Suggestion: Code of Conduct for Lingerine and Nude Organised Shoots

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Why, because of the supply and demand of the moderators, somehow this place has turned into a miniature geylang - full of underage girls and nudity in sexually suggestive poses! Why, am i not surprised that you treat me not seriously, because to you, I am just another one of these girls to be exploited upon.

Do you know that your line is defamatory to me, my fellow moderators, & the administrators?

Are you calling us pimps?

Being a minor does not give you the benefit of passing off false accusations and get away with it. I demand an apology for your TNP post and this remark. This has gone too far.

Haha, isn't it happening right before your very eyes?

If you think you are a prophet, yes, but otherwise, you are giving a false account in the TNP report. Please provide accurate facts before giving your accounts instead of speculating a result that you had planned for a sensational news.

 

[designerwhere]

This circus has gone on far enough.

Point 1: Clubsnap being on a public platform like the internet has a social responsibility to the masses. Profit or non-profit, there is a need to be accountable for the kind of activties happening here. I understand there is a certain trend here for underaged students to offer their modeling services to the photographers here but let's face it. This girls are minors in the eyes of the law. Whatever agreement that you have entered into with them is not legal binding and the importance of the article is to prevent them from being exploited. I know people are gonna talk about demand and supply but some of these girls do not know better. Thus there was a need to EDUCATE them.

Point 2: The kind of comments that I have seen here have been nothing short of personal attacks on Averal. The moderaters should stem out these assaults and not instigate it themselves. Alot of the posts are based on asumptions and without proof. Instead of finding ways to help solve the problem, everyone is busy pointing fingers. Does anything get done with all the name calling? I am surprised that some even go to the point as to dig up whatever dirt they can find on her to discredit her? Does that make your views more trustworthy? Does it make your arguments more reliable? Some even go to the extend of name calling to lure her out. This is not some primary school game whereby you pull a girl's hair to get her attention.

Point 3: The thread name says: Suggestion! Nobody is trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. Is this done by force? Is this a do it or the government is going to close down the forum kind of situation? No!

Point 4: What Averal did was out of good will and her beliefs that underaged models should be protected. It is a disturbing trend that non here can deny exists. You can try to sweep everything under the carpet but are we ostriches that can only bury our heads in the sand when danger comes knocking?

Point 5: This might not be common practice in Clubsnap or Singapore for that matter but do get the model to sit down and draft out a contract of sorts( Model Release Form ) before any shoot. State clearly the use of the photos ( be it personal or commerical ) and sign it. For those underaged, get their guardians to sign on their behalf. Allowing a third party to be present , be it a neutral person or the model's friends or family helps.

Point 6: The article written was not meant to target anyone in particular. There will be black sheeps in whatever industry you go to. So don't take it personally.

 

[scandal599]

Why, because of the supply and demand theory of the moderators (or rather, their "I don't ****ing care what happens to these girls" attitude), somehow this place has turned into a miniature geylang - full of underage girls and nudity in sexually suggestive poses! Why, am i not surprised that you treat me not seriously, because to you, I am just another one of these girls to be exploited upon.



Zero.

I am here because I CARE about the girls.

How many of you do actually care?

I would like to know.

and i would like to see the community change for the better.

Averral, what have you said till now has been nothing short of blatant disrespect to both the modelling and photography community here not only in CS but pretty much the rest of Singapore itself. In so far as what good your intentions maybe, by labeling virtually everyone here with hedonistic tendencies towards girls has taken it one step to far and has crossed the line in terms of being an attack on the integrity of every forum member here. I remember that you had told off an organiser of one nude shoot as what he was doing was akin as bringing the shooters to Geylang and shoot prostitutes and we might just as well be doing that. In this context, though it may out of point a little, are you telling me that prostitutes should not be treated with respect??

Let us get some facts right first. While I credit you for your intentions in highlighting the pitfalls of the industry, I question you on the right you have to debase and decry the shooters in this forum. As far as that is concerned, with whatever high road that you are taking, to me it is nothing more than just fluff. What makes you think we do not care about the girls in photoshoots?? And what makes you think that in this regard you actually care for the girls?? Based on the advise you have given?? Just how many years of modelling have you done???

 

[night86mare]

This circus has gone on far enough.

Point 6: The article written was not meant to target anyone in particular. There will be black sheeps in whatever industry you go to. So don't take it personally.

if averral wishes to give any of your points some credibility

she would have been more mature and not resorted to biting or snapping back

she should have, anyways. do you not agree?

 

[designerwhere]

[Mod mode off]

Averral, i've been thinking, why are you setting so many rules and regulations on behalf of 'all the models', seriously, on what grounds are you to implement the rules and tell everyone what to do & what not to do.

We're all open to discussions, but we definitely do not like being told to do things by force, the way you are suggesting is simply by force.

The world doesn't revolve around you, you have to remember that. If you are trying to be famous, yes, you have done that... if you want to make history, probably so... if you want to make everyone conform to your rules, no... and definitely no way.

Saw somewhere before, someone said, newspaper offer classified ads section, does the newspaper have the liability & social responsibility to monitor every ads that is posted there? or even any advertisements that is in the papers? So if anything goes wrong, do we go to the papers for misrepresentation or should we actually go to the advertiser? So if the advertisement says that there is a free consultation for 1st 10 customers, should the press ensure that there is confirmed 10 free consultation? Or if they say there is 100 goodies bags giveaway, the press must send a representative there to check all 100 goodies bags?

Perhaps you are too young and ignorant to view the bigger picture, but don't let it get into your head that everyone owes you a duty of care.

There are at least 3 cases of defamation in this post alone. Putting aside moderater mode? A moderater is supposed to be impartial. Your actions alone are affecting normal members.

 

[TheQuestion]

if averral wishes to give any of your points some credibility

she would have been more mature and not resorted to biting or snapping back

she should have, anyways. do you not agree?

you and i may have our disagreements but i wholeheartedly agree with what you have said here.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Why, because of the supply and demand theory of the moderators (or rather, their "I don't ****ing care what happens to these girls" attitude), somehow this place has turned into a miniature geylang - full of underage girls and nudity in sexually suggestive poses! Why, am i not surprised that you treat me not seriously, because to you, I am just another one of these girls to be exploited upon.



Zero.

I am here because I CARE about the girls.

How many of you do actually care?

I would like to know.

and i would like to see the community change for the better.

i think u hit the wrong targets here, mods do not have any bearing on the supply & demand of models.

even if you do care, your methods will not bring about the desired results, which you say, for the better. it's backfiring in your face, & you may be far from helping the situation.

i am not sure about the "full of underaged girls" part of your statement.

 

[night86mare]

There are at least 3 cases of defamation in this post alone. Putting aside moderater mode? A moderater is supposed to be impartial. Your actions alone are affecting normal members.

you are not being mature either.

all this only serves to put this issue into a worse and worse light on yours (and averal's) side.

 

[designerwhere]

if averral wishes to give any of your points some credibility

she would have been more mature and not resorted to biting or snapping back

she should have, anyways. do you not agree?

Well, the multiple cases of personal attacks on her looks and integrity is well documented in the other threads.

 

[scandal599]

This circus has gone on far enough.

Point 1: Clubsnap being on a public platform like the internet has a social responsibility to the masses. Profit or non-profit, there is a need to be accountable for the kind of activties happening here. I understand there is a certain trend here for underaged students to offer their modeling services to the photographers here but let's face it. This girls are minors in the eyes of the law. Whatever agreement that you have entered into with them is not legal binding and the importance of the article is to prevent them from being exploited. I know people are gonna talk about demand and supply but some of these girls do not know better. Thus there was a need to EDUCATE them.

Point 2: The kind of comments that I have seen here have been nothing short of personal attacks on Averal. The moderaters should stem out these assaults and not instigate it themselves. Alot of the posts are based on asumptions and without proof. Instead of finding ways to help solve the problem, everyone is busy pointing fingers. Does anything get done with all the name calling? I am surprised that some even go to the point as to dig up whatever dirt they can find on her to discredit her? Does that make your views more trustworthy? Does it make your arguments more reliable? Some even go to the extend of name calling to lure her out. This is not some primary school game whereby you pull a girl's hair to get her attention.

Point 3: The thread name says: Suggestion! Nobody is trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. Is this done by force? Is this a do it or the government is going to close down the forum kind of situation? No!

Point 4: What Averal did was out of good will and her beliefs that underaged models should be protected. It is a disturbing trend that non here can deny exists. You can try to sweep everything under the carpet but are we ostriches that can only bury our heads in the sand when danger comes knocking?

Point 5: This might not be common practice in Clubsnap or Singapore for that matter but do get the model to sit down and draft out a contract of sorts( Model Release Form ) before any shoot. State clearly the use of the photos ( be it personal or commerical ) and sign it. For those underaged, get their guardians to sign on their behalf. Allowing a third party to be present , be it a neutral person or the model's friends or family helps.

Point 6: The article written was not meant to target anyone in particular. There will be black sheeps in whatever industry you go to. So don't take it personally.

I agree that this is a farce and it should not have come to this stage. But going by the comments that were made from the start, it has come to a point that it is going over the edge in terms of what she has mentioned. While I credit her intentions, I will not give her the credit insinuating that we are just people trying ogle at girls and as it is downgrade the art of photography as a whole.

 

[night86mare]

Well, the multiple cases of personal attacks on her looks and integrity is well documented in the other threads.

so this is maturity

if someone takes out my eye, i make sure i punch him in the balls just to get even

never mind that it will continue we're both wriggling masses of pulp.

in short: grow up. the buck has to stop somewhere, the sooner you guys decide to do it, and attempt to come to a realistic, cordial discussion while ignoring the offensive attacks.. the sooner a positive resolution might come out.

before you continue with this fiasco of pointing the blame here or there - learn quickly that people are never mature on the net, and the only one you can trust to be mature is yourself. if not for anything, be mature, because it makes you a better person. you already have people helping you out by pointing out that the personal attacks are unwarranted and disagreeable. i fully denounce these personal attacks because it only serves to detract from the issue.

similarly, so does responding to these attacks.

if you are serious about the issue, you will keep the eye on the ball. instead of resorting to flame battles and name-calling or passing judgement on people who engage in these.

 

[Rangefinder_fan]

Dont be silly.
Regarding point 2, she stated certain things in the press which got a few people curious and thus started poking about. Specifically, her mention that she had gotten flamed for pointing out this issue of underaged girls yada yada. Unless those threads where taken out, I for one could not find them. Which calls into question the things that she says.

Point 3, of course its not going to be done by force, because the suggestion will_not_work.

This circus has gone on far enough.

Point 1: Clubsnap being on a public platform like the internet has a social responsibility to the masses. Profit or non-profit, there is a need to be accountable for the kind of activties happening here. I understand there is a certain trend here for underaged students to offer their modeling services to the photographers here but let's face it. This girls are minors in the eyes of the law. Whatever agreement that you have entered into with them is not legal binding and the importance of the article is to prevent them from being exploited. I know people are gonna talk about demand and supply but some of these girls do not know better. Thus there was a need to EDUCATE them.

Point 2: The kind of comments that I have seen here have been nothing short of personal attacks on Averal. The moderaters should stem out these assaults and not instigate it themselves. Alot of the posts are based on asumptions and without proof. Instead of finding ways to help solve the problem, everyone is busy pointing fingers. Does anything get done with all the name calling? I am surprised that some even go to the point as to dig up whatever dirt they can find on her to discredit her? Does that make your views more trustworthy? Does it make your arguments more reliable? Some even go to the extend of name calling to lure her out. This is not some primary school game whereby you pull a girl's hair to get her attention.

Point 3: The thread name says: Suggestion! Nobody is trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. Is this done by force? Is this a do it or the government is going to close down the forum kind of situation? No!

Point 4: What Averal did was out of good will and her beliefs that underaged models should be protected. It is a disturbing trend that non here can deny exists. You can try to sweep everything under the carpet but are we ostriches that can only bury our heads in the sand when danger comes knocking?

Point 5: This might not be common practice in Clubsnap or Singapore for that matter but do get the model to sit down and draft out a contract of sorts( Model Release Form ) before any shoot. State clearly the use of the photos ( be it personal or commerical ) and sign it. For those underaged, get their guardians to sign on their behalf. Allowing a third party to be present , be it a neutral person or the model's friends or family helps.

Point 6: The article written was not meant to target anyone in particular. There will be black sheeps in whatever industry you go to. So don't take it personally.

 

[designerwhere]

so this is maturity

if someone takes out my eye, i make sure i punch him in the balls just to get even

never mind that it will continue we're both wriggling masses of pulp.

in short: grow up. the buck has to stop somewhere, the sooner you guys decide to do it, and attempt to come to a realistic, cordial discussion while ignoring the offensive attacks.. the sooner a positive resolution might come out.

before you continue with this fiasco of pointing the blame here or there - learn quickly that people are never mature on the net, and the only one you can trust to be mature is yourself. if not for anything, be mature, because it makes you a better person. you already have people helping you out by pointing out that the personal attacks are unwarranted and disagreeable. i fully denounce these personal attacks because it only serves to detract from the issue.

similarly, so does responding to these attacks.

if you are serious about the issue, you will keep the eye on the ball. instead of resorting to flame battles and name-calling or passing judgement on people who engage in these.

If you have not noticed, we have not responded to 21 pages of the XMM thread n 4 pages of Averal thread. Thanks for your valueable feedback and have a nice day.

 

[night86mare]

If you have not noticed, we have not responded to 21 pages of the XMM thread n 4 pages of Averal thread. Thanks for your valueable feedback and have a nice day.

so

WHY START NOW?

this is like saying that it is alright to not run in the face of the enemy for 2 hours, but when they arrive you abandon the fort.

MAKES NO DIFFERENCE kthxbai

 

[scandal599]

Well, the multiple cases of personal attacks on her looks and integrity is well documented in the other threads.

okay...let us take into consideration that there were attacks on her looks. Were they tongue in cheek? As prior to this, a lot of us cannot put a face to the name. As for attacks on integrity, I concede that some maybe but to what extent?? Defamatory? Which thread? By definition: (defamation)is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image, in which case, has that not been done by the TNP fiasco, of which she granted the interview? In so doing, the entire community gets slammed as well?? I may have said some things, but I will not make an attack on the integrity of the person, unless the person has done so in the first place, which, if my memory serves me well has already been carried out even way before this fiasco. The way I see it, in spite of what she is trying to do, she has done nothing by far to clarify and try to push for change other than debase forum members here.

Honestly,if she has a point to prove. Let her take up my suggestion. If she thinks she can come up with a viable code of conduct to conduct these shoots, then please by all means: prove it.

 

[AverRal]

I value your feedback, we all have opinons and lets keep it as that.

Please do not OT, lets stick to the topic and give constructive feedback.

 

[CYRN]

There are at least 3 cases of defamation in this post alone. Putting aside moderater mode? A moderater is supposed to be impartial. Your actions alone are affecting normal members.

Umm... Would you mind specifying the 3 cases. I dun see it leh.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Honestly,if she has a point to prove. Let her take up my suggestion. If she thinks she can come up with a viable code of conduct to conduct these shoots, then please by all means: prove it.

if she is in the position to execute i dun think she'll even need to suggest. & not everybody with good set of ideas get to impliment them. :sweat:

 

[CYRN]

if she is in the position to execute i dun think she'll even need to suggest. & not everybody with good set of ideas get to impliment them. :sweat:

Yeah, but sometimes talk is cheap. I also can suggest to make her the mod of the services sub forum and let her try to disallow those whom did not follow her suggested guidelines. Then she will know first hand the near impossibility of her suggestion. I run a board before and I understand.

 

[moos blues]

I value your feedback, we all have opinons and lets keep it as that.

Please do not OT, lets stick to the topic and give constructive feedback.

huh? :dunno: