What has SG become? Keep increasing FARES?

[jsbn]

The last 2 taxi I took was on weekend waiting at taxi stand... all empty taxi just passed by without slowing down. After waiting for about 30 minutes, I started to call Comfort and for about 15 minutes I get multiple "please press xxx and a sarcastic "all operators are engaged at the moment, have a nice day" and hang up. Finally manage to get connected and another round of "please press xxx" and then got on hold for another 15 minutes before I got someone alive on the phone. After this, it took 5 minutes for the taxi to arrive (hmm... is this serendipity or was he waiting around the corner?)

So this taxi cost me $4 booking + 50% midnight charge (wishful thinking on taking cabs at 11ish) + normal taxi fare, empty hp battery (and perhaps a future brain tumor) and 1 hour of my precious life forever gone.

Another time I took a taxi from Changi Airport Cargo (CAC) area to Airport Logistic Port of Singapore (ALPS). CAC is just a couple of km from ALPS. Normally it cost me $1 peak + approx $3 taxi fare. But when I took CitiCab, they charged me $1 peak + $3 airport + taxi fare... when i asked why this is so, he said its the standard procedure and the other drivers just don't know. When I refused to pay the surcharge, he proceded to drive around looking for police. Since I was late, I just paid, took down the licence number, and walk back to my destination. Emailed CitiCab just to know if the taxi driver is correct but never got any reply. I encountered this twice from CitiCab so I just stop taking taxi from them. My main contention here is on how exactly the surcharge work and how boundary is being established. Taxi may be more expensive in Japan but thank goodness I will never save enough money to actually go to Japan.

I'll give u a rough breakdown of the rough cab prices in Japan:

- A taxi ride from Narita Airport in Chiba to Shinjuku in Central Tokyo costs approximately SGD$400 (incl. highway tolls)
- Flagdown taxi rate is like 500Yen or SGD$8 for the first 2km
- For every subsequent jump, it would be 100Yen or apprx SGD$1.40
- A 20min taxi ride stopping at every single traffic light would set u back approximately 3000Yen or SGD$50 1 way.

That's how prices are. But a small consolation is that they made it up in service, safety and shockingly good service. And they wun go KNNBCCB at the driver in front and proceed to overtake aggressively cut the driver in front and give 'em The Bird.

Or maybe boast tales from their 'glory days' and proceed to drive with hands off the wheel.

Or maybe upon learning u have a license, give u a theory lesson on extreme evasive driving.

Perhaps curse and berate the govt for every screwups in their own life, from bad debts, overdue bills to their children not filial to them and wife leaving them.

Maybe u guys would like a cabby who punctuates his sentence with a CB or a KNN?

Juz some of the cabbies I'd encountered.

 

[vince123123]

Well, what you want to find out from CityCab is whether the cab driver made up his own charge, or whether the company as a whole endorses his decision. Because Citycab has not responded, you will never know if it is their official position also (although maybe it indeed is so since you had the same experience with two of their cabs).

I use to take that route quite often and I would say twice with citicab I have to pay that surcharge but around 2 dozen times with other cabs and no surcharge so I was curious if (1) this is a citicab thing (they are deregulated so they can do as they please), (2) other cabs really did not know what is the airport boundary, and (3) for me to understand if outside cargo complex is really part of airport surcharge bec 6 meters from that is changi road and then changi beach already.

So unlike your case, mine is not really a complaint (more enquiry) and the driver may actually be right.. although I just remembered that when I flagged him and told him I wanna go that way (point to right), he said he is going that way (point to left), and I have to insist that I sincerely want to go that way (point to right again) before he let me in. The surcharge was $1 and after a few meters, airport charge was added. As you have said, they don't bother to take action unless they wanna get rid of you and your bunch of emails so I'll just post my experience to share.

Citicab may be owned by Comfort but its quite a big operation and they may belong to a different department managed by different people. BTW, Comfort did not have surcharge.

 

[shinken]

People say that as the consumer, the costs come down to us and we can't pass it on.

Let's ask ourselves whether that is true.

We expect our salaries to increase. Does your employer complain? We charge more for shooting weddings after getting some experience. Does anyone complain? No, we complain because some people charge lower than us, undercut and spoil market!

That's why I say we only complain if it hurts us. Feel free to complain - it's human nature. I also like to complain. Let's not even call it complain, let's call it feedback. I'm just trying to feedback and offer a rational side to things this time. ;p

You mean you get your pay rise everytime you ask for it? Can PM me the organisation you work for? You think it's easy for wedding photog to raise prices? Do you work as one?

But a lot of these organisations we are talking about successfully pass the pain of inflation down everytime they try. Don't make sweeping statements. The only sweeping statement you made that can hold truth across the board is that inflation affects everyone, that's all.

 

[icarus]

More good years ahead :thumbsup:
Soon bus fares will also go up... :sweat:

 

[ortega]

lets hope that soon pay packet also go up

 

[Zplus]

Well, just dont take a cab for a day. Take a MRT or cycle.
And then do that for the next few days....

 

[dawgbyte77]

I heard recently that there was a watermelon from Japan that cost $70 here in SG. But Japanese people still buy it because its the same price as they pay in Japan. And the taste is sweeter compared to local counterpart. Each fruit was taken care of and any bruise or discoloration in the skin are outright rejected. My point is that in Japan, if taxi is compared to everything else, it kinda normalize. Another thing is that the culture is based on perfection and value at any cost. Unlike us going to another country and everywhere we look we gasp "so cheap!"... haircut "so cheap!".. dress "so cheap!".. beer "so cheap!".. louie veeton "so cheap!.. hey how come wrong spelling?"... so many "cheap cheap" the new born bird in another thread will be so embarassed.

I have to agree with your samples below because one driver taught me how to save beer money by drinking through a straw and get plastered faster (which is not so bad tip if you think about it).:bsmilie:

I'll give u a rough breakdown of the rough cab prices in Japan:

- A taxi ride from Narita Airport in Chiba to Shinjuku in Central Tokyo costs approximately SGD$400 (incl. highway tolls)
- Flagdown taxi rate is like 500Yen or SGD$8 for the first 2km
- For every subsequent jump, it would be 100Yen or apprx SGD$1.40
- A 20min taxi ride stopping at every single traffic light would set u back approximately 3000Yen or SGD$50 1 way.

That's how prices are. But a small consolation is that they made it up in service, safety and shockingly good service. And they wun go KNNBCCB at the driver in front and proceed to overtake aggressively cut the driver in front and give 'em The Bird.

Or maybe boast tales from their 'glory days' and proceed to drive with hands off the wheel.

Or maybe upon learning u have a license, give u a theory lesson on extreme evasive driving.

Perhaps curse and berate the govt for every screwups in their own life, from bad debts, overdue bills to their children not filial to them and wife leaving them.

Maybe u guys would like a cabby who punctuates his sentence with a CB or a KNN?

Juz some of the cabbies I'd encountered.

 

[dawgbyte77]

Well, what you want to find out from CityCab is whether the cab driver made up his own charge, or whether the company as a whole endorses his decision. Because Citycab has not responded, you will never know if it is their official position also (although maybe it indeed is so since you had the same experience with two of their cabs).

My only gripe is that the flagdown and fare is $3 something, and the surcharges are $4, which makes it more expensive than the actual taxi fare. I know I could walk but 1 km under the sun in your business suit... I will look like a rockstar by the time I reach my destination. :bsmilie:

If I sent email, each day I expect reply and don't then I will feel stressed... kinda feel that there is unfinished business lingering. So now I just put them as bad experience and a nice beer story to tell.. don't wanna go through that again. So I think not really worth it since the incident, if it is errant, is very isolated to location and timing and destination, so repeatability is quite low.

 

[jdredd]

all those complaining, should have cast their vote for glenda han & co ;p

actually, whilst our cabbies arent the best, i do feel sorry for them... considering how much they need to earn to pay off the rental before the money goes to them.. it can sometimes be a struggle.

i just hope this added increase, goes to their pockets and not to the coffers of the cab companies.

 

[kcuf2]

all those complaining, should have cast their vote for glenda han & co ;p

Well, more ppl have awaken from their nightmares and made the right decision, but still the majority havent wake up.

But what i can confirm, one of the main reason for intending to indulge in nightmare is not to upset the stock market.
I have heard countless people (from age 21 to 75) telling me they had no choice but to remain indulged in nightmare becos their money is locked up in stocks, and if the "results" go the other way, the stock market would tumble, and their investment & retirement money will byebye.
its a thing of bo bian, no choice...
food for thought: issit really a mandate? or is it still because of $$$??

 

[Nisa]

If everyone is having a difficult time... then who is having an easy time then? :dunno:

 

[solarii]

Haha been reading through the posts....

Wah all better be careful man.

Wait Mr Bhavani write in and accuse you all of distorting the facts, encouraging cynicism and despondency and becoming a partisan player in politics

Wait they shut down CS.... Cannot say these kinda things, even if its true.

All those living in S'pore should know why you cannot discuss non pro govt issues.

for those who have no idea what I'm talking about:

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2006/07/index.html

 

[shinken]

Haha been reading through the posts....
Wah all better be careful man.
Wait Mr Bhavani write in and accuse you all of distorting the facts, encouraging cynicism and despondency and becoming a partisan player in politics
Wait they shut down CS.... Cannot say these kinda things, even if its true.
All those living in S'pore should know why you cannot discuss non pro govt issues.
for those who have no idea what I'm talking about:

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2006/07/index.html

Well, in all fairness, Mr Bhavani is not shutting "Mr Brown up". Instead, he is hoping "Mr Brown" would be more perceptive as his opinions expressed are widely circulated. He also encouraged "Mr Brown" to offer constructive alternatives. These are all very fair comments and I believe a right direction to take.

So let me get more constructive:

Certain goods and services affect more people than others. There's a reason why taxis belong to the category of "public transport", even if it caters to a selected income group. Thus, the fare hikes affect a substantial number of people.

There is a strong need for providers of public goods to remain competitive and profitable through other mechanisms other than using price, especially for goods with very low elasticity (difficult to be substituted). While some may say that buses and MRT are alternatives, they are not direct substitutes - meaning that they cater to another income group with different needs. The argument is also not comparable because buses and MRT in SG also depend highly on increasing prices to remain profitable. This comparison distracts from the issue - the need for public good/svc providers to remain profitable and reducing the dependency on price mechanisms, the need to be transparent about the calculation of fare hikes; the spiralling increase in the cost of living in Singapore.

There is an even stronger need to be transparent about the calculation of approved fare hikes and price increase for goods and services which affect the majority of the population. Let me put it simply: After the increase in price, how equitable is the increase in profits of these service providers in relation to (in this case, reason cited is petrol prices) the increase in prices? If the increased in petrol price is $X, I would expect to see that the increase in net returns to be $X or close to that. Given this level of transparency, I am sure PTC will have a far easier time communicating with the public whenever there's a transport fare hike.

Thirdly, comparison with other countries is far from equitable, and should not be a basis for revision. The cost of living is different. The standard of living is different. The proportion of transport cost in relation to total cost of living is different. The average wage is different. The dependency ratio of different income groups on different modes of transport is different. (The people who can afford to take taxi in Japan can afford to buy condos in SG for investments. How about those who can afford to take taxis in SG? But I digress) Such a comparison distracts from the main issue and is pretty much pointless.

While many industries fight very hard to come up with creative ways to push their businesses up notches in order to keep their head up amidst spiralling inflation, it is draining to the entire economy if one section simply relies on price mechanism alone. The burden is passed on to other economic players who may not have the same luxury of passing the costs of inflation in the same manner. Those that do, will do so, encouraging inflation to spiral further.

There. Open and constructive.

 

[kenrai]

Well, in all fairness, Mr Bhavani is not shutting "Mr Brown up". Instead, he is hoping "Mr Brown" would be more perceptive as his opinions expressed are widely circulated. He also encouraged "Mr Brown" to offer constructive alternatives. These are all very fair comments and I believe a right direction to take.

So let me get more constructive:

Certain goods and services affect more people than others. There's a reason why taxis belong to the category of "public transport", even if it caters to a selected income group. Thus, the fare hikes affect a substantial number of people.

There is a strong need for providers of public goods to remain competitive and profitable through other mechanisms other than using price, especially for goods with very low elasticity (difficult to be substituted). While some may say that buses and MRT are alternatives, they are not direct substitutes - meaning that they cater to another income group with different needs. The argument is also not comparable because buses and MRT in SG also depend highly on increasing prices to remain profitable. This comparison distracts from the issue - the need for public good/svc providers to remain profitable and reducing the dependency on price mechanisms, the need to be transparent about the calculation of fare hikes; the spiralling increase in the cost of living in Singapore.

There is an even stronger need to be transparent about the calculation of approved fare hikes and price increase for goods and services which affect the majority of the population. Let me put it simply: After the increase in price, how equitable is the increase in profits of these service providers in relation to (in this case, reason cited is petrol prices) the increase in prices? If the increased in petrol price is $X, I would expect to see that the increase in net returns to be $X or close to that. Given this level of transparency, I am sure PTC will have a far easier time communicating with the public whenever there's a transport fare hike.

Thirdly, comparison with other countries is far from equitable, and should not be a basis for revision. The cost of living is different. The standard of living is different. The proportion of transport cost in relation to total cost of living is different. The average wage is different. The dependency ratio of different income groups on different modes of transport is different. (The people who can afford to take taxi in Japan can afford to buy condos in SG for investments. How about those who can afford to take taxis in SG? But I digress) Such a comparison distracts from the main issue and is pretty much pointless.

While many industries fight very hard to come up with creative ways to push their businesses up notches in order to keep their head up amidst spiralling inflation, it is draining to the entire economy if one section simply relies on price mechanism alone. The burden is passed on to other economic players who may not have the same luxury of passing the costs of inflation in the same manner. Those that do, will do so, encouraging inflation to spiral further.

There. Open and constructive.

Agree with your points on price transparency, but IMO the lack of real competition is really the main cause for the inefficiency… also I wonder if there is any point at all to provide alternative constructive suggestions for a society where everything are ultimately controlled by a single body?

 

[melnjes]

You mean you get your pay rise everytime you ask for it? Can PM me the organisation you work for? You think it's easy for wedding photog to raise prices? Do you work as one?

But a lot of these organisations we are talking about successfully pass the pain of inflation down everytime they try. Don't make sweeping statements. The only sweeping statement you made that can hold truth across the board is that inflation affects everyone, that's all.

These were never intended to be sweeping statements, but merely examples of how we tend to complain without considering the bigger picture. If the examples don't apply to you, then they don't.

I do hope though that you expect salary increments (read my post properly). Expectations do not always translate to reality, but that's besides the point. I don't ask for salary raises but certainly expect them however small the amount (at least 10 cents per day, or make that 20 cents for a to-and-fro trip) at least every 5 years. If we expect our own salaries to be raised, then I'm sure you'd agree that we cannot in good conscience begrudge a 10 cents increment to anyone. We've got bigger tables to bang than bang about a 10 cents fare increase.

Before you generalise it to be a sweeping statement, allow me to qualify that the 2nd paragraph only applies to you if
(i) you had expected salary increments when you were working before (in case you are retired now)
(ii) you are expecting salary increments because you are holding a job.
(iii) you will be expecting salary increments (in case you are a student now)
It will not apply to you if you never had to work, are not working, or will not be working (in case you're some rich kid, or maybe not)

 

[vince123123]

Is it a 10 cent increase? I was of the view that it was much more than that.

 

[shinken]

These were never intended to be sweeping statements, but merely examples of how we tend to complain without considering the bigger picture. If the examples don't apply to you, then they don't.

I do hope though that you expect salary increments (read my post properly). Expectations do not always translate to reality, but that's besides the point. I don't ask for salary raises but certainly expect them however small the amount (at least 10 cents per day, or make that 20 cents for a to-and-fro trip) at least every 5 years. If we expect our own salaries to be raised, then I'm sure you'd agree that we cannot in good conscience begrudge a 10 cents increment to anyone. We've got bigger tables to bang than bang about a 10 cents fare increase.

Before you generalise it to be a sweeping statement, allow me to qualify that the 2nd paragraph only applies to you if
(i) you had expected salary increments when you were working before (in case you are retired now)
(ii) you are expecting salary increments because you are holding a job.
(iii) you will be expecting salary increments (in case you are a student now)
It will not apply to you if you never had to work, are not working, or will not be working (in case you're some rich kid, or maybe not)

Yes, I can see a big picture, probably not the biggest picture, but I can definitely see beyond my immediate sphere. Doesn't matter, the assumptions of expectations and how they translate or not translate into reality. That is not the point. The "point", I have iterated in the long-winded post. The point of the point is "What has SG become? Keep increasing FARES?" The point of me replying to you is, people complain, or according to some people, "whine" for good reasons. It affects different people at different levels at different magnitudes. It doesn't affect me at all. I'm not "complaining". I see a repercussion on the entire economy and how it breeds complacency in certain sectors of the economy.

 

[melnjes]

Is it a 10 cent increase? I was of the view that it was much more than that.

From the Straits Times:

Prompted by rocketing fuel costs, Singapore's largest taxi operator ComfortDelGro is increasing its flag down fare by 10 cents to $2.50 for regular taxis - the first hike in 12 years - and by 20 cents to $2.80 for Mercedes cabs.
It is also doubling the $1 peak period surcharge to $2 and will start the morning peak period a half-hour earlier, at 7am instead of 7.30am.



From the way some people are crying foul over here, I don't blame you for thinking that they take Mercedes cabs every day during peak hours.

 

[shinken]

Agree with your points on price transparency, but IMO the lack of real competition is really the main cause for the inefficiency… also I wonder if there is any point at all to provide alternative constructive suggestions for a society where everything are ultimately controlled by a single body?

I didn't give a constructive alternative. I'm not in the position to give a constructive alternative because I don't have the benefit to be in the field. But I definitely have confidence in the experts in the field to be able to be more creative in looking for solutions. If only they are pushed to do so, like to many other players in the industry,

While I can't offer an alternative, I can at least be constructive when voicing my opinion. In the sense that I try to weigh and balance the opposing perspectives in my opinion. Is there a point? Well, to begin with, constructive voices get more attention than non-constructive bit**ing. But more importantly, I am exercising my civil rights (yes, I know some forumers feel SGreans dun hv rights). I'm not voicing my opinion to get a better life, but in hope of the place I call home would be a better place. At the end of the day, how it translates to reality, how it impact the "big picture" would be beyond me. But at the individual level, I did what I could.

 

[melnjes]

The point of the point is "What has SG become? Keep increasing FARES?"

I understand now. My point is different from your point. Mine is "What has SG become? Keep complaining about increasing fares? (by 10 cents)"

Since we're talking about different things, we were never in disagreement. Peace!