Thats right... It's also ridiculous for you to refund him and have to spend the equal amount again to have it fixed??
what would you do?
- Thread starter Kho King
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if i am not wrong, after a reasonable lapse of time, seller is not liable for such damages especially when buyer was given a reasonable length of time to assess the camera (10 days later). If buyer argues on his trip, then the question posed to him would be why not buy it after he comes back cos' he would have been very clear about the 10-day period. in any case, a written form of agreement about the 10 day would be useful
Since the buyer is also a member of clubsnap, would he/she be so kind as to share the other side of the story? Not that we (other members) can do much about it, but if you feel that you have been painted an unjust picture, why dont you share your views on this?
Do keep the views constructive and factual and not accusive tho.. Cheers..
My condolenses to the camera, and its owner.. both of them.. :bheart:
Do keep the views constructive and factual and not accusive tho.. Cheers..
My condolenses to the camera, and its owner.. both of them.. :bheart:
1. Sell a DSLR to a CSer
2. Give 10 days money back guarantee period
3. Buyer tested on the spot and after a few days receive message from him saying that DSLR is working fine, but he said he will go travelling and will be busy not using the DSLR for a while till a month later
4. After 10 days, everything fine. Money back guarantee period ends.
5. after a month, buyer said DSLR fault. Sent to manufacturer for checking, CCD spoilt. Going to cost a bomb to fix it (same price as what I have sold)
6. Buyer wants refund/return the DSLR
I received a message from KK last night to refer to this posting and reply if need to and I thought it needs some clarification in all fairness.
What he has written in his 6 points are true but especially point 3 is a little understated.
I told him I'll be leaving for a month but need to secure a camera for my niece's wedding on 26 November. Due to the rush, I tested fired 3 shots at the dealing place and another 3 shots at home a couple of days later. I however did tell him that I could only thoroughly test it on the wedding day, as the camera has already had it CCD replaced. Such condition has to be stress tested properly which I didnt have the time then. I left for China with my FZ20, and not the S2 as some may have suspected.
On the day before the wedding as preparation, I loaded batteries and tested the S2 and lo ... blank screen with the top CCD showing ERR at times. In fact it became eratic. I therefore quickly PM KK; quickly contacted my friend to borrow a cam late at night.
I have reminded him of what I told him when I purchased the item from him and thought this implicite understanding was more akin to a gentleman agreement. If he has disagreed he should have objected there and then.
But given the situation I have even offered him subsequently to share the repair cost which he refused.
What do I do??
I have purchased and sold many items here too but often for a group of retirees (and even a 70+ priest) who has switched to digital and only now has the time to enjoy the photography. This set was purchased on behalf of my friend but given this, its unethical for me to pass the buck to him as they depended on me for all these activities.
KK is a fine young man and not dishonest but the contention is the point I mentioned.
You judge..
Cheers
2. Give 10 days money back guarantee period
3. Buyer tested on the spot and after a few days receive message from him saying that DSLR is working fine, but he said he will go travelling and will be busy not using the DSLR for a while till a month later
4. After 10 days, everything fine. Money back guarantee period ends.
5. after a month, buyer said DSLR fault. Sent to manufacturer for checking, CCD spoilt. Going to cost a bomb to fix it (same price as what I have sold)
6. Buyer wants refund/return the DSLR
I received a message from KK last night to refer to this posting and reply if need to and I thought it needs some clarification in all fairness.
What he has written in his 6 points are true but especially point 3 is a little understated.
I told him I'll be leaving for a month but need to secure a camera for my niece's wedding on 26 November. Due to the rush, I tested fired 3 shots at the dealing place and another 3 shots at home a couple of days later. I however did tell him that I could only thoroughly test it on the wedding day, as the camera has already had it CCD replaced. Such condition has to be stress tested properly which I didnt have the time then. I left for China with my FZ20, and not the S2 as some may have suspected.
On the day before the wedding as preparation, I loaded batteries and tested the S2 and lo ... blank screen with the top CCD showing ERR at times. In fact it became eratic. I therefore quickly PM KK; quickly contacted my friend to borrow a cam late at night.
I have reminded him of what I told him when I purchased the item from him and thought this implicite understanding was more akin to a gentleman agreement. If he has disagreed he should have objected there and then.
But given the situation I have even offered him subsequently to share the repair cost which he refused.
What do I do??
I have purchased and sold many items here too but often for a group of retirees (and even a 70+ priest) who has switched to digital and only now has the time to enjoy the photography. This set was purchased on behalf of my friend but given this, its unethical for me to pass the buck to him as they depended on me for all these activities.
KK is a fine young man and not dishonest but the contention is the point I mentioned.
You judge..
Cheers
if you know that the equipment has to be "stress-tested" properly, why did you only fire 3 shots when you were doing the transaction with kk? if i were u i would try as much as possible. no matter how busy, i believe checking out the cam slightly further wouldn't take up much time. the question is... did kk rush you and told u that u only have a few seconds to test the camera? if so, maybe this will be more debatable. furthermore, 10 days personal warranty is such a generous move. if you really can't even spare the few minutes to play with it, why can't you pass it to some trusted person like your wife to try it?
Hi,
I wouldn't think once about purchasing a 2nd hand camera of any worth
without giving it a very thorough work out.
No matter how pressed for time, I would not part with my money unless I had tested it fully.
If pushed for time, I would either pass it up or get someone I trusted to do it for me.
Even if doing the above it failed a month later... my problem .....
Let the buyer beware !
I wouldn't think once about purchasing a 2nd hand camera of any worth
without giving it a very thorough work out.
No matter how pressed for time, I would not part with my money unless I had tested it fully.
If pushed for time, I would either pass it up or get someone I trusted to do it for me.
Even if doing the above it failed a month later... my problem .....
Let the buyer beware !
so jay is the buyer. well after reading jay statement, i will still say too bad. there is also no need to bring in your retiree friends into the story. they bear no relevance except to draw sympathy to your cause.
I still see that all of you have missed the point and that is the point of contention and that is the agreement and not the process of checking the cam.
And of course I definately cannot ask my wife as she is over 50 and can only handle point & shoot film cam.
And of course I definately cannot ask my wife as she is over 50 and can only handle point & shoot film cam.
would u refund if u are kk ?
i feel that going to china and unable to check is not the seller problem..
i feel that going to china and unable to check is not the seller problem..
was it a mutually agreed condition that the guarantee extends till the wedding when it could be stress tested and did you contest that the 10 day guarantee is too short at the time of deal?
Jay said:
Personally, if it had happened to me, I would not feel good too. But KK had already specified a 10 days guarantee as part of the deal. What he had meant in point #3 wasn't wrong either. May it be 1, 10, or 100 shots, technically, you've tested it.
From the details you've written, KK had also been upfront & honest to tell you that the CCD had been replaced too. Not many would do that if they want to sell you something.
Jay said:
Assumption of implicite understanding is not what is generally practiced and should never be because it implies an assumption of something that is not clearly stated.
But then again, no matter how thorough the test was done during time of transaction, it is also no guarantee that the problem might surface.
Prehaps KhoKing could produce a *Fake* receipt back dating the date of purchase so Ray could claim warranty from the manufacturer... I mean, KK might have to bare the cost of producing the receipt... but then again, I think it is relatively easier to do that in m'sia right? kekeke...
This was one of the experience I had while buying a Lens... kekekekeke... you two just work it out.
Thought you very steady one? Last time I encountered a similar problem and you wrote in my thread, something to the effect, that you won't encountered this type of problem becos you gave ten days money-back?Kho King said:
Anyway, I'm not here to "laugh" at you. Some buyers are just crap, I myself encountered a few such jerks through my sale of lens over Clubsnap. This guy, after buying my lens, insisted after that, the lens was faulty and insisted refund. He quoted all kind of nonsenses that he did all tests. Later he proposed alternatives to us to split the repair cost!
Anyway, care to share with me his description and HP no (if he didn't change it?). I suspected that he could be the same jerk I encountered recently.
And don't entertain him any further, nor agreed to share repair cost.
To Jay,
Sorry to hear that the CCD is faulty.
No one knows the truth or actual reason for it, especially for outsiders like us.
Thus no point debating abt it.
To prevent any disputes during a deal; that's where the warranty/guarantee comes into the picture.
KK is kind enough to give u that privilege(It's not a must), I believe most seller will not entertain such transaction as he also has to put himself into risk.
The most important fact in this whole deal is Point 2(10-days personal guarantee), other points stated are irrelevant.
-Point 2; 10-days personal guarantee-
*Seller risk getting back a faulty items after the transaction. (I dun have elaborate on this)
*Buyer is at an advantage. Hence make full use of this 10-days guarantee. Test it thoroughly. If u dun, for whatever reasons, if anything were to happened after that period, buyer has to take responsibilty.
Now, U have discovered that the CCD is faulty, after 1 mth. yes, to u, it is unfair that such thing happened to u. To KK, it is even unfair after he gave a 10-days personal guarantee.
In short, I'm sorry to say, U have no case at all.
Sorry to hear that the CCD is faulty.
No one knows the truth or actual reason for it, especially for outsiders like us.
Thus no point debating abt it.
To prevent any disputes during a deal; that's where the warranty/guarantee comes into the picture.
KK is kind enough to give u that privilege(It's not a must), I believe most seller will not entertain such transaction as he also has to put himself into risk.
The most important fact in this whole deal is Point 2(10-days personal guarantee), other points stated are irrelevant.
-Point 2; 10-days personal guarantee-
*Seller risk getting back a faulty items after the transaction. (I dun have elaborate on this)
*Buyer is at an advantage. Hence make full use of this 10-days guarantee. Test it thoroughly. If u dun, for whatever reasons, if anything were to happened after that period, buyer has to take responsibilty.
Now, U have discovered that the CCD is faulty, after 1 mth. yes, to u, it is unfair that such thing happened to u. To KK, it is even unfair after he gave a 10-days personal guarantee.
In short, I'm sorry to say, U have no case at all.
To Jay: I don't think you can assume that Kho King 'understood' you when you said that you could only test it during the wedding. I personally think you don't need a wedding to thoroughly test the camera (anyway: why test a camera at a wedding????? Another point I couldn't understand.......). Did Kho King verbally agreed that you could test it during the wedding which will be a month later? The fact that Kho King is posting here, to me says he didn't. Whether you thought he would understood you, that is your problem.
That would have overruled his 10 day guarantee period, and made it into a ten day warranty period but done later (not exactly ten days AFTER the deal was closed). If this was the case, then Kho King would have said that to you, and he wouldn't have post this question here.
Looks like there was a big mis-communication going on here. I believe that you didn't specify enough that you wanted to have then ten day testing period after one month (another assumption that you shouldn't have is that these warranty periods can be moved along the timeline as you wish...).
It was your problem that you couldn't test the camera properly, you however did have the chance to test it properly. Whether you bought the camera for a friend or yourself is irrelevant too here. You likely shouldn't have bought the camera when you know that you only could have ested it a month later, why didn't you buy the camera a month later when you had time to test it?
Hong Sien
That would have overruled his 10 day guarantee period, and made it into a ten day warranty period but done later (not exactly ten days AFTER the deal was closed). If this was the case, then Kho King would have said that to you, and he wouldn't have post this question here.
Looks like there was a big mis-communication going on here. I believe that you didn't specify enough that you wanted to have then ten day testing period after one month (another assumption that you shouldn't have is that these warranty periods can be moved along the timeline as you wish...).
It was your problem that you couldn't test the camera properly, you however did have the chance to test it properly. Whether you bought the camera for a friend or yourself is irrelevant too here. You likely shouldn't have bought the camera when you know that you only could have ested it a month later, why didn't you buy the camera a month later when you had time to test it?
Hong Sien
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