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- Thread starter Wolfgang
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Deadpoet said:
While I have always agreed with allowing dissenting views, I do not agree that a minority must be given unequal/disproportionate leeway, especially when its views degenerates into name-calling.
Moderators/Admins here have the hardest part; not just the time required, but also the maturity to understand and the EQ to accept an acceptable balance, which they choose to allow and defend.
A thankless task. Great job. :thumbsup:
montblancpen
New Member
well said!Hi Everybody
Just would like to share some thoughts on this thread and CS in general, so bear with me while I ramble...
It's been a little over 1.5 years since I registered, and a bit over 2 years since I was first introduced to CS by a colleague of mine. It took me about 6 months to lurk around and to get to understand CS more. I think I've made the right decision in joining up with CS...or did I?
I have noticed a certain air of elitism creeping into CS about a year ago. This elitism manifests itself in the form of impatient replies in forums ("such a simple thing, you don't even know"), arrogance about one's knowledge/skills ("your shots lack good composition, and I can't stand the halo around the object"), non-sharing of basic information ("oh, I can't tell you the location..you'll have to figure it out yourself) and to even arguments about which brand is better ("XX is better because it has everything you wanted, including a satellite dish!").
This elitism has brought certain sections of the CS forums into what we can kindly describe as the gutter. And I'm glad the mods realise this and are taking steps to reclaim that back. However, I fear that this might be a bit of a challenge.
The basic problem is that as we have progressed along, we have forgotten how we first started on this hobby. So now, when newbies come along, we tsk tsk them and shake our heads at their ignorance. This in turns creates a perception that this is really a private place for the know-it-alls, professionals, people with every mother-father lens in the world, those who can afford $500 wireless flash systems, and even commercial entities.
So what can the mods do? Well for starters, bring the whole CS experience back to it's basic form..which is, by the public for the public. Honestly, I can't really care what some high-brow guy thinks about my composition, lighting or subject matter. Photography is about how one feels at the time of shooting, and not what others think.
The sheer number of "Subject Matter Experts" (SMEs) in CS on photo composition alone is scary enough to a newbie, who ends up feeling that every shot they take is going to be torn apart by everyone in the forums.
There is a need for a buddy system in the forum, in which an experienced photog volunteers to take a group of newbies under his/her wing and helps them enjoy their stay in CS.
I do hope that the moderators would sit down and seriously look at potential ways of helping bring back CS to its heyday again. I know that the mods are volunteers who also have lives to run, but it doesn't hurt to recruit additional capable people to back up the mods.
So, there you are, my thoughts on the whole CS thingy to date, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how CS will grow in the coming months and years. I'll stick around for the ride...
My $0.02 worth...with GST of course!
Regards,
Clipper
Just would like to share some thoughts on this thread and CS in general, so bear with me while I ramble...
It's been a little over 1.5 years since I registered, and a bit over 2 years since I was first introduced to CS by a colleague of mine. It took me about 6 months to lurk around and to get to understand CS more. I think I've made the right decision in joining up with CS...or did I?
I have noticed a certain air of elitism creeping into CS about a year ago. This elitism manifests itself in the form of impatient replies in forums ("such a simple thing, you don't even know"), arrogance about one's knowledge/skills ("your shots lack good composition, and I can't stand the halo around the object"), non-sharing of basic information ("oh, I can't tell you the location..you'll have to figure it out yourself) and to even arguments about which brand is better ("XX is better because it has everything you wanted, including a satellite dish!").
This elitism has brought certain sections of the CS forums into what we can kindly describe as the gutter. And I'm glad the mods realise this and are taking steps to reclaim that back. However, I fear that this might be a bit of a challenge.
The basic problem is that as we have progressed along, we have forgotten how we first started on this hobby. So now, when newbies come along, we tsk tsk them and shake our heads at their ignorance. This in turns creates a perception that this is really a private place for the know-it-alls, professionals, people with every mother-father lens in the world, those who can afford $500 wireless flash systems, and even commercial entities.
So what can the mods do? Well for starters, bring the whole CS experience back to it's basic form..which is, by the public for the public. Honestly, I can't really care what some high-brow guy thinks about my composition, lighting or subject matter. Photography is about how one feels at the time of shooting, and not what others think.
The sheer number of "Subject Matter Experts" (SMEs) in CS on photo composition alone is scary enough to a newbie, who ends up feeling that every shot they take is going to be torn apart by everyone in the forums.
There is a need for a buddy system in the forum, in which an experienced photog volunteers to take a group of newbies under his/her wing and helps them enjoy their stay in CS.
I do hope that the moderators would sit down and seriously look at potential ways of helping bring back CS to its heyday again. I know that the mods are volunteers who also have lives to run, but it doesn't hurt to recruit additional capable people to back up the mods.
So, there you are, my thoughts on the whole CS thingy to date, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how CS will grow in the coming months and years. I'll stick around for the ride...
My $0.02 worth...with GST of course!
Regards,
Clipper
V
vince123123
Guest
Unfortunately, the life cycle of a forums is like this. Initially when it is first created, there are a lot of newbies, proportionately. At that time, it doesn't seem uncommon to ask new or stupid or beginner questions.
After a while, these newbies think they have became experts, and when new newbies come along, these "experts" will deride the newbies, and ask them to "do a search" etc etc. The funny thing is that the newbies could be asking the very same questions the experts asked before. But because the experts now know the answer, they think the newbie's questions are stupid questions. Yes, the newbies may not have done a search, or perhaps they have done a search, but failed to locate any useful information, or simply because the search has revealed such a plethora of information that the newbie cannot sift out.
The funny thing is, if the experts don't feel like helping, they could very well just keep quiet. However, unfortunately, they feel a strong need to deride newbies and hence, the trend, once started, is continued by many others.
After a while, these newbies think they have became experts, and when new newbies come along, these "experts" will deride the newbies, and ask them to "do a search" etc etc. The funny thing is that the newbies could be asking the very same questions the experts asked before. But because the experts now know the answer, they think the newbie's questions are stupid questions. Yes, the newbies may not have done a search, or perhaps they have done a search, but failed to locate any useful information, or simply because the search has revealed such a plethora of information that the newbie cannot sift out.
The funny thing is, if the experts don't feel like helping, they could very well just keep quiet. However, unfortunately, they feel a strong need to deride newbies and hence, the trend, once started, is continued by many others.
ClipperSG said:
Hi, you might want to leave the community if you cannot gel in as wolfgang has mentioned. :embrass:
Don't flame me, I'm just highlighting his point.
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost.php?p=2249800&postcount=40
wolfgang said:
espn said:
Well done ESPN. You have taken my original point and completely used it for your purpose. Good on you. *Shrugs* No skin off my back i reckon but well, this does really show what kind of a person you are.
We both know where we stand in such matters Michael. Anyhow, i wish you all the very best in everything else you do away from this forum.
Goodbye.
I don't think there's a need for me to argue or defend myself regarding to what you think. What sort of person I am, is what sort person I was moulded by you to be.Wolfgang said:Well done ESPN. You have taken my original point and completely used it for your purpose. Good on you. *Shrugs* No skin off my back i reckon but well, this does really show what kind of a person you are.
We both know where we stand in such matters Michael. Anyhow, i wish you all the very best in everything else you do away from this forum.
Goodbye.
Ok, enough, don't OT, anything unsatisfactory, take it with me to PM.
The same goes for your career and photography. All the best.
CiaoZ.
ClipperSG said:
Dear Clipper, we are pleased that you took the effort to share your thought and think of ways to better this forum. For that, I do applaud you. Meanwhile, I do seek everyone's understanding that the majority of the unrest is caused by a small minority and we are trying our best to take corrective measures as well as to persuade everyone to play nice.
I think hoh... that we cannot stop people from being outspoken leh. All we can do is hope that people (aka The SHEEP) can judge wisely for themselves.
The SHEEP must understand that almost all leaders are driven by relatively big egos. Even leaders who want to save the world want credit. But often they can mislead others. After all they are human and it's possible that sometimes their intention is selfish, or they are not much wiser than you, no matter how smart they sound.
I feel that people, especially newbies, should be more individual and be independent thinkers. So that even if 'leader' says something the SHEEP wont be led astray. Good examples not to follow include suicide bombers and their terrorist leaders
Moral of the story:
Don't give anyone the power to mislead by being their devoted follower or supporter
In short, don't be a dog.
The SHEEP must understand that almost all leaders are driven by relatively big egos. Even leaders who want to save the world want credit. But often they can mislead others. After all they are human and it's possible that sometimes their intention is selfish, or they are not much wiser than you, no matter how smart they sound.
I feel that people, especially newbies, should be more individual and be independent thinkers. So that even if 'leader' says something the SHEEP wont be led astray. Good examples not to follow include suicide bombers and their terrorist leaders
Moral of the story:
Don't give anyone the power to mislead by being their devoted follower or supporter
In short, don't be a dog.
Can you point us to where this remark was made and in what context?teckyy said:
We are not psychics and cannot humanly trawl the 5000 or so posts that are made in the forums every day, so some assistance here would be much appreciated.
Please PM me if you find it inconvenient to post it here.
Darren said:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2242632#post2242632
Post #17...."a*****e" was used.
let me check the others..
Zeckson Chow
Senior Member
Hello Darren,
Just look at how I was replied by some members in the forum on the Bernice threads recently in Portraits. I was called names and names. Hope can direct you to the source.
Just look at how I was replied by some members in the forum on the Bernice threads recently in Portraits. I was called names and names. Hope can direct you to the source.
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2179715#post2179715
post #21...calling someone an "a**" and inferring others have no brains.(insults no?)
post #21...calling someone an "a**" and inferring others have no brains.(insults no?)
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2222981#post2222981
post #114...self explanatory. I do not understand how one can resort to such behaviour over a topic on zone system.
post #114...self explanatory. I do not understand how one can resort to such behaviour over a topic on zone system.
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