The "Hwa Chong student punched bus driver" Poll

[vince123123]

For your first paragraph, the Police is mistaken to say that it is a civil case. They always use this as a preliminary filter to discourage people from making reports.

The correct position is that the cases they are talking about are non-seizable offences, and what they really mean by "civil case" is that the complainant has to make a Magistrate's Complaint.

The appalling part is even the police can't get it right.

As for the next part, well true, we don't know what happened, so it is up to the bus driver to institute proceedings if he wishes to. If so, then I'd say that jail can't necessarily be excluded the way you say it.

Whether it was the living daylights or just a punch doesn't absolve one from liability - it just affects the seriousness of the crime and/or the sentence. causing hurt can land you in jail.

As for the 2 day MC - well as you said, you weren't there, how do you know how seriously injured the bus driver was?

There is a difference between punch and beat. And in this instance we dont even now what really happen and we are all crying for blood. What I am trying to say is that I dont condone violence but please get one's facts right.... What about all those cases of people getting beaten to the point of pulp and the police say "Sorry this is civil case, we wont press charges"

We are making it seem as if the kid beat the living daylights out of the bus driver. Which incidentally is not true. And the 2 day mc.... oh please it doesnt mean he was so seriously injured that he had to be on mc for 2 days. It was more likely his company ask him to take a rest for 2 days.

Incidentally anyone heard the side of the story besides what we have read? What about the bus driver? was he really as passive as reported or did he add to the fuel?? I am not saying let the boy off but a punishment must match the crime. Not throw him in just because of what school he is in. I personally dont like the elitism in Singapore but I dont ask a boy to pay for my dislikes. Just because he is from a certian school, we want him dead. what if he was from a neighbourhood school? We just forget about it as his environment makes him a natural gangster??

 

[Yappy]

Unless u are white horse.... then different story. Your buddy take the 5 and 10 for you. The benefits of being elite.

Black horse or white horse.. sometimes you can get yr friend to help with some hidden ......?????

 

[Yappy]

For your first paragraph, the Police is mistaken to say that it is a civil case. They always use this as a preliminary filter to discourage people from making reports.

The correct position is that the cases they are talking about are non-seizable offences, and what they really mean by "civil case" is that the complainant has to make a Magistrate's Complaint.

The appalling part is even the police can't get it right.

As for the next part, well true, we don't know what happened, so it is up to the bus driver to institute proceedings if he wishes to. If so, then I'd say that jail can't necessarily be excluded the way you say it.

Whether it was the living daylights or just a punch doesn't absolve one from liability - it just affects the seriousness of the crime and/or the sentence. causing hurt can land you in jail.

As for the 2 day MC - well as you said, you weren't there, how do you know how seriously injured the bus driver was?

I think we hav enough of feedback from all. Shall we close and move on?

Yappy & happy

 

[vince123123]

That decision should be made by a moderator. Besides, why is there any need to stifle discussion? If people remain interested to discuss the issue, there is no reason for the thread to be closed.

You are welcomed to move on if you wish, don't have to impose your will on others.

I think we hav enough of feedback from all. Shall we close and move on?

Yappy & happy

 

[cjl]

And the 2 day mc.... oh please it doesnt mean he was so seriously injured that he had to be on mc for 2 days. It was more likely his company ask him to take a rest for 2 days.

As for the 2 day MC - well as you said, you weren't there, how do you know how seriously injured the bus driver was?

MC are given by docs for being "unfit for work/sch"

If it is the bus coy asking the driver to go home and rest, the correct term to be used is "time off" or maybe "on leave", depend on situations.

So, bus coy aint docs. So they cant give MC.

Docs give MC to bus driver. So bus driver is "unfit for work"

Man, I can go on and on.....hahaha

:bsmilie:

 

[xziredmp]

from what i see from threadstarter...

HC student doesnt mean can run away from law... beat someone up ? go face the charges

beat up driver and cry later ??

he deserves 2X punishment.

law is law. did something wrong ? face it.

 

[vince123123]

I think you should go read the article again before you jump in like this.

Centuryegg is speculating/opining on the company time off thing. It was reported that the bus driver was given two days medical leave.

MC are given by docs for being "unfit for work/sch"

If it is the bus coy asking the driver to go home and rest, the correct term to be used is "time off" or maybe "on leave", depend on situations.

So, bus coy aint docs. So they cant give MC.

Docs give MC to bus driver. So bus driver is "unfit for work"

Man, I can go on and on.....hahaha

:bsmilie:

 

[cjl]

I think you should go read the article again before you jump in like this.

Centuryegg is speculating/opining on the company time off thing. It was reported that the bus driver was given two days medical leave.

Thats the idea. Centuryegg is doubting abt the driver having , wat is reported, 2 days of medical leave. So can we consider that as time off from the coy? When did SBSTransit staff become medical docs, authority to give out MCs?

If he has doubts abt wat is reported abt the bus driver, then why have the discussion in the 1st place? He shouldnt be believing wat the papers say in the 1st place, not partially but all together

 

[centuryegg]

Thats the idea. Centuryegg is doubting abt the driver having , wat is reported, 2 days of medical leave. So can we consider that as time off from the coy? When did SBSTransit staff become medical docs, authority to give out MCs?

If he has doubts abt wat is reported abt the bus driver, then why have the discussion in the 1st place? He shouldnt be believing wat the papers say in the 1st place, not partially but all together

Why? because I dont believe anything the new paper say. For your info, the chinese papers report a very different story.

That version is that there was a struggle in which the bus driver and the student were wrestling for the bus pass, in the struggle, the student's hand grazed the bus driver. It was not as the new paper reported a punch. And the student apologize straight away but the bus driver chose to shout about it and make a police report.

So with such conflicting news reports how to believe anything?? I am not even having an dicussion as I feel that those lamers and brainless ones who call for blood are as such. Asking for a 17 year old to go to jail for something that is not even proven.... Yet no one wants to discuss about the serious issues that I have brought up.... abit lame right??

Anyway what to do... the school holidays is here... the kids are out to play in the forums

P.S. Besides getting a MC is not difficult.... Just got try it at the doc. Just say you have stomach ache... cant control your bladder, you will get at least 1 day MC. If he was that serious...... he would have been in a hospital....

 

[Hobbesyeo]

For your info, the chinese papers report a very different story.

It would be interesting if you could post a translated copy of the article, or perhaps a link? I think it would aid the discussion.

 

[Yappy]

That decision should be made by a moderator. Besides, why is there any need to stifle discussion? If people remain interested to discuss the issue, there is no reason for the thread to be closed.

You are welcomed to move on if you wish, don't have to impose your will on others.

U are right let's continue. So where and when do we end?

Yapy & happy

 

[cjl]

Why? because I dont believe anything the new paper say. For your info, the chinese papers report a very different story.

That version is that there was a struggle in which the bus driver and the student were wrestling for the bus pass, in the struggle, the student's hand grazed the bus driver. It was not as the new paper reported a punch. And the student apologize straight away but the bus driver chose to shout about it and make a police report.

So with such conflicting news reports how to believe anything?? I am not even having an dicussion as I feel that those lamers and brainless ones who call for blood are as such. Asking for a 17 year old to go to jail for something that is not even proven.... Yet no one wants to discuss about the serious issues that I have brought up.... abit lame right??

Anyway what to do... the school holidays is here... the kids are out to play in the forums

P.S. Besides getting a MC is not difficult.... Just got try it at the doc. Just say you have stomach ache... cant control your bladder, you will get at least 1 day MC. If he was that serious...... he would have been in a hospital....

Serious issues u brought up? Where?

From the post where u illustrate your 2 bad experiences with bus drivers, I can see the direction u heading. And there isnt a speck of you complaining abt the schoolboy here, where u can doubt the seriousness of the injury, but never place your doubt on the ability of the school boy punching?

Now, are we toking abt being neutral here? U wan pple not to spread untrue views of wat they think of the incident, but yet, your position on the bus driver is based on ur bad experiences. Unless the affected bus driver is one of the bad drivers whom u have an encounter with, there's no right to say he is a bad egg afterall.

Second, you doubting doctors in general, giving MC for no reasons.

一根柱干打翻整艏船？

Lastly, we dun need to see how serious the injury to state whether the school boy is right or wrong. Its common sense, causing injury to one is wrong. The RIGHT punishment should be given to the schoolboy, to truly make him reflect and repent.

 

[vince123123]

We end when people are no longer interested in continuing the discussion and the thread will die as a matter of course; or when a moderator takes the view that the thread should be closed because of reasons articulated on the same.

U are right let's continue. So where and when do we end?

Yapy & happy

 

[Yappy]

We end when people are no longer interested in continuing the discussion and the thread will die as a matter of course; or when a moderator takes the view that the thread should be closed because of reasons articulated on the same.

If you care to go back and read the rest of the comments, they are repeatations.

Anyway I also agreed with you that if there are pple interested in the thread, we should continue!

Yappy & happy

 

[Murcielago]

call me stereotype, but there are 2 HC students in my unit and both are behaving in a way similar to that student in question. somehow i feel HC students ....

anyway back to topic. doesnt matter what sch he';s from. go by the book for him. otherwise it will set precedence that smart students can smoke their way out of trouble and such.

i dont understand why is there such controversy over this. had this student been from a neighbourhood sch/jc, WOULD there be any controversy?

 

[vince123123]

Here's a letter from a reader in ST Forum:

Review practice of retaining ez-link cards

IT IS time SBS Transit and SMRT reviewed their system of retaining students' ez-link cards.

Recently, my son faced such a situation again, but unlike previous cases when there was a warning beep and alert message, there was no beep at all when he tapped his card.

The bus driver immediately retained his card. Luckily, I was with him and demanded that the driver return the card as legally he had no right to retain a student's ez-link card which is also a student identity card.

A check with SBS Transit later revealed that the problem was not that it was a stolen card but merely that the magnetic strip was damaged so the card reader was unable to read the card.

Can SBS Transit explain why we were treated in such a manner as to imply that the card had been stolen? I have the name of the bus driver but it is a change in the system that I would like to see. There is no point taking action against a driver when the fault lies in the practice adopted by the public transport companies.

Furthermore, I cannot understand why bus drivers do not simply inspect the photo on the card to verify whether it is that of the user. If it is, all the driver has to do is tell the user his card is damaged.

I cannot imagine how many students face this predicament every day.

A few months ago, I had to intervene on behalf of a young student in school uniform.

There was no beep or alert message but the card was retained. The poor boy called his father to explain but his father did not believe him, thinking his son had done something wrong.

It is not unusual for parents not to believe the word of a young child against the action of a mature bus driver. The driver returned the boy's card only when I told him I would complain about his behaviour as 'unfair treatment' as he was not able to show me evidence to justify why he retained the card.

I would like to know how the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Transport intend to resolve this issue as the ez-link card also acts as a student identity card.

Telma Gomez (Mdm)


In my view, the bus driver has no legal right to retain anything. Power granted to him by SBS is irrelevant - until such is properly inscribed as laws (which I'm not aware of - perhaps someone who knows can point us in the right direction), the bus driver will be guilty of theft/robbery/conversion if he attempts to retain the card.

 

[cjl]

Here's a letter from a reader in ST Forum:

Review practice of retaining ez-link cards

IT IS time SBS Transit and SMRT reviewed their system of retaining students' ez-link cards.

Recently, my son faced such a situation again, but unlike previous cases when there was a warning beep and alert message, there was no beep at all when he tapped his card.

The bus driver immediately retained his card. Luckily, I was with him and demanded that the driver return the card as legally he had no right to retain a student's ez-link card which is also a student identity card.

A check with SBS Transit later revealed that the problem was not that it was a stolen card but merely that the magnetic strip was damaged so the card reader was unable to read the card.

Can SBS Transit explain why we were treated in such a manner as to imply that the card had been stolen? I have the name of the bus driver but it is a change in the system that I would like to see. There is no point taking action against a driver when the fault lies in the practice adopted by the public transport companies.

Furthermore, I cannot understand why bus drivers do not simply inspect the photo on the card to verify whether it is that of the user. If it is, all the driver has to do is tell the user his card is damaged.

I cannot imagine how many students face this predicament every day.

A few months ago, I had to intervene on behalf of a young student in school uniform.

There was no beep or alert message but the card was retained. The poor boy called his father to explain but his father did not believe him, thinking his son had done something wrong.

It is not unusual for parents not to believe the word of a young child against the action of a mature bus driver. The driver returned the boy's card only when I told him I would complain about his behaviour as 'unfair treatment' as he was not able to show me evidence to justify why he retained the card.

I would like to know how the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Transport intend to resolve this issue as the ez-link card also acts as a student identity card.

Telma Gomez (Mdm)


In my view, the bus driver has no legal right to retain anything. Power granted to him by SBS is irrelevant - until such is properly inscribed as laws (which I'm not aware of - perhaps someone who knows can point us in the right direction), the bus driver will be guilty of theft/robbery/conversion if he attempts to retain the card.

ANother case of pure ranting with no solutions provided. Haiz....NOwadays even the ST Forum has become another STOMP.

I will suggest let the practise continue - with something extra : Get the driver whom confiscate the ezlink card to issue something like a form or receipt to enknowledge his actions and the form should have some instructions to teach the jaded kid/adult on wat to do next (eg, go to some bus interchange or HQ to get the ezlink card back or explain wat hap)

If the ezlink card is a personalised one, perhaps the driver should tell the card holder that the card is damaged AND ask him/her to drop off the bus. AFAIK, some pple like to use the damaged card as an excuse to get a free ride.

Of coz, we never know wats the implication of a damaged card to those bus coys, LTA or related authorities. Someone which we see can be very simple but very complicated to others.

My 2 cents

 

[Caspere]

In my view, the bus driver has no legal right to retain anything. Power granted to him by SBS is irrelevant - until such is properly inscribed as laws (which I'm not aware of - perhaps someone who knows can point us in the right direction), the bus driver will be guilty of theft/robbery/conversion if he attempts to retain the card.

Looks like the lady misunderstood on this point. The ez-link card seems to be issued NOT by the govt for identification purposes; there are already the NRIC & passport, and now maybe the new driving licence. While some oraganization may accept the Photo ez-link card for their purposes, it is not an official nor proper legal identification document. The driver as an employee of the company (if authorized) can retain those cards if the criteria for the retention is clear (this remains a sore point..)

But it does sound very much like ranting...

 

[vince123123]

Actually, whether or not the driver can retain is another question altogether. If there is no legislation empowering them to, they have no right to.

Looks like the lady misunderstood on this point. The ez-link card seems to be issued NOT by the govt for identification purposes; there are already the NRIC & passport, and now maybe the new driving licence. While some oraganization may accept the Photo ez-link card for their purposes, it is not an official nor proper legal identification document. The driver as an employee of the company (if authorized) can retain those cards if the criteria for the retention is clear (this remains a sore point..)

But it does sound very much like ranting...

Check out Ms Tammy Tan's reply today:

Why some ez-link cards may be retained

WE REFER to the letter, 'Review practice of retaining ez-link cards' (ST, May 23), by Mdm Telma Gomez. When a concession ez-link card is tapped against the bus card reader, commuters will hear two beeps and see a green light if the card has been read successfully.

However, if no beep tone is heard or a red light and a series of five beeps are produced by the card reader, this indicates a problem with the card, and that the transaction could not be conducted successfully.

The bus operator reserves the right to retain the card for investigation and verification.

This is for the protection of ez-link card users in general, as the card may have been
tampered with, misused, replaced or refunded.

Concurrently, a message will be shown on the bus captain's fare console to guide him on what he should do.

Bus captains are authorised to check, verify and, if necessary, retain cards and passes for investigation.

This includes cards that have been reported lost or stolen or have expired, as well as those that are misused by persons who are not entitled to concessionary travel.

The use of ez-link cards is governed by regulations and published conditions, as indicated on the back of the card. For details, commuters may visit www.transitlink.com.sg

Bus captains are trained on the proper procedures when retaining cards. If a card is retained for investigation, they would issue a retention slip to the cardholder.

After investigation by the bus operator, the card will be sent to TransitLink for cardholders' collection.

Cardholders may call the TransitLink Hotline 1800-2255-663 after five working days to
check on the status of their card.

We thank the writer for her feedback.

Kathryn Lau (Ms)
Assistant Corporate Communications Manager
Transit Link Pte Ltd

Tammy Tan (Ms)
Director
Corporate Communications
SBS Transit

 

[cjl]

Actually, whether or not the driver can retain is another question altogether. If there is no legislation empowering them to, they have no right to.




Check out Ms Tammy Tan's reply today:


While the phrase "The use of ez-link cards is governed by regulations and published conditions, as indicated on the back of the card. For details, commuters may visit www.transitlink.com.sg" sounds really officious, a review of the website shows that it is just a "term and condition", issued by Transitlink, on the card.

Hence, if I choose not to give it up to the bus driver, all Transitlink can do is to sue me for breach of contract, nothing further.

Sounds nice on paper, but read further into it. That's what the public relations department is paid to do - make it sound nice and saying what they want the public to think, without actually saying it.

"This is for the protection of ez-link card users in general, as the card may have been
tampered with, misused, replaced or refunded" - really? or also (hidden) protection of bottom line profits?

How come u miss out this :

" This includes cards that have been reported lost or stolen or have expired, as well as those that are misused by persons who are not entitled to concessionary travel. "

On the other hand, it seems the related coys has already taken measures similar to wat I suggested either, abt giving out retention slips.

I accept the bus drivers' actions for retaining ezlink cards that are reported lost or stolen. But expired? Ezlink cards has an expiry date? Even those student cards will be convert to ordinary ones once they left school....
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