WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[one eye jack]

Now it's back to 10pm. London time which mean 6am. Singapore time.

@Pitachu, whether it is fullframe or m43 video it is only good for social media or an 65 to 100 inch 4k TV. It is for amateur videographers who cannot afford the real cinema camera like Arri or Red. Nikon acquiring Red means they are getting serious about video. This guy used a canon R5 for cinema screen movie but admits he got lucky but if he had to do it again then no more mirrorless camera.

 

[Pitachu]

@one eye jack 4K resolution is only 8.2 megapixel. 8K resolution is about 33megapixel.
It is no wonder that Sony A7S3 is only 12 megapixel.

Arri, Red and Burano cost a bomb, but they are not designed for Mirrorless Cameras users looking for a hybrid camera that can shoot photos and record decent 4k, 5.7K or 8k videos. But I wouldn't call the GH series or Sony A7S or FX series for amateurs. I know so many photographers shooting videos with these cameras and make decent money as professionals.

@Pitachu, whether it is fullframe or m43 video it is only good for social media or an 65 to 100 inch 4k TV. It is for amateur videographers who cannot afford the real cinema camera like Arri or Red. Nikon acquiring Red means they are getting serious about video. This guy used a canon R5 for cinema screen movie but admits he got lucky but if he had to do it again then no more mirrorless camera.

 

[one eye jack]

@one eye jack 4K resolution is only 8.2 megapixel. 8K resolution is about 33megapixel.
It is no wonder that Sony A7S3 is only 12 megapixel.

Arri, Red and Burano cost a bomb, but they are not designed for Mirrorless Cameras users looking for a hybrid camera that can shoot photos and record decent 4k, 5.7K or 8k videos. But I wouldn't call the GH series or Sony A7S or FX series for amateurs. I know so many photographers shooting videos with these cameras and make decent money as professionals.

Agree the real stuff cost a bomb but the point I'm trying to make is it's fine if the output is to a 65 inch TV. Yes most film makers start of with cheap cameras but eventually realise that cheap gear does not hack it but things are beginning to change for instance fulifilm gfx 100s ii. But for ordinary folks yeah have fun with new gear.

Panasonic Lumix GH7 Initial Review: Sensor Size is the Only Compromise

If you're willing to accept the smaller sensor, there are no other compromises.

petapixel.com

For photography he eventuality bought gfx 100s ii for image quality.

 

[Pitachu]

Panasonic did it. The GH7 is so good. Don't miss the last part on why M43 to see the benefits of M43.
The GH7 is certainly going to attract a lot of videographers like the GH4 and GH5.

I am not a videographer but I am excited because this will lead to a larger user group for M43 and Panasonic to release more lenses which I can use on my OM camera. eg. Panasonic Leica 10-25 F1.7 (20mm to 50mm) superb for indoor videos. Sigma only recently copied this idea released the Full frame 28-45 F1.8 zoom.

 

[ricohflex]

GH7 - not bad.

Very video centric. Now has Phase Detect AF. The body is BIG for a MFT.

The S9 with a Full Frame sensor, has very small camera body.
The GH7 from the same manufacturer, with a ridiculously small MFT sensor - has a very BIG camera body.
It is comical. You cannot make this up. It happens in real life.

• So they crippled S9 to make GH7 look good? Looks like an internal rift within Panasonic Camera Division.
• Will GH7 kill the OMDS OM1 Mk2? What do you think? Looks like a nail in OMDS coffin.
• Gordon Liang says Panasonic may use GH7 design as a reference to make a future Full Frame body.
• No matter what, GH7 appeals only to die hard fans already with Sunken Costs in the MFT format.
• GH7 will not appeal to NEW buyers. It is too late. Now in 2024 and later, NEW buyers have better options superior to MFT.
• NEW buyers got attractive Full Frame alternatives in Sony, Leica L mount, Nikon Z series and Canon R series.
• Leica SL2 & SL3 Full Frame buyers won't be swayed by GH7. Leica has their own special market pool of buyers.

Is this the last MFT from Panasonic Lumix?
OMDS seems destined for certain death as a MFT camera company.
Unless OMDS can break their stale, extremely outdated mindset and adopt Full Frame.

Even Fuji needs to rethink their devotion to APS-C Mirrorless ILC .
In view of overwhelming rivalry from Full Frame bodies by Sony, Leica/Lumix L mount, Canon and Nikon.

And what was all that big talk about Japanese companies leaving/abandoning China?
This GH7 is Made in China. See frame at time slot 8:48 in Gordon Liang's video.
I have viewed about 10 GH7 videos and read numerous detailed articles on GH7 complete with "specifications".
None of the written articles dare to write any text to reveal that the GH7 is Made in China. NONE. ZERO.
No one else dares to show this " Made in China" label.
No one specially speaks about it in their video. Not even Gordon Liang.
How sensitive this matter must be.
Lots of our good working products at home are made in China.
It illustrates the current state of the world rivalry between US#1 and China#2.
Oh... Oh... Maybe Biden will sanction/ban GH7 and forbid its sale in US. Or impose a 100% tax.

 

[Pitachu]

See remarks before?
GH7 - not bad.

Very video centric. Now has Phase Detect AF. The body is BIG for a MFT.

The S9 with a Full Frame sensor, has very small camera body.
The GH7 from the same manufacturer, with a ridiculously small MFT sensor - has a very BIG camera body.
It is comical. You cannot make this up. It happens in real life.

Comical? Why? If you are manufacturer, would you design a camera that match sensor size or human hand size?
Plus I believe it is more important to be able to have built in 32bit audio recording than to have a camera body that needs an extra accessory

• So they crippled S9 to make GH7 look good? Looks like an internal rift within Panasonic Camera Division.

Pause and think. S9 and GH7 are for different target users.

• Will GH7 kill the OMDS OM1 Mk2? What do you think? Looks like a nail in OMDS coffin.

Pause and think again. OM1 and GH7 are for very different users.

• Gordon Liang says Panasonic may use GH7 design as a reference to make a future Full Frame body.
• No matter what, GH7 appeals only to die hard fans already with Sunken Costs in the MFT format.
• GH7 will not appeal to NEW buyers. It is too late. Now in 2024 and later, NEW buyers have better options superior to MFT.
• NEW buyers got attractive Full Frame alternatives in Sony, Leica L mount, Nikon Z series and Canon R series.

GH7 only for diehard M43 fans????? Already got 1 Sony and 1 Fujifilm user tell me they are interested in the GH7.
Seriously, you CANNOT find a Full Frame camera with similar specs than the GH7.
32bit audio, open gate and raw recording are big features only found on very high end professional video cameras like Burano costing $90K etc.
And even Sony too date not able to include them in the FX or A7S due to limits of bandwidth for Full frame sensors.

• Leica SL2 & SL3 Full Frame buyers won't be swayed by GH7. Leica has their own special market pool of buyers.

Of course not. You seem to keep mixing different groups of users together.

Is this the last MFT from Panasonic Lumix?

After something so innovative you say it is the last MFT?

OMDS seems destined for certain death as a MFT camera company.
Unless OMDS can break their stale, extremely outdated mindset and adopt Full Frame.

As a OM user, I do not want OMDS to go into full frame. For what? I still want my 2x focal multiplier which Full Frame cannot provide.
I still want my 120 FPS which Sony charges $8900 for their 24mp A9iii and Sony dont even have a 150-400 with 1.25TC that can reach 1000mm without a TC and can reach 2000mm with a TC.

No one else dares to show this " Made in China" label.
No one specially speaks about it in their video. Not even Gordon Liang.
How sensitive this matter must be.
Lots of our good working products at home are made in China.
It illustrates the current state of the world rivalry between US#1 and China#2.
Oh... Oh... Maybe Biden will sanction/ban GH7 and forbid its sale in US. Or impose a 100% tax.

Everyone knows iphones are made in China and many people still buy them.
I have been buying iphones again and again every 2 years.

 

[Pitachu]

Not only I say, others also say
The GH7 could be a livesaver for M43

My take: The GH7 is a lifesaver for the MFT system! – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[one eye jack]

Why Panasonic announced GH7 now because it is a do or die product by a YouTuber. Because of this Panasonic went all out to do the Osaka event and even loaned this YouTuber a camera even after he griped about it. Now he said he will not say a camera format lives or die. Judging from what he reviewed there are some things he wished Panasonic would do.

This review is a bit techy but seriously would an ordinary user care like to use 32 bit float audio you need to buy the XLR unit so overall it is not a cheap system but still a lot cheaper than other alternatives or not available on other platforms. One YouTuber also said GH7 does not work in Da Vinci Resolve but he say can.
Again would an ordinary photographer care? I say wait for GH7 MK2. PS the 3rd. camera to be announced will be the S1 high end series so it make sense to introduce GH7 wow camera do or die. Flash back Panasonic parent announced it will sell those business' that do not perform by 2026.

 

[ricohflex]

To die hard fans who already spent a fortune on MFT system, the GH7 is interesting.
As reviewers have said. The positioning of GH7 is neither here nor there.
It is not good enough to compete with a real pro cine video digital cam.
But it's features are too complicated for an ordinary newbie to appreciate.
There is additional spending on costly accessories to access those features.
In other words, GH7 will not sell in very high numbers. Except to die hard fans with sunken costs.
MFT is after all a dying/dead sensor format for mirrorless ILC.
In 2024 and beyond, NEW camera buyers looking to set up a system that is future proof - will not choose GH7 or any MFT camera.
In 2024, the MFT era is over.
The analogy is why would a desktop PC buyer in 2024 be interested in a computer that uses 5¼ inch floppy disks?

 

[one eye jack]

Kodak rises like a phoenix, even Korean kenko. Who say cheap camera no buyers. Time for OMDS to bark up this tree.

Here are the the top 10 best selling cameras:

1. Kodak PixPro FZ55 (11% share)
2. Sony ZV-E10 (8.2% share)
3. Kodak PixPro FZ45 (6% share)
4. Instax MIni EVO (5.5% share)
5. Kodak PixPro WPZ2 (5.1% share)
6. Canon IXY 650 (4.9% share)
7. Canon EOS R50 (4.0% share)
8. Kenko KC-03TY (2.7% share)
9. Canon EOS R10 (2.4% share)
10. Nikon Z30 (2.3% share)

Between Kodak, Kenko and the IXY we have 5 super cheap compact cameras on top! We don’t have such accurate data in the US and Europe.

43 Rumors – Panasonic and Olympus Digital Camera News

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

To die hard fans who already spent a fortune on MFT system, the GH7 is interesting.

>>>My Son's Sony A7CR + 24-70 cost much more than my M43 system with 7 lenses.

As reviewers have said. The positioning of GH7 is neither here nor there.
It is not good enough to compete with a real pro cine video digital cam.

Which Real Pro Cine Video Digital Cam are you referring to?
The Sony Venice 2 or Sony Burano? They cost $90K!!!!!!!!!
You need to compare Apple to Apple.
And just because you are ignorant, Panasonic is not.
They have been successful with the GH4 & 5 and know exactly who is their target market,
B-roll users, Agency Interviewers etc but definitely not Real Pro Cine!!!!!

But it's features are too complicated for an ordinary newbie to appreciate.
There is additional spending on costly accessories to access those features.

Too complicated???? Have you tried using any DSLR for paid video works?
You can learn it in a few days. eg. 32 bit float recording, Apple ProRes color grading etc
If all these are too complicated, just use your mobile phone to shoot.
Even my Son's Sony A7CR needs time to learn in order to shoot good videos with it.

In other words, GH7 will not sell in very high numbers. Except to die hard fans with sunken costs.

Not a lot, probably about 1000 per month.
within the limited of photographers I know, already 2 are interested in ordering the GH7, one is a M43 user, the other one is tired of Canon overheating issues.
Not sure why you have the mindset of sunken costs. I have been upgrading my M43 gears and have been getting 70-80% of my purchase price easily.

MFT is after all a dying/dead sensor format for mirrorless ILC.
In 2024 and beyond, NEW camera buyers looking to set up a system that is future proof - will not choose GH7 or any MFT camera.
In 2024, the MFT era is over.
The analogy is why would a desktop PC buyer in 2024 be interested in a computer that uses 5¼ inch floppy disks?

In case you did not notice, Full Frame is not sexy anymore. The trend is towards compact cameras again

 

[ricohflex]

Comparison video coming soon. But quite meaningless. What for?
Compare a MFT older item against a MFT newer item.
NEW camera buyers looking to set up a future proof system are NOT interested in MFT.

GH7 will not move the needle for MFT measuring world wide market share.
In 2024, there are too many much better Full Frame alternatives from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Leica - and even Lumix itself.

Robin Wong needs to break away from MFT in order to make himself relevant to future YouTube audiences.

 

[Pitachu]

Comparison video coming soon. But quite meaningless. What for?

Both are top of the line M43 cameras. It is for M43 users who are interested to upgrade, not for people who are not aware or cynical of the benefits of M43.

Compare a MFT older item against a MFT newer item.
NEW camera buyers looking to set up a future proof system are NOT interested in MFT.

Future proof? For how long? My friend who bought a Canon R5 just 2 years ago told me it can film 8k video and it is future proof. He is now lamenting.
Nothing is future proof now. Including my iphone 15 and my ASUS laptop I bought last year. Less than 12 months later, ASUS send me a email saying that now their laptop has an AI chip inside. So for anything just use it for 3 to 4 years and be happy with it.

GH7 will not move the needle for MFT measuring world wide market share.
In 2024, there are too many much better Full Frame alternatives from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Leica - and even Lumix itself.

Why are Full Frame alternatives better? Is there a Full Frame camera that can do 120fps, pre capture recording, multiple exposure and live composite?
I put these features above high resolution and dynamic range. If you say these are useless, I can also say higher resolution and dynamic range is also useless to me as I only post on Social Media and do A3 size photobooks. So it is about getting a camera that meet our needs, not which one is better. Hope it sink into your head this time.

Robin Wong needs to break away from MFT in order to make himself relevant to future YouTube audiences.

I used to follow Robin Wong closely on his every new video on M43. When Robin break away from MFT, I focus on other M43 experts video more closely. Sometimes it is better to specialize.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex, do you really think that OM Systems, Panasonic, and even Leica investors and shareholders are totally dumb and look at market share? Each of their market share are less than 2%, so their goal is never gaining market share. They are basically focused on producing niche products as long as it remains profitable to do so.

And Panasonic and Leica have been around for more than 10 years and OMDS is continuing Olympus.
Panasonic plan to produce only 1000 units of GH7 shows that the mgt is totally happy if they can achieve this target (approx. U$24 million annual sales revenue) and probably OM Systems and Leica too. Canon, Nikon and Sony are probably selling 20,000 to 25,000 camera units per month, but to do that, any company would need to produce several models for different levels of users and this require very huge investment which is too risky in a declining market.

Not every brand or product need market share to be successful. Medium Format cameras from Fujifilm and Hasselblad also have very small market share compared to Full Frame but has continue to thrive too.

GH7 will not move the needle for MFT measuring world wide market share.
In 2024, there are too many much better Full Frame alternatives from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Leica - and even Lumix itself.

 

[one eye jack]

BCN rankings for may 2024 top 50. No fullframe camera in top 10. Nearest is 12 canon RP which is an old model. There are 5 m43 cameras in top 50, at 11, 15, 25, 41 and 44 ( recent ) which are old models too. As I said before, cheap cameras sell better.

Thread views have crossed 101k.

A couple of things you learn from that ranking:

Obviously cheaper cameras sell in larger quantities
E-PL7, E-P7 and OM10IV make it into the top 30
G100 selling strong for Lumix

​

BCNranking published the top 50 of the best selling cameras on the Japanese market for the month of May:

1. White Canon R50 double lens kit
2. Canon R10 with 18-150mm lens
3. Sony ZV-E10 with powerzoom kit lens
4. Black Canon R50 double lens kit
5. Sony ZV-E10 double lens kit
6. Nikon Z50 double lens kit
7. White Sony ZV-E10
8. Sony A6400 double lens kit
9. Canon Kiss X10 double lens kit
10. Nikon Z30 double lens kit
11. Panasonic G100
12. Canon RP with 24-105mm lens
13. Silver Sony A6400 double lens kit
14. Nikon Z30 with 16-50mm lens
15. Olympus E-PL7 double lens kit
16. White Canon R50 with 18-45mm lens
17. Nikon Zf
18. White Sony ZV-E10 double lens kit
19. Black Sony A7cII
20. Silver Sony A7cII
21. Sony A7IV with kit lens
22. Silver Sony A7cII with kit lens
23. Black Sony A7cII with kit lens
24. Black Canon R50 with 18-45mm lens
25. Panasonic G100 with kit lens
26. Canon R6II
27. Fujifilm X-H2 with 16-80mm
28. Sony A6700 with kit lens
29. Nikon ZFc with kit lens
30. Sony ZV-E10body only
31. Canon Kiss X10i
32. Nikon ZFc with 16-50mm kit lens
33. Canon EOS M2 double lens kit
34. Nikon D7500 with kit lens
35. Nikon Zf with 40mm lens
36. Nikon Z50 with 16-50mm lens
37. Sony ZV-E10 with powerzoom kit lens
38. Fujifilm X-T5
39. Canon Kiss X10i with double lens kit
40. Canon R10 with double lens kit
41. Olympus OM-10 IV with double lens kit
42. Canon R7 with 18-150mm lens
43. Sony A7IV body only
44. Olympus E-P7 with kit lens
45. Sony A6700 body only
46. Canon R8 with kit lens
47. Nikon Zfc with 28mm lens
48. Nikon D7500
49. Canon R10
50. Nikon Z8

43 Rumors – Panasonic and Olympus Digital Camera News

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

There is one group of people that just go for a simple camera that can adjust shutter speed and aperture and try to take the best photos in the same scenario to prove that skill matters most. Already met some "old uncles" in some photowalks. One guy told me he left his Sony A7Riv at home and just want to see what he can get with his very old Olympus Pen. And his photos are good!

BCN rankings for may 2024 top 50. No fullframe camera in top 10. Nearest is 12 canon RP which is an old model. There are 5 m43 cameras in top 50, at 11, 15, 25, 41 and 44 ( recent ) which are old models too. As I said before, cheap cameras sell better.

Thread views have crossed 101k.

​

BCNranking published the top 50 of the best selling cameras on the Japanese market for the month of May:

1. White Canon R50 double lens kit
2. Canon R10 with 18-150mm lens
3. Sony ZV-E10 with powerzoom kit lens
4. Black Canon R50 double lens kit
5. Sony ZV-E10 double lens kit
6. Nikon Z50 double lens kit
7. White Sony ZV-E10
8. Sony A6400 double lens kit
9. Canon Kiss X10 double lens kit
10. Nikon Z30 double lens kit
11. Panasonic G100
12. Canon RP with 24-105mm lens
13. Silver Sony A6400 double lens kit
14. Nikon Z30 with 16-50mm lens
15. Olympus E-PL7 double lens kit
16. White Canon R50 with 18-45mm lens
17. Nikon Zf
18. White Sony ZV-E10 double lens kit
19. Black Sony A7cII
20. Silver Sony A7cII
21. Sony A7IV with kit lens
22. Silver Sony A7cII with kit lens
23. Black Sony A7cII with kit lens
24. Black Canon R50 with 18-45mm lens
25. Panasonic G100 with kit lens
26. Canon R6II
27. Fujifilm X-H2 with 16-80mm
28. Sony A6700 with kit lens
29. Nikon ZFc with kit lens
30. Sony ZV-E10body only
31. Canon Kiss X10i
32. Nikon ZFc with 16-50mm kit lens
33. Canon EOS M2 double lens kit
34. Nikon D7500 with kit lens
35. Nikon Zf with 40mm lens
36. Nikon Z50 with 16-50mm lens
37. Sony ZV-E10 with powerzoom kit lens
38. Fujifilm X-T5
39. Canon Kiss X10i with double lens kit
40. Canon R10 with double lens kit
41. Olympus OM-10 IV with double lens kit
42. Canon R7 with 18-150mm lens
43. Sony A7IV body only
44. Olympus E-P7 with kit lens
45. Sony A6700 body only
46. Canon R8 with kit lens
47. Nikon Zfc with 28mm lens
48. Nikon D7500
49. Canon R10
50. Nikon Z8

43 Rumors – Panasonic and Olympus Digital Camera News

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

This is why we don't need high end Full Frame cameras.
And this is why the best selling cameras are the lower end cameras.
@ricohflex, it is not true that everyone will go for the latest Full Frame and no one will consider M43 cameras.

 

[one eye jack]

There is one group of people that just go for a simple camera that can adjust shutter speed and aperture and try to take the best photos in the same scenario to prove that skill matters most. Already met some "old uncles" in some photowalks. One guy told me he left his Sony A7Riv at home and just want to see what he can get with his very old Olympus Pen. And his photos are good!

Sshhhh... wait prices of used cameras go up!!! It's not so simple , skill alone ( generally yes ) not enough for certain genres of photography. Gear also matters. Like wildlife, sports/action, macro, portrait, etc. Photographers have lots of cameras to choose from. M43 are already very capable.

 

[Pitachu]

Yep, most buyers of the lower end cameras probably used it for Travel, Street or Social Gatherings.
All the wildlife, macro and sports cameras are not in the Top 50, as they are usually huge and costly.

Sshhhh... wait prices of used cameras go up!!! It's not so simple , skill alone ( generally yes ) not enough for certain genres of photography. Gear also matters. Like wildlife, sports/action, macro, portrait, etc. Photographers have lots of cameras to choose from. M43 are already very capable.

 

[Pitachu]

The OM System 90mm 2x Macro Lenses is actually a technological marvel and the Macro Photographers can't wait to test it out. Critics try to find fault and say it is actually not 2x to 4x blah blah blah ......... but end of the day, it is still a technological achievement recognized.

OM SYSTEM’s 90mm telephoto macro lens receives the Photographic Society of Japan’s “Technology Award” – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com