Suggestion of Non-Profitable MO

[Xiao_shin]

if you would notice, the MO long long time ago is mostly one time event, the CSer conducting MO state very clear if he able to get how many order, and the final cost is how much.

He does not keep stock, and the item he order is for own consume.

the main idea is everyone enjoy saving, not making profit from it.

Your long long time ago is how long?

Last time, when MO starter are not charged a fee yet, oracle and skyestang to name a few are already doing MO. I wouldn't classified those as one time event.

For the record, I am all for non-profit MO. Everyone save a bit.. Why not?

 

[catchlights]

Your long long time ago is how long?

Last time, when MO starter are not charged a fee yet, oracle and skyestang to name a few are already doing MO. I wouldn't classified those as one time event.

For the record, I am all for non-profit MO. Everyone save a bit.. Why not?

that was quite some time ago, many are none regular organizers, will do MO upon request or adhoc basis.
I also recall some issues regarding the credibility about the MO organizers at the time.

 

[Xiao_shin]

that was quite some time ago, many are none regular organizers, will do MO upon request or adhoc basis.
I also recall some issues regarding the credibility about the MO organizers at the time.

Only credibility issue I can recall is the CF card. Where they got some fake ones thru the MO. A big hoohaa then. One decide to refund while one can't refund.

 

[vince123123]

The CF Card case is actually not as "long ago" as catchlights is referring to. The long ago precedes even that.

 

[vince123123]

My apologies, it may not have been that "long ago"

 

[jeanie]

catch,
let's take the example of savings $22.

for the trouble of consolidating orders, the risks of people 'flying aeroplanes', the waiting/lead time, the warranty issues(if any)...

do you think it's still worth it?

:dunno:

anyway, i'm off topic.the issue here is not what i make my point about.
apologies.

 

[teebs]

The reason why there are paid advertisers is because the current rule is that ALL MO organisers need to be paid subscribers. In the past, ALL MO organisers did not need to be paid subscribers.

We are now discussing a potential exception to the requirement of being a paid subscriber for non-Profit MOs, as the mods have indicated that they have made an execption for some non-Profit MOs already.

Finally, in my experience conducting MOs back in 2005 here, other than consolidated shipping, you can also get bulk discounts from the manufacturers. Its all about how good your negotiation skill is.

With the current rule that all MO organisers need to be paid subscribers means that all the MOs currently are FOR PROFIT MOs.

If there are going to be NOT FOR PROFIT MOs then I presume that these MO organisers shouldn't have to pay any fee to organise such MOs.

Going back to the issue of For Profit vs Not For Profit MOs, the issue as I see it is that most people will want the more popular items. Not for Profit MO organisers will most of the time only organise such MOs for items that they require and these will probably be the items that are popular. This is especially so for photography items since the number of people using not popular items will be very small.

The issue with Not for Profit MOs is that the organisers themselves derive no benefit other than lower unit prices and lower shipping costs. Thus nobody will even want to conduct a Not for Profit MO for any product that he does not require given that he is only going to give himself a whole load of trouble for nothing.

As I see it, CS will definately have to provide protection for their paid advertisers but if all popular items are banned for Not for Profit MOs, then frankly the benefit to CSers in general will be very limited.

 

[teebs]

catch,
let's take the example of savings $22.

for the trouble of consolidating orders, the risks of people 'flying aeroplanes', the waiting/lead time, the warranty issues(if any)...

do you think it's still worth it?

:dunno:

anyway, i'm off topic.the issue here is not what i make my point about.
apologies.

This issue actually depends on the Not for Profit MO Organiser. If he feels that it is worth it, then he will go ahead and do it. If he feels that it is not worth it, then he won't conduct the MO, period.

The thing about Not For Profit MOs in general, is that they are normally made for items that are popular so even if people fly kite, the organiser will be able to sell of the remaining items in a matter of days or a week or two at the most. This is the case if the organiser decides not to collect an upfront deposit

But generally speaking, before the MO organiser orders the items, you will have to pay the entire estimated cost of the item upfront. Any refunds/additional payments will be made upon collection of the item. Thus, the issue of people flying kite will generally not apply in this case.

 

[joshL]

Hmm.. I run a car forum myself and I have no shortage of people trying to conduct MOs for profit purposes.

For profit MO, the person must be a supplier of the products he is trying to do MO.
He must at least own a business and shopfront. This is to prevent "fly-by-night" merchants
from fleeing after selling to the forummers inferior products and not claiming responsibility.
This would also make the forum looks good, reliable and well maintained.
Of course, we would also make the merchant pay for membership too.

For Non-Profit MO, the person conducting the MO must meet a moderator and show "evidence" of quotation.
Usually, it should be "once you hit Tier 1 you get certain discount, hit Tier 2, you'll get higher discount, etc."
The moderator will also need to verify that the source is reliable, etc.
Once verified, the MO organiser will post and the Moderator will give support.
Tedious process? Yes.. but hey, it's for the good of everyone!

Most importantly, the forummers must benefit in terms of lower pricing and proper aftersales service.
Just sharing a little..

 

[catchlights]

catch,
let's take the example of savings $22.

for the trouble of consolidating orders, the risks of people 'flying aeroplanes', the waiting/lead time, the warranty issues(if any)...

do you think it's still worth it?

:dunno:

anyway, i'm off topic.the issue here is not what i make my point about.
apologies.

I understand what you trying to say, is conducting MO without makeing profit is it really justify?

let me clarify myself first, I have no intention of starting any MO, however, I do benefit from taking part in some MO here.

now all MO is so profit driven, all are for high demanding, high popularty photograhpic items.

just for an example, if I came across some items, may not be available in Sg, some are so unpopular, if I able to just gather another few orders for this item, I could save some money on shipment. For the current policy, it is not clear that will this belong to non profitable MO, so I unable to use CS as a vehicle to conduct this MO. and nobody will know there is someone want to start a MO for this item. in the end I have to mail order this thing myself, another CSer have to mail order same thing himself.

 

[soeypixels]

maybe $22 is a little

few hundreds bucks is more worth it
especially buying from US site and sharing of shipping

anyway i think this is a good suggession
other forum have 2 categories for MO

PMO - personal MO
CMO - commercial MO

is all about transparency

 

[Darren]

Guys (and gals),

Just a note that we are debating the feasibility of "Personal MO"/Spree or whatever it is to be called and we appreciate the open discussion here.

Edit: Note also that we have actually moved away from the term MO for those commercial advertisers and are referring to them as Mass Sales now.

Thanks!

 

[teebs]

maybe $22 is a little

few hundreds bucks is more worth it
especially buying from US site and sharing of shipping

anyway i think this is a good suggession
other forum have 2 categories for MO

PMO - personal MO
CMO - commercial MO

is all about transparency

I have conducted Not for profit sprees for items that have savings of $10 over the purchase price in Singapore to items that have savings of over $100 compared to what you pay for in Singapore.

At the end of the day savings of $10 for a product that costs $20 in Singapore amounts to a 50% savings.

Also you do have to consider whether everyone is willing to bear the 7% GST that is payable for all products imported in Singapore that has CIF value of SGD 400 and above.

 

[azul123]

Only credibility issue I can recall is the CF card. Where they got some fake ones thru the MO. A big hoohaa then. One decide to refund while one can't refund.

I think we all forget too soon.

My take on this.. a registered organiser is better than someone later 'Fly Aeroplane', " CSer Meng is one such person that has flown aeroplane. :bsmilie:

btw, how does the term 'Fly Aeroplane' come about? I'm thinking it means someone who pockets the money and run off. :dunno:

../azul123

 

[catchlights]

Guys (and gals),

Just a note that we are debating the feasibility of "Personal MO"/Spree or whatever it is to be called and we appreciate the open discussion here.

Edit: Note also that we have actually moved away from the term MO for those commercial advertisers and are referring to them as Mass Sales now.

Thanks!

good to hear that, thanks

 

[catchlights]

I think we all forget too soon.

My take on this.. a registered organiser is better than someone later 'Fly Aeroplane', " CSer Meng is one such person that has flown aeroplane. :bsmilie:

btw, how does the term 'Fly Aeroplane' come about? I'm thinking it means someone who pockets the money and run off. :dunno:

../azul123

just did search, notice you are also one of the victims...

I think when there is money involve, it is right to state the real name and contact number openly, whether is paid subscription organiser or subscription free organiser.

however, just like any transactions held in CS, it should be Caveat Emptor - Let the Buyer Beware.

 

[azul123]

just did search, notice you are also one of the victims...

I think when there is money involve, it is right to state the real name and contact number openly, whether is paid subscription organiser or subscription free organiser.

however, just like any transactions held in CS, it should be Caveat Emptor - Let the Buyer Beware.

Hi Ben,
Yup, that is why I remembered... :bsmilie: it is too small an amount, so no big deal. Meng's contact was available and yet this could happen, imagine if it was for larger amount.

../azul123

 

[catchlights]

Hi Ben,
Yup, that is why I remembered... :bsmilie: it is too small an amount, so no big deal. Meng's contact was available and yet this could happen, imagine if it was for larger amount.

../azul123

well, just hand the case over to police can liao, altho is $12 only .... 10 persons is $120 liao, 20 persons is $240...........

but seem nobody is doing anything right?

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

In any transactions, there will be good sheeps and blah blah black sheeps...

Anyway, lets keep the worth it or not aside, since some may think 50 bucks savings is nothing compared to the petrol cost incurred to meetup. So lets not go into that.

Like any MOs, you see something you are interested in, you see the price, worth it or not, is up to each individual.

Our discussion here is, how to make a transparent and non-profit MO. or a 'negligible' profit MO, but should be transparent enough to show.

Difference to note between MS & MO is...

MS, there is probably stock in hand, seller need not tell us their cost and markups.
Non Profit MO, the person is not a seller, hence, he should not profit from the event, or any profits should not be a markup on the cost of the items, mostly the profits should be either from transportation or exchange rates difference. Transparency is the key...

Anyway, some guides...

MO items should not be what is on sale by MS. To prevent conflict of interest.
MO items should not have multiple people doing, for eg, quantum batt MO done by darren, then another quantum batt MO done by me at the same time.
After completion of MO, TS cannot start another MO of the same item to prevent MS opportunity. Since the items is needed for self, why is there a need to do a 2nd MO after completion of the 1st one?
MO should not all of a sudden become MS if the item is found to be of high demand and profitability. ** i know i sure get shoot for this... **

all MO should have a min/max order quantity, cut off dates as well.

i go think more then update.

 

[teebs]

In any transactions, there will be good sheeps and blah blah black sheeps...

Anyway, lets keep the worth it or not aside, since some may think 50 bucks savings is nothing compared to the petrol cost incurred to meetup. So lets not go into that.

Like any MOs, you see something you are interested in, you see the price, worth it or not, is up to each individual.

Our discussion here is, how to make a transparent and non-profit MO. or a 'negligible' profit MO, but should be transparent enough to show.

Difference to note between MS & MO is...

MS, there is probably stock in hand, seller need not tell us their cost and markups.
Non Profit MO, the person is not a seller, hence, he should not profit from the event, or any profits should not be a markup on the cost of the items, mostly the profits should be either from transportation or exchange rates difference. Transparency is the key...

Anyway, some guides...

MO items should not be what is on sale by MS. To prevent conflict of interest.
MO items should not have multiple people doing, for eg, quantum batt MO done by darren, then another quantum batt MO done by me at the same time.
After completion of MO, TS cannot start another MO of the same item to prevent MS opportunity. Since the items is needed for self, why is there a need to do a 2nd MO after completion of the 1st one?
MO should not all of a sudden become MS if the item is found to be of high demand and profitability. ** i know i sure get shoot for this... **

all MO should have a min/max order quantity, cut off dates as well.

i go think more then update.

I think for all MO (Non Profit) organisers, they should submit a copy of their NRIC (front and back) & contact number (HP) to the Mods or admin for vetting. Only after vetting will they be registered as MO organisers.

As for transparency, once MO organiser decides to do a MO or spree for an item, he should indicate the overseas supplier he is getting the item from (e.g. amazon.com), price listed on the website (e.g. USD xx), estimated currency conversion rate (normally interbank rate +2%) & estimated shipping cost. For low cost items, he should indicate how many orders or how much orders will be accepted before MO/Spree is closed. For high cost items, he should indicate whether GST will be payable.

As for deposits, usually full deposit is required. This is to protect the spree organiser in case participants in the spree decide to pull out after the order is processed.