainable growth into the future, we will utilize the technological assets we have cultivated to date and take on the challenge of entering the solutions business field, which contributes to solving business and social issues. *From OM Digital Solutions Business Information

( Author's opinion )

I hope that OM Digital will achieve a profit in operating profit this year. It would be great if they could release a best-selling camera or lens. Outdoor-related products include the OM SYSTEM Curry and the CDC Tri-Base Set . Apparel ( part 1 , part 2 ) is also on sale. OM Digital also announced the E-M1 Mark III ASTRO, a camera dedicated to astronomy this year.

OMデジタル 赤字継続中 2021-2023　デジカメライフ

Thread views at 112k.

 

[one eye jack]

The future of micro four thirds.

Olympus EM10 mk3 IBIS VS Sony a7c fullframe.

 

[ricohflex]

Die hard fans become very bitter when confronted with the truth.
At first there is strong denial. [as in Robin Wong's emphatic video that Olympus (camera division) will NOT close shop]
Then after the inevitable happens, die hard fans get angry with anyone reminding them of the facts.

The death of MFT is basically a normal technological progression over the passage of time.
No need to indulge in personal attacks.
It is also a very logical business decision.

When MFT market share is so small that statisticians cannot represent it in a world wide market share pie chart.
The consumer market is telling OMDS and Panasonic Lumix something, that both do not like to hear.

 

[Pitachu]

I have been fairly active in various photo groups, workshops and tours the last few years and there is not one Olympus user I met that is bitter.

Look at the number of cars in Singapore. There is closed to 1 million cars in Singapore.
On the average each car costs about $150,000 nowadays.
These 1 million owners are writing off $15,000 every year.

My OM System cost less than $7K.
If I can use it for 4 to 5 years and OM System don't exist anymore , what is there to be bitter about?
I am really enjoying my OM System more than my car!

This is not a personal attack, but don't keep fogging your mind with the idea that M43 is going to die and avoid it all costs.
If you have a use for OM System computational features and the 2x focal multiplier, just get it and enjoy it for the next 4 years while it is still available.
If you have no use for these features like my son who shoot portraits and video and prefer full frame, then stay with full frame.

I have earlier sold my Olympus 60mm Macro to a friend (and he refused to sell it back to me!)
I rented the Sony 90mm Macro for a outing and the experience is really not desirable.
I then re-purchased the Olympus 60mm and I enjoyed it so much using it to shoot flowers at another photo outing.
The Focus Stacking is so convenient and it is done in camera, without having to export a group of pictures and use a software to stack.
Plus a number of other customizable features which I can do for wildlife, macro, landscapes etc. You really need to try the OM-1ii.

Die hard fans become very bitter when confronted with the truth.
At first there is strong denial. [as in Robin Wong's emphatic video that Olympus (camera division) will NOT close shop]
Then after the inevitable happens, die hard fans get angry with anyone reminding them of the facts.

The death of MFT is basically a normal technological progression over the passage of time.
No need to indulge in personal attacks.
It is also a very logical business decision.

When MFT market share is so small that statisticians cannot represent it in a world wide market share pie chart.
The consumer market is telling OMDS and Panasonic Lumix something, that both do not like to hear.

 

[Pitachu]

Every camera manufacturer (from compact, M43, APS, FF, Medium Format etc) need to find some unique niche to capture a portion of the market, no matter how small.

OM-System / Olympus managed to focus and capture a portion of the nature / wildlife / birding market and those interested in its computational photography features (eg. Live Composite, Focus Stacking etc).

In the case of Panasonic, it is smart enough to innovate and include the ARRI Log C3 profile as an option. Yes, of course it is not the same as an ARRI videocam, but for the size and price, it is a very good alternative. When I was with an events company, the dressing room is so small that we have no choice but to film the kids getting their make up done and have no choice but to use a handheld DSLR to film that portion.

Maybe one day M43 will die-off when other formats can include all the features and benefits M43 is now offering, BUT has not or do not want to.
eg. Electronic ND Filters etc. Maybe the processing power required is too high for larger formats to include, without increasing the size of the camera body significantly. After all, Sony do have Electronic ND Filters on its top end Venice video cam.