Nope, 99.99999% of the time they think they will get "exposure" and "build a portfolio" and think they can then get higher-paying clients... without realizing they just got "exposure" as a super-cheapo photog, and that's all that they will ever bee in the eyes of the customers who hear about them. It will be the "Eh, I got event lor, no budget left for photog, who to call? Ah, that guy from CS! He anyhow shoot for free!" reputation that you then build.
What do you think about being a Budget photographer?
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Nope, 99.99999% of the time they think they will get "exposure" and "build a portfolio" and think they can then get higher-paying clients... without realizing they just got "exposure" as a super-cheapo photog, and that's all that they will ever bee in the eyes of the customers who hear about them. It will be the "Eh, I got event lor, no budget left for photog, who to call? Ah, that guy from CS! He anyhow shoot for free!" reputation that you then build.
yes it is good that clients knows what to expect.
Yes there are many hobbyist can shoot very good.
actually whole scenario was a little more complicated, and should be categories in digital natives or not... and those who suffer as a professionals are mostly those who are film base.... meaning they started out with film and till now, even equipped with a good DSLR, finds it hard to change mentality.... speaking on behalf of some uncle friends i have...
they are not as creative and does not possess great PS skills and knowledge.... they suffer the hardest..
i now busy edit so come back later... but kudos to you and some guys here who does not make this thread a flame thread.... maintaining good dialogue
I know of a guy who charged $12.00 per hours for wedding shoot and now > $1k for 10 hours. Not exactly very high yet, but his price went up quite a bit under a reasonable amount of time
It's really about the person, apart from the idea or method of doing it and how you manage your client, in my opinion.
Oh ya, one more thing, maybe he got the time to afford to slowly build up. He was a poly student and now serving NS.
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But then,the way he is charging his rate for that kind of price and it make more diffcult for those who is in this line.And everyone is making so much noise for that kind of rate.
One photographer charging lower will not affect the market. But if a pro finds that he's not getting jobs because of many photographers charging lower, he's either overpricing himself, his marketing is seriously wrong or maybe his skills are below those cheaper than him, in any case he have to look at himself first and not others.
if you still remember the post of unsatisfied mummy I quoted from any forum, the mummy is paying $160 for 3 hours coverage, and she is expecting the photographer to be professional.
that is how exactly customers will behave, regardless you being paid $50 or $500.
You can't tell customers that because they are only paying that much of money, so this is what they get from you. NO ONE will accept your excuse, they will flame you in all over the internet, facebook, forums, blogs or whatever places.
so never! never! ever! think you can get away your responsibility by charging customers cheap for you services. We have seen too many cases of such unsatisfied customers.
find time to buy him coffee, ask him if he able to rewind the time, what are the things he would like to it differently.
and if you can read bro JasonB post again, you will have better understanding.
I know of a photographer who charge $900.00 per wedding, $280.00 per 2 1/2 hour ROM and $500.00 per half day event/birthday. Some may say that he's under cutting the market but in his words:
"I work 4 days a week* and earn $60,000.00+ a year, how many photographers can work 4 days a week and earn $60,000.00+ a year? So am I undercutting the market or are other photographer who don't earn enough overpricing themself?"
Is this still consider as undercutting the market?
*He shoots jpeg, get it right on camera and 90% of his 4R are printed straight out of his camera so min PP for his works. That's why he only works 4 days a week, he min the need for PP and spends max 1/2 day on editing for each wedding/event.
"I work 4 days a week* and earn $60,000.00+ a year, how many photographers can work 4 days a week and earn $60,000.00+ a year? So am I undercutting the market or are other photographer who don't earn enough overpricing themself?"
Is this still consider as undercutting the market?
*He shoots jpeg, get it right on camera and 90% of his 4R are printed straight out of his camera so min PP for his works. That's why he only works 4 days a week, he min the need for PP and spends max 1/2 day on editing for each wedding/event.
This is so true, too many a times hobbist/new photographer think that they are not so good so they charge low but forget that the clients still have expections and this expections many a times exceed this new photographer's skills.
Photographers should understand the clients expections, let the clients know what to expect and if both have a clear understanding, than take the job, not try to hide behind 'I charge low so you must also expect low".
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Good for this guy!!! We'll happy that things turn out for the better for him after a period of hard work building his pricing. But how many other photographer are as lucky as him or are as good as him? From past expericence, for every one of such photographer there will be at least 5 who can't get out of this "cheap photographer" image.
I thought this section is about helping those who are interested to be a full time professional?
Let hobbyist do what they want.
So for hobbyist to read these section and interpret it in their way is kinda wrong wavelength and totally waste of time. Even worst to come and argue their point.
Hobbyist charge to do shoot and that's not a business.
A business is only legitimate if you register your business with ACRA and have business activity.
So why hobbyist come to this section and asking pro to see it their way? I just don't see the point.
Regards,
Hart
Let hobbyist do what they want.
So for hobbyist to read these section and interpret it in their way is kinda wrong wavelength and totally waste of time. Even worst to come and argue their point.
Hobbyist charge to do shoot and that's not a business.
A business is only legitimate if you register your business with ACRA and have business activity.
So why hobbyist come to this section and asking pro to see it their way? I just don't see the point.
Regards,
Hart
Sad to say, this problem exist not only in photography world.
Look at our foreign worker friend. I got an auntie who was a hawker stall assistant. She fetch a pay of $1200.00 per month, which can barely support her.
But the problem is, our foreign worker friend, who is younger and more energetic than my aunt, only demands a pay of $750.00 per month for the same hour of work, or even longer hour of work. Dammit.
To us, we thought that why are they spoiling our market, exactly the same sentiment.
But the problem is already here and is very real. My aunt has no other skills cus she worked as a stall assistant all along.
But she has an edge over the foreign friend, for example she can speak malay, hokkien, cantonese to entertain the customers.
Imagine if she can only speak chinese, but everything else remains the same, she will lose out to this foreign friend.
Although cruel, but now it is up to my aunt to make herself more sellable to her employer of she will lose her job one day.
Sorry dude, the title of this sections says "Discussions on the business aspects of photography - weddings, events, freelancing and others."
Hobbyist taking up assignment is considered as freelancing.
Don't blame you for not looking from a hobbyist point of view, and never expect to, like how i never expect a Singaporean construction working to understand a foreign worker's plight for stealing their job at dirt cheap pay.
But the problem is here to stay, so face it.
I too think that photography is very tough job. Not everyone can make it. I think everyone started very passionately because people around him told him "you shoot really good pictures", but in the end gave up due to demanding market. So kudos to those who are still striving in this field.
Gonna do work liao. Dont reply too much clubsnap.
Will join in the discussion at night. =)
One of my friends just engaged a small team for about $8000 for his wedding in a couple of months time. That was extra and not part of his wedding package. He skipped the low end photographers entirely because he wanted decent results. Note it's decent, not even super pro results.
I guess if you are good, you do not even need to worry about the low end photogs. Frankly from a biz point, do you want those clients that always look for cheapskate deals? I am in business (non photography) and i certainly don't want them. In a business relation, not only must the customer be comfortable with the provider, the provider must be comfortable with the clients too, so as to have a win-win situation.
I don't earn from photography, but if I ever decide to in the future, I will rather go for a short getaway in our neighbouring countries than to just get $200 for an assignment and faces possible headaches after that.
Show people what you have, how you are different, get testimonials, and charge what you deserve. Don't ever settle for less.
I guess if you are good, you do not even need to worry about the low end photogs. Frankly from a biz point, do you want those clients that always look for cheapskate deals? I am in business (non photography) and i certainly don't want them. In a business relation, not only must the customer be comfortable with the provider, the provider must be comfortable with the clients too, so as to have a win-win situation.
I don't earn from photography, but if I ever decide to in the future, I will rather go for a short getaway in our neighbouring countries than to just get $200 for an assignment and faces possible headaches after that.
Show people what you have, how you are different, get testimonials, and charge what you deserve. Don't ever settle for less.
IMHO in the world we live in, we all fall prey to market forces therefore these things happen, and must think of the consequences of what might happen if we force control in this matter(consumers lose out).
Particular to this case, an OCS event @ shangri la? Shame on the organizers. This is not a matter of cannot afford, but don't see value in it. I would gladly take photos for free if a friend has broke the bank for his/her wedding and wants to keep precious memories of one of the most important days of his/her life(I'm sure fellow photographers can relate to this sentiment). But for an organization with the biggest public service budget in the country? Not a chance. A turned off at how faithopejoy tried to play on other people's values on charity.
Finally, I think that no matter what opinion you have on this matter, the TS faithopejoy's friend will be tagged as a cheapo.
Particular to this case, an OCS event @ shangri la? Shame on the organizers. This is not a matter of cannot afford, but don't see value in it. I would gladly take photos for free if a friend has broke the bank for his/her wedding and wants to keep precious memories of one of the most important days of his/her life(I'm sure fellow photographers can relate to this sentiment). But for an organization with the biggest public service budget in the country? Not a chance. A turned off at how faithopejoy tried to play on other people's values on charity.
Finally, I think that no matter what opinion you have on this matter, the TS faithopejoy's friend will be tagged as a cheapo.
WOW just read that faithopejoy is making a business out of this! So I assume she was quoting at that lowball price and sourcing @ CS in the pretense of helping a friend. I appologise to the unknown 'friend' of faithopejoy and double shame on faithopejoy!
I can't do that as a wedding/event photographer, not a problem when I was a commerical photographer :bsmilie:
But yeah, at the end of the day it is what you feel is enough and you're happy how you got it.
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