WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Err..... I don't think Robin Wong has been appointed as a Nikon Ambassador.
He has only been invited for the launch by the distributor for Malaysia and I don't think he is prepared to abandon his usage of Olympus equipment yet. Most of his fans including myself are only watching his videos on Olympus equipment. I don't use Nikon, but if I were to try Nikon one day, I think there are more authoritative reviewers on Nikon than Robin. Plus Robin is NOT a wildlife photographer and if you notice Nikon developments lately, it is also trying to follow OMDS path (features like bird AI, faster FPS etc).

"The new Nikon Z mount is THE MOST IMPORTANT design element?????"
Errr.... the Nikon Z mount was introduced 8 years ago, why do you think Robin should mention it for the Z6 Mk3?
It is totally irrelevant. You are only trying to mention it to link it to MFT so you can slam it down?

And how does the MFT mount get obsolete when lenses are being released year after year, in fact more than Canon R mount or Nikon Z mount lenses?

 

[Pitachu]

Speaking of Mounts, when purchasing any camera system, the first thing I look at are the lenses available.
Nikon has 39 Z mount lenses.
Canon has 39 RF mount lenses.
Sony has 47 FE mount lenses.
M43 has 84 lenses!!!!

I bought the Sony A7CR to use some of the nice bokeh lenses Sony have but at the same time, I felt very restricted when I tried to do Food & Macro Photography in a Sony Workshop. Sony has only 1 90mm Macro lenses. M43 has 30mm, 45mm, 60mm and 90mm Macro lenses. Plus Sony FE does not have any FishEye lenses which I want to use at one time. Looking at Nikon Z and Canon RF with even fewer lenses, I think the situation is about the same.

For M43 lenses, we are really spoiled for choice

 

[ricohflex]

Sony has an abundance of 3rd party lenses made for Sony E mount.
Nikon has plenty of 3rd party lenses too. Though less than Sony. Due to Nikon's late entrance in 2018 in mirrorless digital Full Frame ILC.
Canon is a bit protectionist, only lately allow 3rd party to make some for R mount.

Both Nikon and Canon have a GIANT user base of their previous Nikkors and Canon EOS EF lenses.
When used with native Nikon made and Canon made adapters, they open up an enormous array of lenses.
While still retaining AF performance. Users do not have to spend money buying lenses. This is a BIG advantage.

If one uses 3rd party adapters, Canon, Nikon an Sony can use legacy lenses of other brands.
Canon, Nikon and Sony can use a wide array of legacy lenses of other brands easily on the market.
Contax lenses, Rollei lenses, Pentax lenses, Minolta lenses, etc are available.

Do note that many millions of legacy lenses from film era exist.
Nikon made at least 120 million.
Canon made 150 million.


Credit: lightandmatter.org

Credit: goodspursm.best

Credit: nikonrumours.com

With adapters, legacy lenses can be used on Full Frame camera bodies - without any change in the focal length of the lens.
For Full frame when you mount a wide angle (say 20mm) legacy lens, it remains a 20mm.
But this is not the case for MFT. It turns the 20mm wide angle into a 40mm lens.

This is the Achilles Heel of MFT.
This is a deal breaker negative of MFT.
That is why people who like wide angle photography dislike MFT.

What about using Leica M and R lenses on Full Frame digital mirrorless ILC?
I have seen so many friends use Leica lenses on Sony camera bodies with Tech-Art adapters.

These are the Sony lenses available.
Credit: photorumors.com

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex, m43 users are aware of the 2x crop factor that's why Olympus and Panasonic have
7 - 14mm wide angle zooms and those primes that 3rd. party lens makers provide.

Go Wide! A look at four top ultra-wide primes for Micro Four Thirds

Tall buildings, expansive views, and tight spaces all call for an ultra-wide lens. Here we round-up four Micro Four Thirds-mount fixed-focal-length examples from Laowa, Panasonic, Meike and Samyang.

www.dpreview.com

 

[JW73]

Do note that adapting older dslr lens to the latest Mirrorless will have disadvantages like not able to use the latest technology found in the bodies. That’s the reason why people are buying the native lenses and the manufacturers need to sell new lenses.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha Ha! Almost every single photographer I know who uses Nikkor and Canon EF lenses, after they upgraded to Mirrorless, have sold alway all their old Nikkor and EF lenses except 1 or 2 for vintage effects. @JW73 have already said the reasons.

@ricohflex don't say things you don't do. Go and get a Canon R series mirrorless, buy an adapter and get a range of larger and heavier EF lenses to use with your latest Canon Mirrorless. You have been "physho" by Canon and Nikon marketing ads if you really do that. And become our lauging stock.

MFT 20mm becomes achilles heel????? The 2x crop factor is precisely why I use MFT. I love it
The Panasonic Leica 100-400mm weighing 985g reaches 800mm without a teleconverter
My Olympus 8-25mm F4 proves me 16mm to 50mm F4 (35mm equivalent).
The Panasonic Leica 10-25mm F1.7 provides 20-50mm F1.7 (35mm equivalent). Indoor videographers love this!!!!!
This is what I need and no FF system are able to provide.

I am not saying FF is no good. I have a Sony FF system too!!!!!

My point is M43 offer such a wide range of focal length options available that you are blinding yourself with prejudice if you totally write them off.

Sony has an abundance of 3rd party lenses made for Sony E mount.
Nikon has plenty of 3rd party lenses too. Though less than Sony. Due to Nikon's late entrance in 2018 in mirrorless digital Full Frame ILC.
Canon is a bit protectionist, only lately allow 3rd party to make some for R mount.

Both Nikon and Canon have a GIANT user base of their previous Nikkors and Canon EOS EF lenses.
When used with native Nikon made and Canon made adapters, they open up an enormous array of lenses.
While still retaining AF performance. Users do not have to spend money buying lenses. This is a BIG advantage.

If one uses 3rd party adapters, Canon, Nikon an Sony can use legacy lenses of other brands.
Canon, Nikon and Sony can use a wide array of legacy lenses of other brands easily on the market.
Contax lenses, Rollei lenses, Pentax lenses, Minolta lenses, etc are available.

Do note that many millions of legacy lenses from film era exist.
Nikon made at least 120 million.
Canon made 150 million.


Credit: lightandmatter.org

Credit: goodspursm.best

Credit: nikonrumours.com

With adapters, legacy lenses can be used on Full Frame camera bodies - without any change in the focal length of the lens.
For Full frame when you mount a wide angle (say 20mm) legacy lens, it remains a 20mm.
But this is not the case for MFT. It turns the 20mm wide angle into a 40mm lens.

This is the Achilles Heel of MFT.
This is a deal breaker negative of MFT.
That is why people who like wide angle photography dislike MFT.

What about using Leica M and R lenses on Full Frame digital mirrorless ILC?
I have seen so many friends use Leica lenses on Sony camera bodies with Tech-Art adapters.

There is NO Way a MFT lens can match the image quality of a top notch Leica lens.
Don't bluff yourself.
Those who have been in this photography hobby long enough know.

 

[Pitachu]

I was just saying the range of M43 mirrorless lenses compared to Nikon, Canon and Sony.
I did not "bluff" myself M43 lenses can match top notch Leica Lenses.
In fact, even Canon, Nikkor and Sony lenses are not able to match.

I have met a guy using the Leica SL2 in one of the workshops I attended and casually asked him what other lenses he uses on the SL2.
Guess his reply???
"Are you kidding me? One Leica APO lenses can buy another other brand camera system already!!". LOL.

There is NO Way a MFT lens can match the image quality of a top notch Leica lens.
Don't bluff yourself.
Those who have been in this photography hobby long enough know.

 

[Pitachu]

Just a brief summary of why m43 for me:
1) 8-25mm (16-50 F4) for my landscape and street photo
2) 60mm macro (120mm F2.8) 185g for macro opportunities.
3) 100-400mm (F5.6-6.3) (200-800 F6.3) for birding and wildlife
4) 12-100 F4 (24-200 F4) when I want to carry a all-in-1 lenses

As I always say, lenses choice is my first priority when choosing any camera system.
M43 meet my needs perfectly as I can hardly find any other camera system that has the above focal range.

For example, I can always carry my tiny 185g 120mm F2.8 Macro without feeling anything. If I were to get the 90mm Macro for my Sony, I would not being it out on my travel trips because of the weight and bulk.

Not saying the above is suitable for everyone. If you are a standard 1 or 2 lenses photographer and shoot everything with a 24-70 and 70-200 and don't mind the extra bulk and weight, you can of course choose larger sensor formats.

 

[JW73]

Recent sigma launched the 500mmf5.6 lens for L mount and Sony mount. Guess what. The sony mount is crippled as the 1:4x tele converter cannot be add to the lens. However the L mount version is able to.

Buy what you need and do own research. No free lunch.

 

[Pitachu]

Because Sigma is a member of the L Mount Alliance and Sigma do manufacture cameras using the L Mount.

Recent sigma launched the 500mmf5.6 lens for L mount and Sony mount. Guess what. The sony mount is crippled as the 1:4x tele converter cannot be add to the lens. However the L mount version is able to.

Buy what you need and do own research. No free lunch.

 

[Pitachu]

The trend which I mentioned earlier, Canon has just announced another 24mp camera, and this time for its flagship model, the R1 costing US$6300! (body only)

I am sure this is based on market research that 24mp is the preferred resolution and not based on cost savings.

Did anyone notice that these camera manufacturers suddenly do not highlight their resolution of how many megapixels on their ad anymore?

I remember the earlier days of FF users gloating on how high the megapixel their sensors are and M43 still remain at 24mp, and all these users do not buy the idea that M43 user especially OM-1 users are prioritizing other features like 120fps and pro-capture over higher megapixel.

All all of a sudden FF manufacturers try to provide higher FPS and pro-capture, which Olympus ca,eras have several years ago.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1828640-REG/canon_6577c002_eos_r1_mirrorless_camera.html

I just noticed a trend.

The latest Canon cameras R100, R8, R50, R6 ii are all 24 megapixel.
The latest Nikon cameras Z6iii, Zf, Z30 are 21mp to 25mp except the Z8.
The latest Sony cameras A9iii, 6700, ZV1 are 20-24mp except the &Cii and 7CR which are actually compact versions of existing A7iv and A7R5.

These 3 are the largest camera manufacturers with more than 90% market share.
Why is there a downward shift towards 20-25megapixel after they have came up with 33mp, 45mp and 61mp cameras?
It is definitely because of market demand. And 20-25megapixel has all long been the resolution M43 have been focusing on.

And do you really need a huge Full Frame sensor for less noise.
Go and get hold of the Sony A7Siii or ZVe1 where the base ISO is 12,800 with almost zero noise,
Then take several shots with your camera and see how many shots you really need the Full Frame sensor where noise reduction software is not able to help.

So it then boils down to whether you want better bokeh by having larger Full Frame lenses or further focal length and smaller lenses on M43.

Now that the most popular cameras are around 20+ megapixel, M43 is going to be an interesting alternative again. Just my thoughts.

 

[ricohflex]

Yes.
At first I thought Nikon V1 (2011) had beat Olympus EM5 (2012) to the pre-capture feature.
But on further checking.
This Olympus E-100 RS camera in the year 2000 cost USD$1,500 and was only 1.5 MP with a 1/2 inch sensor and 2 card slots.
It had a "Pre-Capture" mode.

Credit: dpreview.com

 

[ricohflex]

Canon, Sony and Nikon Mirrorless Full Frame cameras, with their own or 3rd party adapters such as Megadap or Tech-Art.
Have opened up a whole new vista of being able to use legacy lenses. Especially the wide angle lenses.
Given that there are a few hundred million of the legacy lenses from the film era and the early digital era.

This is good. Environmentally friendly. It takes a big carbon footprint to make a lens.
Just the smelting of the glass to make lens elements alone.
So to be able to reuse them is of great benefit. It prevents wastage.

To users, it means huge savings.
They do not have to buy lenses for the new mount all over again.
To some who are rich, it is not just about money. They have some personal favourite lenses from the past.

Like the Contax Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 21mm F2.8.
Like Leica Apo-Summicron-M 35mm F/2.0 Asph. Black Anodized.
They are happy to be able to use these again. Without any crop factor. i.e. a 21mm remains a 21mm.

One of my friends uses a Sony 50mm F1.2 lens on a Nikon ZF Full Frame camera, using a Megadap adapter.

 

[Pitachu]

I have printed photos for lots of professionals during my worklife and have shot with lots of enthusiasts in various photo outings. It is only on rare occasions that I saw any photographer swap to a legacy lens and when they do, it is only for a short period for a particular scene. I am curious person and usually talk to anyone who uses equipment which are not the norm. Almost all the replies I got is they love the character, never saying cheaper, same sharpness etc.

OI have 1 vintage lenses (Minolta) for my Sony too. Yes, the images do have character but I do not want them on all my photos and it is quite obvious that they are not resolving enough for fine details, despite being a prime lenses. I think it definitely cannot even match my 24-70 zoom.

I also found the following From Sean Reed in Quora which confirm my observations.

1. Digital sensors have high resolution, so the native lenses are built to harvest this. While there are legacy lenses with high resolution, there's less consistency. Using lenses with lower resolving capacity means you can't get the full resolution of the picture. Not that you can't live without it though.

2. Digital sensor are sensitive (in bad way) to light falling on steep angle. Film emulsion don't have this problem. The result is light falloff and colour shift around the edge. The problem mostly exist in wide angle lenses for rangefinder camera because the rear element of the lens sits close to the film/sensor surface.

3. Cheap adapters have larger production tolerance. Doesn't matter if you use live view as long as the lens can focus to infinity. But the wobble might be uncomfortable.

4. Modern lens have advantage of newer design and newer coating. Not absolute, but they should be able to win against cheap legacy glasses other than in the subjective "character" criteria.

5. Native lens can have built-in lens profile for their camera. This allow further correction of the lens' problem such as distortion. Of course, there will be hardcore enthusiasts who would tell you anything but optical correction through lens physical design is heretic. Digital correction is a creation of the devil to make human forget what's true beauty and excellence that can only be achieved through the most difficult way.

Yes, you can "play" with legacy lenses with your modern mirrorless camera for their character, but I don't think anyone want their whole range of lenses to be legacy lenses after they upgrade to a modern mirrorless camera with a high resolution discerning sensor.

 

[Pitachu]

I don't think there is any adapter for Contax / Leica M lenses to fit modern mirrorless from Nikon, Sony & Canon.
You can just use the Leica M lenses on their M series cameras.
The Sony 50mm F1.2 is not exactly a legacy lenses. LOL It is only 2 to 3 years old and can fit my Sony without any adapter.
No offence, but the Nikon Zf may not be resolving enough for the Sony 50mm F1.2 GM!
Ask your friend to bring the Sony 50mm F1.2 to a Sony centre and test out the lenses on a A7Rv or A7CR.
Zoom in to maximum after taking some test shots. You will be amazed!

Sadly, I think it is very difficult to find Olympus Zuiko Legacy Film lenses to try on my 43 cameras.

Like the Contax Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 21mm F2.8.
Like Leica Apo-Summicron-M 35mm F/2.0 Asph. Black Anodized.
They are happy to be able to use these again. Without any crop factor. i.e. a 21mm remains a 21mm.

One of my friends uses a Sony 50mm F1.2 lens on a Nikon ZF Full Frame camera, using a Megadap adapter.

 

[ricohflex]

For your information for Contax lenses. To fit Canon R, Nikon Z and Sony E.
As for adapters to fit Leica M lenses to Canon R, Nikon Z and Sony E. Casual Google search will reveal.

Credit: novoflex.de

Credit: kipon-global.com

Credit: bhphotovideo.com

 

[one eye jack]

Sadly, I think it is very difficult to find Olympus Zuiko Legacy Film lenses to try on my 43 cameras.

Fyi as long as the flange distance of legacy fullframe lenses are longer than mirrorless camera there will be dumb adapters that is no electronic contacts and hence autofocus confirmation or exit data. Heck there are even medium format lenses like 645, 6x6. If want autofocus adapters be prepared to pay much more but I think Chinese adapters do work but not to the extent of like native lenses of the mirrorless brands.

Leica m to m43.

https://www.lazada.sg/products/lm-m43-adapter-for-leica-m-lm-to-micro-43-m43-m43-mount-olympus-camera-gf8-gf7-ep5-e-pl7-e-m5-i3014322033.html

4/3 dslr to m43 electronic adapter.

https://www.lazada.sg/products/43-m43-af-auto-focus-lens-adapter-for-four-thirds-m43-lens-to-olympus-panasonic-micro-43-mmf3-m43-43-i2871928453.html

Olympus zuiko film om mount to m43.

https://www.lazada.sg/products/om-m43-lens-adapter-ring-for-om-lens-to-olympus-em10-penf-em5ii-epl-i3084786182.html

 

[JW73]

This ain’t a joke: OM Digital starts selling “OM SYSTEM Curry” – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

Here's the future..lol

 

[ricohflex]

I do not eat beef. This is not for me. MFT Camera products are not selling well (it is obsolete).
OMDS Management have to explore other possibilities to survive. I think this is good. Instead of sit down and wait to die.
OMDS actively seek other avenues. I told you, that selling cameras is NOT JIP's main mission. Sidestepping Japan labour laws is.

If JIP / OMDS can demonstrate such flexibility and independence of thought process (unlike the stubborn management at Olympus Camera Division).
Then surely they can consider dropping the obsolete MFT format and create cameras for Full Frame.
OMDS must break the mental chains that imprisoned the fools who used to lead Olympus Camera Division.

I like Olympus. ( Maitani era of film OM-1).
So fed up that the wonderful company that Maitani built was destroyed by these egoistic fools.
The Olympus ship sank under their watch.

They forgot that Olympus is a CAMERA company. That makes cameras (any size of sensor) that the public wants to buy.
Instead the fools got fixated on ONLY the Micro Four Thirds sensor.
And they REFUSED to acknowledge the improvement and advancement of technology. Thousands of employees suffered because of them.

 

[Pitachu]

By insisting all non-FF manufacturers & users to switch to full frame is like forcing everyone to eat BEEF.

Don't be naive to think that Olympus did not do any market survey regularly .

Olympus spotted the Nature & Wildlife photo niche to started shifting towards it enough though it has established a foothold in the Compact & Lightweight ILC segment. It is only recently that Sony, Nikon and Canon start incorporating some of the features like 120FPS, Pro-Capture into its recent cameras to target the Nature & Wildlife segment.

Olympus opted to stay at around with M43 sensors offering a max of 24mp while the rest of the FF manufacturers were leading their customers to upgrade to higher and higher megapixels until users found out that they actually do not them so much mp. Why do you think so many of the latest cameras from Sony, Nikon and Canon all stepping back to 24mp?

Olympus Imaging Division revenue was US$402 million in 2019 company to Olympus revenue of US$7149million (so it is only about 5% of Olympus revenue). Olympus could have kept the imaging division if it want to as all the R&D for Olympus (eg. medical equipment etc) was done by the Imaging Division and I guess they have problem appropriating the R&D cost if the imaging division remains within the company. Plus, Olympus has probably engaged consultants to realize that based on the changed market situation of declined demand, it is no longer wise to keep a factory running if there is not enough demand to soak up the continuous production. It will be better off to outsource production as and when needed. Even HP and Epson outsourced their production of inkjet printers and produce them only on a on-demand basis.

These are all careful business decisions Olympus have made.

Olympus is after all a public listed company in Japan. If the management are fools and do not make the best business decisions, they will be quickly replaced by the investors.

I do not eat beef. This is not for me. MFT Camera products are not selling well (it is obsolete).
OMDS Management have to explore other possibilities to survive. I think this is good. Instead of sit down and wait to die.
OMDS actively seek other avenues. I told you, that selling cameras is NOT JIP's main mission. Sidestepping Japan labour laws is.

If JIP / OMDS can demonstrate such flexibility and independence of thought process (unlike the stubborn management at Olympus Camera Division).
Then surely they can consider dropping the obsolete MFT format and create cameras for Full Frame.
OMDS must break the mental chains that imprisoned the fools who used to lead Olympus Camera Division.

I like Olympus. ( Maitani era of film OM-1).
So fed up that the wonderful company that Maitani built was destroyed by these egoistic fools.
The Olympus ship sank under their watch.

They forgot that Olympus is a CAMERA company. That makes cameras (any size of sensor) that the public wants to buy.
Instead the fools got fixated on ONLY the Micro Four Thirds sensor.
And they REFUSED to acknowledge the improvement and advancement of technology. Thousands of employees suffered because of them.