Sony® (alpha) DSLR-A100

[eow]

dude, in that case #1 is wrong because it says

ISO: Auto/160/200/400/800/1600

So you mean Sony Auto = ISO 80 or #1 got it all wrong or you got it all wrong? Otherway, generally speaking film ISO starts much lower than 80, actually the lowest I know of is 25.

Why don't you explain the logic and the facts behind the anti dust instead? I am not saying I am a guru, and I still don't have to proof anything, actually I also say I am not a pro nor an expert. Just one with the right to question and have opinions. I am not entering the sand pit competition again to play this childrens game about low light and noisy Oly. I know Sony makes the world best sensor.

My intentions on whishing the Sony community a Happy birthday for the new camera was real, honest and came from my heart, because I love people who love photography regardless of their camera brand. You can not take that joy away by trying to start and win a war which I am not interested in attending. And if I would not love my gear I would be a stupid idiot paying so much money for it and not being happy with it. That is not the way I do business, simply because my budget does not allow that kind of spending.

dun get so edgy olyflyer
u enjoy yr olympus ..fine i 'm happy for u... i'm just stating the fact the iso start at 80
as for the fact if a dslr can't af well in lowlighting...it as good as useless....that why i'm asking...it for yr own good..least u go around bragging how wonderful yr cam is ....much to the amusement of the nikon and canon users

 

[OlyFlyer]

dun get so edgy olyflyer
u enjoy yr olympus ..fine i 'm happy for u... i'm just stating the fact the iso start at 80...

Fine with me. Than we agree #1 is wrong, ISO for Alpha is: Auto/80/160 and so on. Or was it Sony Auto = 80?

as for the fact if a dslr can't af well in lowlighting...it as good as useless...

How dark should that be in Lumen? My cam AF works down to so dark that it actually surprises me. Anyway, me, I just left the dark ages of manual focus and film photography, and still have no problem with manual focus, I learned photography that way. Actually, you bring in something new (again). This has nothing to do with my two comments on Sony, why change the subject?

...that why i'm asking...it for yr own good..least u go around bragging how wonderful yr cam is ....much to the amusement of the nikon and canon users

What's for my own good is not for you to tell me.

 

[OlyFlyer]

I think you info is not up to date :sweat:

Thanks for that information. This is then the official, so, message #1 is wrong. It was not very logical to start at ISO160, 80 is much more reasonable. That's why I commented that part.

Some forumers explaination on the Indium Tin Oxide layer/Anti-Static Coating, make some sense to me...

I did read about the anti-static coating, I think that is a great idea and in combination with the "shaker" probably works very well, better than Olympus. I just don't understand the logic behind shaking the sensor when you turn the camera off. Even that would be OK if it would also automatically shake after each lens change when turning the camera ON. That way I think you would get the optimal preformance, leaving behind the Olympus long start-up delay due to the shaker being activated at each ON-time, and still would have the dusted off sensor after each lens change. To me, not logical to have to turn on/off/on the camera after lens change.

So, Beta is not needed for ISO, since 80 is the minimum, but still needed for the shaker. My guess, that there is a firmware change soon.

Thanks, happy shooting.

Happy shooting to you too. And to all who shares the same passion.

 

[sulhan]

Oh Yeah....

Where will the dust drop to?.....into a tiny slot into your inner compartment and then let it drop off a secret hole in your tripod mount ...or it will get discharged out from the shutter CCD compartment...straght into.....the AF chamber.....also known as the Autofocus chamber....whahhhahah:devil:

 

[pai]

the main iso settings are 100/200/400/800/1600. the iso 80 is available with a special "zone-matching" mode. there isn't any user setting for iso 160. yes, the earlier info was wrong.

i agree that if you want to keep the sensor as dust free as possible, then doing the cleaning at startup makes more sense. but there's also a trade off, e.g. some people feel that doing it every time the camera starts doesn't make sense because the user may not have changed the lens, and the camera takes longer to start.

in an ideal world, the user should be able to choose from various settings when and how often they want their sensor cleaned by the anti-dust system. that said, sony's antidust coating, and the shaking at shutdown seem like a good compromise. i'm not having major dust problems with my 5d, and this will reduce those problems even more. not perfect, and i'll welcome any further improvements, but not really a big deal.

heh, no need to get into any fights over brands or what lah. i support all the less common brands, fuji, pentax, oly, minolta, pana etc - they have brought many innovations to the camera industry. hopefuly as high dynamic range, anti-dust, anti-shake etc become more common, competition will produce more and more fully featured cameras from every maker.

i'll miss the feeling of being in the smaller minolta family. but having several A-mount lenses, i do feel a vested interest in sony's alpha project. i hope they make good dslrs and better and better lenses to go with them.

 

[AncientMariner]

Happy birthday Alpha! And good luck to you all Sony lovers, I am sure you will love this camera and the intro to DSLR world.

I am not very highly educated on Sony logic and Sony cameras, but I wonder why it starts at ISO 160, which is a strange value. There are occasions when you want low ISO to be able to reduce shutter speed AND aperture or is Alpha only for low light conditions? I even wish mine had ISO 50 as low limit some times when there is just too much light.

I, too, know nothing about Sony's logic or cameras and am just a newbie. I had been taught there is more to just ISO settings to get correct exposures for different light levels. When there is too much light, I find it more effective to reduce aperture and/or increase shutter speed than change iso setting primarily because there are less iso settings available. Do you have less aperture and shutter speed stops than iso in your camera?
I have a prosumer with iso settings ranging from 50 to 400 but I find pics at iso 200 and above too noisy. On the other hand, whilst my 5D has iso100 I avoid that because I find I like the pics best at iso200 and use this most often but am comfortable using settings up to 3200 when I need that to get a faster shutter speed etc.

Also, I don't understand the logic about the anti dust being activated when you turn off the camera. And the explanation is "to reduce start up time". It may be true if you always use the same lens, in that case it may not even be necessary. Dust enters mainly when you change lens. That means you have to turn off the camera, change lens then turn on the camera to be able to turn off the camera again to activate anti dust when it is needed mostly. That is not very logical to me.
...

I normally use a hand blower on the camera, lens and body and lens caps when I am done shooting and never before. Therefore, the anti-dust activating after shutdown would be more helpful in removing dust from the system than at startup when the dust would be trapped and returned to the charged CCD whilst shooting.

 

[OlyFlyer]

Oh Yeah....

Where will the dust drop to?.....into a tiny slot into your inner compartment and then let it drop off a secret hole in your tripod mount ...or it will get discharged out from the shutter CCD compartment...straght into.....the AF chamber.....also known as the Autofocus chamber....whahhhahah:devil:

You can read about the Oly system here: http://www.olympus-esystem.com/dea/technology/usf/index.html I am sure it works, since it is not a new invention. I have no idea how Sony fixed it though, but I guess it is something similar plus the added anti-static coating on the sensor.

Anyway, we are not talking about several tons of dust, I am sure they figured out what to do with it.

 

[AncientMariner]

You can read about the Oly system here: http://www.olympus-esystem.com/dea/technology/usf/index.html I am sure it works, since it is not a new invention. I have no idea how Sony fixed it though, but I guess it is something similar plus the added anti-static coating on the sensor.
...

Thanks for the link.
However, the Oly and the Sony dust-reduction systems are totally different. The "sonic" in the Oly description means it uses supersonic "sound" waves. From the video, it would appear it attracts dusts to the SSWF and then "shakes" it off. It appears the dust is shaken off the SSWF and then drops and remains within the camera. But won't that mean that when more dust enters the system when changing lenses, shutter operation etc more accumulates within the system? Wonder what is the "capacity" of the SSWF? :bsmilie:
Another thought - their CCD does not move and therefore if they retain the system, and wish to include image stabilisation in future, it will have to be incorporated in the lens.

 

[OlyFlyer]

I, too, know nothing about Sony's logic or cameras and am just a newbie. I had been taught there is more to just ISO settings to get correct exposures for different light levels. When there is too much light, I find it more effective to reduce aperture and/or increase shutter speed than change iso setting primarily because there are less iso settings available. Do you have less aperture and shutter speed stops than iso in your camera?
I have a prosumer with iso settings ranging from 50 to 400 but I find pics at iso 200 and above too noisy. On the other hand, whilst my 5D has iso100 I avoid that because I find I like the pics best at iso200 and use this most often but am comfortable using settings up to 3200 when I need that to get a faster shutter speed etc.

I have no idea how the 5D works, but normally the less ISO the higher the image quality in regard to noise. It has alway been so, less sensitive films had always smaller grain and thus 'sharper' picture. But selected ISO is many times a compromise and a matter of taste. If you find ISO 200 the best for you, that is the main thing. And yes, there are times when I want to increase shutter speed and to be able to do that the smallest aperture (f22) is not small enough. In that case reducing ISO would help. Of course, one could use filter to do that also, but then it have to be removed maybe for the next pic. It is always easier and quicker to change ISO.

I normally use a hand blower on the camera, lens and body and lens caps when I am done shooting and never before. Therefore, the anti-dust activating after shutdown would be more helpful in removing dust from the system than at startup when the dust would be trapped and returned to the charged CCD whilst shooting.

I don't really understand you. It is just what is happening, dust enters the camera when you change the lens. Assuming the camera was in use just before, everything inside the camera is staticly charged when you remove the lens. Now, the anti static coating may help a bit, but I think after lens change the sensor should definitly get a good shake too, when the camera is turned on. I don't see any point in actually shaking the sensor at each 'ON' time, like Oly does, it would better to shake at each 'OFF' time + each time lens changed.

 

[wind30]

Thanks for the link.
However, the Oly and the Sony dust-reduction systems are totally different. The "sonic" in the Oly description means it uses supersonic "sound" waves. From the video, it would appear it attracts dusts to the SSWF and then "shakes" it off. It appears the dust is shaken off the SSWF and then drops and remains within the camera. But won't that mean that when more dust enters the system when changing lenses, shutter operation etc more accumulates within the system? Wonder what is the "capacity" of the SSWF? :bsmilie:

Should last for many years. Anyway the oly system of dust reduction is tried tested and proven to be a very good solution by many oly users. When I was using the E1, I change lens very often outdoors during my trip to Korea. Not a single spec of dust in any of my photos. I only hope that the sony method would be as effective.

My s3pro, BRAND NEW, from fujiflim already got dust.

 

[OlyFlyer]

Thanks for the link.
However, the Oly and the Sony dust-reduction systems are totally different. The "sonic" in the Oly description means it uses supersonic "sound" waves. From the video, it would appear it attracts dusts to the SSWF and then "shakes" it off. It appears the dust is shaken off the SSWF and then drops and remains within the camera. But won't that mean that when more dust enters the system when changing lenses, shutter operation etc more accumulates within the system? Wonder what is the "capacity" of the SSWF? :bsmilie:
Another thought - their CCD does not move and therefore if they retain the system, and wish to include image stabilisation in future, it will have to be incorporated in the lens.

I don't know the details, just that it is not something new and has been working reliably since a few years. I would not have trusted it if it was a new invention. And I don't think you have to worry about the amount of dust, however it is, I think Sony also keeps all dust somewhere in the camera body forever, or is there a secret exit? :dunno:

 

[grado]

Happy birthday Alpha! And good luck to you all Sony lovers, I am sure you will love this camera and the intro to DSLR world.

Also, I don't understand the logic about the anti dust being activated when you turn off the camera. And the explanation is "to reduce start up time". It may be true if you always use the same lens, in that case it may not even be necessary. Dust enters mainly when you change lens. That means you have to turn off the camera, change lens then turn on the camera to be able to turn off the camera again to activate anti dust when it is needed mostly. That is not very logical to me.

Sorry for being so rude on this big day after The day of the Alpha. I think it is time for a Beta. :bsmilie: (I hope you don't mind the joke with words.)

I think its logical to activate the anti dust when turning off the camera, or else start up time is delayed. I rather change the lens, activate the anti dust by switching off, and switch back on and shoot as per normal, then have to wait for the start up time each time i turn on the camera, which will occur far more often, in which i may lose the chance to capture the moment.

 

[OlyFlyer]

I think its logical to activate the anti dust when turning off the camera, or else start up time is delayed. I rather change the lens, activate the anti dust by switching off, and switch back on and shoot as per normal, then have to wait for the start up time each time i turn on the camera, which will occur far more often, in which i may lose the chance to capture the moment.

That is the official explanation. Anyway, every time you change lens you will have a long delay and a strange procedure, first off, then remove lens, on with the new one, then on, then off and lastly on again to be able to shoot. For me that is not logical. I understand the time saving explanation just not buying it. Ok that you don't normally change lens after each picture, but still... I think it is a kind of P&S camera thinking logic where you don't change lenses at all. And what is the actual time to first shoot anyway? I can not find that on official information page. Anybody has any facts? Real facts!

Anyway, the US$1000 is a good price, and it should give a good beating to both Nikon, Canon, Olympus and others, if people really trust Sony as a DSLR manufaturer, not just big mouth talking about how good it is. Don't take this last sentence personally, grado, not directed to you. Actually, to win the market Sony has to convince newcommers, not just Sony fans. And Canon actually fights back, because at least here in Sweden the 350D has dropped the price by about 15% the last week, while Oly raised the price on E-500 by about 5%, which I think is a quite strange way of fighting competition. But... :dunno:

 

[Morphis]

And what is the actual time to first shoot anyway? I can not find that on official information page. Anybody has any facts? Real facts!

Anyway, the US$1000 is a good price, and it should give a good beating to both Nikon, Canon, Olympus and others, if people really trust Sony as a DSLR manufaturer, not just big mouth talking about how good it is. ... ... .... ... ... ... ... ... .. ... .. .:

Sorry, I tot I cld help you on your personal quest for the truth, the Real facts.:think:
By 3am, the Z munsters got me.:embrass:
Wish you the best.:thumbsup:
I've got a day job.

 

[OlyFlyer]

Sorry, I tot I cld help you on your personal quest for the truth, the Real facts.:think:
By 3am, the Z munsters got me.:embrass:
Wish you the best.:thumbsup:
I've got a day job.

Cheater! You wasted a full hour with sleep, time log says you posted your msg 02:09AM, not 3AM. Or is my log time different to yours? :think: Anyway, don't you know too much sleep makes you tired also? I tought I am the only one who can be buried in cyber space looking for some Real facts and forgetting that there is an other day breaking and it is soon time to drive to work.

Jokes aside, strange that that figure is not mentioned anywhere on Sony's official page. I guess we better spend some more time sleeping and let some testers measure the figure. I am sure we are not the only two persons interested in that, since so many people talk about the anti dust shaker activated at power-off time to save start-up time. Actually, there is an other question connected to it: for how long does it shake the CCD each time?

 

[sulhan]

............
Also, I don't understand the logic about the anti dust being activated when you turn off the camera. And the explanation is "to reduce start up time". It may be true if you always use the same lens, in that case it may not even be necessary. Dust enters mainly when you change lens. That means you have to turn off the camera, change lens then turn on the camera to be able to turn off the camera again to activate anti dust when it is needed mostly. That is not very logical to me.......

Hi there...

IMHO Shaking the ccd is specifically for activities behind the shutter. It does not matter if you change 4 or 5 lens....all those dust would be in the mirror chamber in front of the shutter...

 

[Stanly]

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydslra100/

dpreview has a preview to the new DSLR.....

 

[ratboy]

Since there's so much traffic on dust ... i have to post my 0.05¢ worth

Dust is good... even the best processed film gets dust spots occassionaly
embrace the dust ... do not reject it
makes you photos more " real " : )

 

[OlyFlyer]

Hi there...

IMHO Shaking the ccd is specifically for activities behind the shutter. It does not matter if you change 4 or 5 lens....all those dust would be in the mirror chamber in front of the shutter...

Strange that nobody pointed that out before. I guess it is so obvious that everybody, including myself missed that elementary fact. :bsmilie:

That means both Sony and Oly have no use of anti dust until camera is switched off/on after the lens change AND we have to take at least one picture first, after lens change. Unless Oly SSWF sits in mirror chamber, and I don't think it does. :dunno:

 

[OlyFlyer]

Since there's so much traffic on dust ... i have to post my 0.05¢ worth

Dust is good... even the best processed film gets dust spots occassionaly
embrace the dust ... do not reject it
makes you photos more " real " : )

Well, I don't plan to change 'film' (read CCD) in my DSLR as films where changed in my old cameras. Every time I changed film the camera got cleaned, and actually, new frame = new CCD (looking from the film cameras view. I just can not afford new CCD for every picture. Can you? And if you don't clean CCD, dust will be the only thing in your images. But it's your dust, not mine, so it is up to you.