Strobe light for S70

[picorat]

Hi guys,

i have a canon s70, and the canon housing. i'm kindda toying around the idea with getting a strobe light so that i can introduce some reds and get some 1/2 decent shots.

Few questions though...

1) will it help in taking less shaky shots, since i do have more light? or is the difference in shutter speed not significant enough?

2) which strobe light should i get? any recommendations/things to look out for?

thanks!

posted 2 photos as an examples of my current setup.

 

[lovells19]

eh S70 has M mode rite?

normally a external flash is not detected by the camera, so if it doesn't know it'll get help from an external source, it will automatically slow it shutter down to get enf light. so.. it'll be great to have manual

but then u are shooting fishes, which can be quite tricky even with manual

im using the INON D2000s which has a sTTL, it kinda mimic the camera internal flash, but i tell u.. its damn accurate lah. or u can choose the Manual mode and select the power.

or you can try ikelite strobes but then its only restricted to manual control, there's a ttl sensor but i find its not very accurate.

 

[picorat]

hi,

i do must state that i'm a total noob to u/water photography! and as much as i tried to read off the web for pointers and tips, it's really difficult to understand what they're talking about. i'm not even sure how an u/w strobe light syncs/mounts onto a camera.

ya the s70 does have a manual mode. but i thought that i might use the aperture priority mode at f2.8, and set the EV to -2. Hopefully this will compensate for the additional brightness for the strobe.

 

[lovells19]

oh ok

our strobes mostly are optically triggered by the internal flash of the camera,

unless the camera has a hotshoe and the housing of the camera supports the Hotshoe, which allows more accurate TTL

we can control the power of the strobe on the strobe itself or on a manual controller attached to the strobe, then it is trigger when the internal strobe of the camera is fired, as for settings i shoot Manual, having full control is more fun although quite troublesome have to keep adjusting.

 

[diediealsomustdive]

Welcome to the club... Fun but can be frustrating at times. First of all I declare that I am still learning with my UW craft, although on land I an be considered old-hand, but not having dived too frequently I am still quite green in the underwater sense.

I dived in the past year with S60 and currently S70 (don't ask). And have recently purchased a manual Sunpak G-flash. Both blessing and curse.

Someone here (Kthan?) mentioned before - shot within the limits of your equipment. The on-board flash when used judiciously, i.e. near subjects, can give quite decent photos.

Lionfish, Maluku 05, S60 on-board flash

Once you are a little further from your subject, with on-board and small flashes, the strobe may become completely useless. Some say that you need big (BIG!) strobe and wide (WIDE!) lens.

Shutter speed and aperture would relate to the brightness of the scene. You can set the shutter speed and aperture such that ambient does not play a part, and only the strobe's lighting is seen, or a mix of both. This is an art.

Anemone Crab, Maluku 05, night dive S60 on-board flash aided by dive torch by my guide

My strategy of using the S60 was:
(i) shoot in program, since I had not much light to play with.
(ii) forced flash when needed, but depending on distance, might dial in a -0.5EV.
(iii) also dial in a -0.5EV to -1EV for ambient light
(iv) shot in raw, to get more control over PP (post processing)

More photos to encourage you to shoot without adding a strobe (I am assuming you do not understand enough about photography and light and need to understand more before putting precious dollars out - if I am wrong please tell me).

Frogfish, Manado 05, S60 onboard flash

Nudibranch, Manado 05, S60 onboard flash

So I got my Sunpak. Boy was it a pain to use. Completely manual. Try that during night dive - you need 3 hands, one to hold camera, one to hold dive torch, the third to adjust the power output. And being completedly manual means I need to understand lighting very well, and be able to adjust the output judiciously. So far, the common outcomes for close shots are first shot, out, either too dark or too bright, second shot usually ok. Medium distance shot, back to the drawing board. No hint for you, pal.

A shot to illustrate my point.

Black-spotted Puffer, Manado 06, S70, Raw, Manual 1/60 f8 Sunpak GN setting unrecorded

If you wish to go and grab a strobe anyway, stay away from completely manual ones. I know, I have 27 years of photography behind me, a sound understanding of light, GN, distance, etc, and I am frustrated when shooting with manual strobes. Mind you I started with manual flash guns in the 70s, with cameras that don't need batteries to work. Sunny f16 was the first rule I learned.

Or put it another way, Lovell's recommendation on the Inon flash is very sound. I am considering it, just that Home Affairs and Finance Ministry (read wife) not giving approval. And I also want to work on my fundamentals and understand how to work the flash I have within its limitations before splurging out more cash. That way I appreciate every little feature I get, and understand before I move to the next step.

Once you get around this then perhaps some of us can show you how to hook up the flash to the camera. Easy.

Just my 2 cents. And sorry for the rather long post.

Oh btw, C&C welcome (not meant to hijack you thread).

 

[lovells19]

wahh such a detailed explaination with photos!! impressed!!!

if u set the settings manually, u just need to agar the distance and play with the flash power and placing which makes it much easier , especially night dive, where u only need 1 setting, unless u bump into a sleeping manta ray!!! haha u'll wish u have another 3 strobes

If you do want to invest in a strobe, I suggest u to get a higher range one, it saves you the trouble from upgrading in future, and you can carry them from camera to camera so its quite a long term investment, if u got sick, i can buy from u 2nd hand cheap of cos kekekeke :sweatsm:

 

[diediealsomustdive]

wahh such a detailed explaination with photos!! impressed!!!

Thank you thank you.

if u set the settings manually, u just need to agar the distance and play with the flash power and placing which makes it much easier , especially night dive, where u only need 1 setting, unless u bump into a sleeping manta ray!!! haha u'll wish u have another 3 strobes

This agak-ration not very easy to do, done that and very frustrating.

If you do want to invest in a strobe, I suggest u to get a higher range one, it saves you the trouble from upgrading in future, and you can carry them from camera to camera so its quite a long term investment, if u got sick, i can buy from u 2nd hand cheap of cos kekekeke :sweatsm:

Now you tell me. Hey, weren't you the one who hook me up with the Sunpak? What to do with you? Angry? How come you never warn me earlier? Now 1 me to buy bigger strobe and wish me sick so I sell u the strobe? Wah liao....

Anyway, kidding only lah.

 

[lovells19]

Now you tell me. Hey, weren't you the one who hook me up with the Sunpak? What to do with you? Angry? How come you never warn me earlier? Now 1 me to buy bigger strobe and wish me sick so I sell u the strobe? Wah liao....

Anyway, kidding only lah.

its a good strobe mah!

big = better hahaha
get a Ikelite DS400!!! best built in aiming light, and lead weights, and can act as a hammer!

 

[diediealsomustdive]

its a good strobe mah!

big = better hahaha
get a Ikelite DS400!!! best built in aiming light, and lead weights, and can act as a hammer!

Hey I have many items in my bag too, although no more diaper and milk powder.

How about 6 wet suits, 6 pairs of fins, 2 cameras, 3 sets of regulators and BCDs....

My then-little-girl now dive buddy. Canon S60, Manado 05. On-board strobe.

And I get to pay for all of them when we go out to the sea (2 AOW, 2 Padi scuba divers, 2 snorkellers, and no baby bonus - I asked, they say why you shot before general gave order?).

Where to find $ to buy strobe?

 

[picorat]

ok i dont know why but it seems one of my reply from 2 hours ago got lost somewhere. perhaps i closed my ie tab before i posted.

ddamd thanks for your long and detailed explanation! I think i am a fairly competent land photographer, and have at least rudimentary knowledge of lighting basics. The problem i am encountering now however, is that there are no colours underwater. the onboard flash is barely enough for the job.

but i do get your point about learning to shoot within the limits of your equipment. It is the kind of approach i'm taking to photography really; which is why 5 years into photography and still no SLR for me. kindda too poor buying other stuff...

btw i love your lionfish shot! could be sharper though, and one fin looks missing. uh the words are also a little distracting. but the entire photo is simple and :thumbsup:

The d2000s looks really nice! examining 1 model really gives me a much better idea of how strobes work rather then reading up on generic tips. thanks lovell for the correct point in direction!

one thing though; are all strobe compatible with all housings? or are they manufacturer specific?

 

[picorat]

Hey I have many items in my bag too, although no more diaper and milk powder.

How about 6 wet suits, 6 pairs of fins, 2 cameras, 3 sets of regulators and BCDs....

My then-little-girl now dive buddy. Canon S60, Manado 05. On-board strobe.

And I get to pay for all of them when we go out to the sea (2 AOW, 2 Padi scuba divers, 2 snorkellers, and no baby bonus - I asked, they say why you shot before general gave order?).

Where to find $ to buy strobe?

ok i could be misintepreting what you're saying. but er....

6 pairs of fins?? excluding you + wife, do you have 4 children??

sorry please don't take this the wrong way but it's just very wow!

 

[lovells19]

haha think the equipment is for me haha

the optically trigger strobe works with any camera that has an internal strobe. I think it works better with M mode rather then the P mode, no direct connection thus not perfect

for fishes, and bigger subjects, usually strobes are not good enf, unless u can get close enf, less then ard 1m or less, if not chances are there are no colors, the location of the shoot also matters. having an external strobe just extend your color distance a little further.

try to make full use of ur camera internal flash, it can do wonders sometimes or just shoot ambient light, not much color but still can be very ncie

 

[diediealsomustdive]

The problem i am encountering now however, is that there are no colours underwater. the onboard flash is barely enough for the job.

But the first 4 photos posted are all on-board tinny flash, and there is colours! You gotta ask yourself what have you done and how that can be achieved without addition of a strobe? Of course there are limitations.

btw i love your lionfish shot! could be sharper though, and one fin looks missing. uh the words are also a little distracting. but the entire photo is simple and :thumbsup:

Not sure if it is really not very sharp or artifact of resizing? Or maybe it is simply PnS not delivering the best. But what the heck, I have a decent shot that I can show around a bit. Good enough for me.

The d2000s looks really nice! examining 1 model really gives me a much better idea of how strobes work rather then reading up on generic tips. thanks lovell for the correct point in direction!

one thing though; are all strobe compatible with all housings? or are they manufacturer specific?

Read the sTTL description on the Inon D2000s. And the strobe is optically triggered, i.e. when your on-board flash fires, it triggers the external flash, usually through a optic fibre cord. The sTTL part works on mimicing the onboard flash, so I read. But my (and your) s70 when in M mode does not provide any auto exposure - flash fires off in manual as well, you can choose whether in full, half or quarter power. I have not figure out how I could use the sTTL with the S70, maybe have to shot in aperture priority, but that generally means that I get the aperture I want but not the shutter speed (think the camera defaults to 1/60 whenever flash is activated).

Lovells' reply is instructive, anything > 1+ m and your colour is gone. And I am experiencing it with my external strobe. Still back at the drawing board to understand how to deal with this issue of strobe power vs natural light and absorbing power of the water column.

 

[diediealsomustdive]

ok i could be misintepreting what you're saying. but er....

6 pairs of fins?? excluding you + wife, do you have 4 children??

sorry please don't take this the wrong way but it's just very wow!

Yes you read right. 4 of them, 2 girls, 2 boys. Boys in the middle. Come January, 3 in secondary school.

But it is fun to have my own troop storming into the water at Pulau Sibu to snorkel and see the elder 3 kids surface dive with me, trying to spot the puffer fish hiding under the rocks!

 

[evo5755]

Read the sTTL description on the Inon D2000s. And the strobe is optically triggered, i.e. when your on-board flash fires, it triggers the external flash, usually through a optic fibre cord. The sTTL part works on mimicing the onboard flash, so I read. But my (and your) s70 when in M mode does not provide any auto exposure - flash fires off in manual as well, you can choose whether in full, half or quarter power. I have not figure out how I could use the sTTL with the S70, maybe have to shot in aperture priority, but that generally means that I get the aperture I want but not the shutter speed (think the camera defaults to 1/60 whenever flash is activated).

When you shoot in canon camera in Manual mode, the S-ttl mode could not be used and must be disabled. Use manual instead.

 

[picorat]

Not sure if it is really not very sharp or artifact of resizing? Or maybe it is simply PnS not delivering the best. But what the heck, I have a decent shot that I can show around a bit. Good enough for me.

The lionfish's body itself looks like it's in focus; it's the little details which seem a little soft; for example if you look at the rocks behind they do not have the kind of sharpness which they should have. ditto that with lines on the left fin.
imo, prolly due to movement?

Read the sTTL description on the Inon D2000s. And the strobe is optically triggered, i.e. when your on-board flash fires, it triggers the external flash, usually through a optic fibre cord. The sTTL part works on mimicing the onboard flash, so I read. But my (and your) s70 when in M mode does not provide any auto exposure - flash fires off in manual as well, you can choose whether in full, half or quarter power. I have not figure out how I could use the sTTL with the S70, maybe have to shot in aperture priority, but that generally means that I get the aperture I want but not the shutter speed (think the camera defaults to 1/60 whenever flash is activated).

Lovells' reply is instructive, anything > 1+ m and your colour is gone. And I am experiencing it with my external strobe. Still back at the drawing board to understand how to deal with this issue of strobe power vs natural light and absorbing power of the water column.

I'm going to try to walk into an actual shop and see how the d2000s is like. now i'm tempted to not get it at all... save some money and use it to dive instead.

&, 4 children! wow, you must be a very proud father. i have 3 siblings too, but we're all products of late 70s/early 80s.

families of >3 are rather uncommon in generation y and z...

 

[antacid]

The lionfish's body itself looks like it's in focus; it's the little details which seem a little soft; for example if you look at the rocks behind they do not have the kind of sharpness which they should have. ditto that with lines on the left fin.
imo, prolly due to movement?



I'm going to try to walk into an actual shop and see how the d2000s is like. now i'm tempted to not get it at all... save some money and use it to dive instead.

&, 4 children! wow, you must be a very proud father. i have 3 siblings too, but we're all products of late 70s/early 80s.

families of >3 are rather uncommon in generation y and z...

regarding the decision to get a strobe or not, my take on that is to work on the skills needed for u/w photography first, such as buoyancy, composition, and the little things that make a WOW! photo.

only when you look at it and say "damn, it'll be perfect if i had a strobe" then perhaps it's time to get one.

the reason is because i've seen quite a few divers pick up diving, get a camera 20 dives later, and a strobe soon after. the end result: they're all over the place, stomping coral trying to get in position, and shots that actually look worse than if they could just concentrate on taking the picture instead of worrying about strobe settings and positioning.

one step at a time is my philosophy. of course, if you're 'there' already then go right ahead and get a strobe today!

((=

 

[lovells19]

one step at a time is my philosophy. of course, if you're 'there' already then go right ahead and get a strobe today!

((=

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheergal: :cheergal:

couldn't agreee better~!

 

[diediealsomustdive]

I'm going to try to walk into an actual shop and see how the d2000s is like. now i'm tempted to not get it at all... save some money and use it to dive instead.

I wasn't trying to dissuade you from buying, but do think that there is still room for improvement in your present setup before the strobe thingy has to come in before your UW photography can go somewhere.

And the other skills that Antacid had said are all so vital...

Dive more, work on skills (maybe only on photo part of the skills, if you don't mind me saying it), then "dive" right in and get that strobe.

 

[Photosmart]

get a Ikelite DS400!!! best built in aiming light, and lead weights, and can act as a hammer!

Whoever want to try the SS400, feel free to contact me....I lent it to you FOC....provide if you can handle it...hahaha :bsmilie:..