Rules rules rules, the clubsnap way

[user1]

I know what follows may well get myself into hot soup with the moderators here, or probably even getting myself banned here. but i feel unjust with the words put through to me, in private.

I posted a picture of my 1 week old son in the critique corner and gotten a few honest feedback. Intent was genuine and sincere with no spasm involved. I had the chance to take another similar picture and i thought it was an improvement and thus immediately posted it. To my horror the post got deleted and i received the following in my PM:

[QUOTE=eikin]please take note of the posting rules

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273376

your second image has been removed.

consider what is worth putting up for critique before making a post, each member is only allowed 1 picture per week.[/QUOTE]


Of course i replied with the following:

"I comprehend your post as what i have put up as worthless and i find it rather insulting. But it's fine, you are the boss."


OK, i may have VIOLATED the rules here, but in my anxiety to improve my photographic skills i have have forgotten 1 of the infinite number of rules here. I may not be a professional photographer, but i do not think i put up rubbish nor was there an ill intent. I just find this very amusing and silly. i thought a simple reminder would suffice, or at most delete away the photo. but to delete away the WHOLE post means that i have to type it all out again, not that i bother now anyway, and to top it up, an insult in my PM.

I know alot of you guys will side with the moderators, but what the heck.

PS: this was the link to the post in the critique section, of course you won't be able to see the post i replied to Caleb.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385627

 

[eikin]

since you like to make this public, here's my reply to you in pm as well.

a picture's worth is only determined by the creator. the purpose of the rules is to force each poster to self-reflect on what is best to put up for critique. it's not allowable that members keep changing pictures they put up for critique.

if you want to read it as an attack on your picture, that's fine with me. i don't get anything out of attacking your picture, you won't get anything out of reading beyond what is written as well.

 

[user1]

and just now i got another PM:

"a picture's worth is only determined by the creator. the purpose of the rules is to force each poster to self-reflect on what is best to put up for critique. it's not allowable that members keep changing pictures they put up for critique.

if you want to read it as an attack on your picture, that's fine with me. i don't get anything out of attacking your picture, you won't get anything out of reading beyond what is written as well."

Oh well, now i am accused of CHANGING my photo. Geez. what next

 

[user1]

since you like to make this public, here's my reply to you in pm as well.

a picture's worth is only determined by the creator. the purpose of the rules is to force each poster to self-reflect on what is best to put up for critique. it's not allowable that members keep changing pictures they put up for critique.

if you want to read it as an attack on your picture, that's fine with me. i don't get anything out of attacking your picture, you won't get anything out of reading beyond what is written as well.

of course i want to make this public. i have nothing to hide. in fact, i am generating more traffic for Clubsnap. This is just so anti-photography-learning for a newbie like me.

What damaged have i done by accidently just posting anopther picture?

 

[eikin]

...

Of course i replied with the following:

"I comprehend your post as what i have put up as worthless and i find it rather insulting. But it's fine, you are the boss."


OK, i may have VIOLATED the rules here, but in my anxiety to improve my photographic skills i have have forgotten 1 of the infinite number of rules here. I may not be a professional photographer, but i do not think i put up rubbish nor was there an ill intent. I just find this very amusing and silly. i thought a simple reminder would suffice, or at most delete away the photo. but to delete away the WHOLE post means that i have to type it all out again, not that i bother now anyway, and to top it up, an insult in my PM.

I know alot of you guys will side with the moderators, but what the heck.

PS: this was the link to the post in the critique section, of course you won't be able to see the post i replied to Caleb.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385627

i'll just like to make a correction that this is the exact post you first replied to me.

I read your post as what i have put up as worthless and i find it rather insulting. But it's fine, you are the boss. But i am sure you have your own boss as well.

btw, feedback should be done in the feedback section http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

 

[CS TAN]

[QUOTE=eikin]please take note of the posting rules

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273376

your second image has been removed.

consider what is worth putting up for critique before making a post, each member is only allowed 1 picture per week.

To me, the message from the moderator looks perfectly fine. He/She is merely pointing out that you are only allow to post one picture for critique per week and is asking you to consider carefully which one you want to post so as not to waste the opportunity. I think you are a bit sensitive.

If you ask me, I will phrase it slightly differently:

please take note that each member is only allowed 1 picture per week so consider carefully before putting up the picture for critique.

please take note of the posting rules

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273376

your second image has been removed.

 

[psyk1]

being new to the forum, I guess it is understandable that you overlook some of the rules.. but there are there for a reason, decided and enforced way before you joined the forum.. so take the time to learn the forum etiquette, then maybe less misunderstandings will happen..

the moderator means well, as long as you do not take what he said too hard.. in today's world of online communication going by only text and without any idea of the other person's expressions and tone, I think it gets really easy to misunderstand the other person's intent.. not to mention everyone have their own style of putting his/her msg across..

 

[Legoz]

I guess if its another real attempt to improve one's skill, the forum should allow for a 2nd post...or even 3rd post.
Lets not get carried away with rigid rules and regulations. We are all here to learn, interact and hopefully improve ourselves. Perhapes, the way forward is for the moderators to veiw each post objectively...
DOnt make this place so unfriendly eh?

In any case, i guess the time to throng the pages to search for repeated forumers who post 2nd or 3rd cant take any less time to determine if the post is a genuine one..=>

 

[ahbian]

I guess if its another real attempt to improve one's skill, the forum should allow for a 2nd post...or even 3rd post.
Lets not get carried away with rigid rules and regulations. We are all here to learn, interact and hopefully improve ourselves. Perhapes, the way forward is for the moderators to veiw each post objectively...
DOnt make this place so unfriendly eh?

In any case, i guess the time to throng the pages to search for repeated forumers who post 2nd or 3rd cant take any less time to determine if the post is a genuine one..=>

I think it was viewed objectively in the first place, that is why the allowed number is one per week regardless of the poster's intent?

As for those interested in posting more than one within a short time, there are always other more appropriate sub-forums.

 

[nightwolf75]

I think it was viewed objectively in the first place, that is why the allowed number is one per week regardless of the poster's intent?

As for those interested in posting more than one within a short time, there are always other more appropriate sub-forums.

the reason why the critique sub-forum was set up (originally) was that the other sub-forums were flooded with pics. some members wanted a special sub-forum so that they can post some of their serious works for others to C&C for improvements.

originally, there was no limit (IIRC). however, soon enough, people started to treat the critique sub-forum as yet another gallery and flooded it with pics. hence, to put some QC into the pics, the Admins and mods running the sub-forum imposed the 1 pic rule - in the hope that people will put some serious thot into the reason as to why they took the pic the way it was shot etc...

if you just want to showcase a general shot, you can use the usual sub-forums. dat said, the purpose of the critique sub-forum is NOT to create an elitist clique - thot i get this clear as there are many conspiracy theorists out there.

 

[user1]

Puting aside any perceived squabble from my part, let me voice out objectively on the critique's corner. Why do we post our photos and be subjected to criticism --> We aim to improve on our photo shooting skill and not make the same mistake. We do it openly in a forum as fellow photographers may see things a newbie can't.

As for my case, i noted a few negative comments on my first picture and i tried to improve on it. I thought i might have taken a better photo after the first one and thus posted it for comments. I believe i have not insinuated the idea of showcasing my photos in any way in that thread, nor am i capable yet to "showcase" my photos.

As one forumer has mentioned, why not look at it as a case by case rather than just deleting it? do we have to wait 1 week just for comments to see if we have improved?

Do note that i have tried to reduced the size of the photo to minimize wastage of bandwidth.

Anyway, one bad experience is good enough, or in this case bad enough.

 

[denniskee]

Puting aside any perceived squabble from my part, let me voice out objectively on the critique's corner. Why do we post our photos and be subjected to criticism --> We aim to improve on our photo shooting skill and not make the same mistake. We do it openly in a forum as fellow photographers may see things a newbie can't.

As for my case, i noted a few negative comments on my first picture and i tried to improve on it. I thought i might have taken a better photo after the first one and thus posted it for comments. I believe i have not insinuated the idea of showcasing my photos in any way in that thread, nor am i capable yet to "showcase" my photos.

As one forumer has mentioned, why not look at it as a case by case rather than just deleting it? do we have to wait 1 week just for comments to see if we have improved?

Do note that i have tried to reduced the size of the photo to minimize wastage of bandwidth.

Anyway, one bad experience is good enough, or in this case bad enough.

maybe you can try over and over again to reply and close the thread posted by newbie who dont read the guidelines and post more than 1 photo in 1 single thread or, like you, start another thread in less than 1 week.

know this, we have gone through a lengthy discussion before the critic corner is setup. most cser had contribute their views and the guideline was written base on that.

may be you can look at this feedback that i wrote recently

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385409

if you have feedback, pls use the correct avenue to do that.

 

[eikin]

do we have to wait 1 week just for comments to see if we have improved?

yes.

everyone has his/her own reasons for breaking rules and each will start arguing why this and not that. who is to judge?

critique is not a ''hit-and-run'' activity and requires patience. it's precisely because most people in the forum have little experience in critiques that the 1 week limitation is implemented, to force critics and thread-starter alike to focus on that 1 picture, sorting out any issues anyone feel are important. you need to reflect as the artist, whether suggestions offered are indeed useful, and not jump to respond immediately every time someone adds a new suggestion. you are responsible for your own artwork, others only offer opinions and advices, they don't speak for you.

if you want quicker responses, you're free to use the other galleries, the other galleries are free for all to post with no limitation on quantity.

 

[night86mare]

i'm quite tired, so i'm not reading the exchanges here, just the first post.

user1, don't take anything online too personally, as far as i can see it, eikin is really just doing his job by enforcing the critique corner rules, and not all rules are without reason. frankly if you ask me, without the 1 photo a week rule, you are just going to get a load of people hurling masses and stacks of photos into the critique corner, and that is fine, but you end up with a very poor selection and representation of what the photographer thinks is good. i do believe that it is written somewhere that you should only post up pictures that you really think are good, and therefore need critique on improving, if any is required.

writing critique is easy for the one-liners, but there are actually individuals who specifically take the effort to gaze at your photograph for long periods of time, if they feel like doing it.. even work on it ardously in photoshop to see if there are alternative routes of photoshoppery, and take time to pen down their thoughts, rewrite and reorganise before pressing the submit reply button. of course not all photos require such great amount of work.. but it has happened. i know i've spent up to two hours working on the suggested alternate pp route for particular photos.. and i guess that's why the rule is in place.

i hope you do not see this as a negative experience, because in the course of exploring clubsnap you are going to come across individuals who are REALLY harsh, REALLY rude, and REALLY malicious and out to make your day bad because theirs wasn't great.. and theirs will never be great. learning to discern who mean well, and who don't.. that's part of learning, i guess.

cheers, and please keep posting.

 

[shinken]

Dude, take a deep breath and slow down your thoughts. Try to clear your mind of your reasonings, then take a different perspective. Photography is all about perspective, when it comes to interpretation. The 1 photo per week rule may be limiting and frustrating. However, on hindsight, it would and possibly could do wonders to improve.

Many photographers these days, because of the generation of instant gratification brought about by technological convenience, are actually disadvantaged because it is so easy to make one shot. But making one picture actually takes lots of thinking. Lots of reflection. Understanding. Searching. I probably have shot less frames than an average CS-er despite doing this for a living. I have to check myself every time I clock one more frame, based on all previous frames I've clocked, out of which how many pictures I've actually created. How I've managed to create those images, and what went through my mind when I successfully created each image.

It's just my humble perspective on this incident. You may decide to continue posting on CS, or choose another avenue to get critique, or another path of photographic journey. But my 2 cents would be to point out the value behind the concept of 'waiting' in photography.

Cheers.

 

[ahbian]

Puting aside any perceived squabble from my part, let me voice out objectively on the critique's corner. Why do we post our photos and be subjected to criticism --> We aim to improve on our photo shooting skill and not make the same mistake. We do it openly in a forum as fellow photographers may see things a newbie can't.

As for my case, i noted a few negative comments on my first picture and i tried to improve on it. I thought i might have taken a better photo after the first one and thus posted it for comments. I believe i have not insinuated the idea of showcasing my photos in any way in that thread, nor am i capable yet to "showcase" my photos.

As one forumer has mentioned, why not look at it as a case by case rather than just deleting it? do we have to wait 1 week just for comments to see if we have improved?

Do note that i have tried to reduced the size of the photo to minimize wastage of bandwidth.

Anyway, one bad experience is good enough, or in this case bad enough.

You have made valid points about the idea of posting, gathering feedback and the willingness to improve.

You can post multiple pictures within a short time, you can get criticisms and opinion on your pictures for you to improve, but the idea is that its better that you use the other sub-forums instead of the critique corner.

 

[Leong23]

TS, just take it easy, it is true that personally don't like the way some mob replying.

But in it case, i felt that the mob is doing the right thing and i second the way he reply.

The reply from the mob,
"consider what is worth putting up for critique before making a post, each member is only allowed 1 picture per week."

Maybe the words "what is worth" trigger your unhappiness, because the image is your 1 week old son, and as a father, you felt insulted and you are eager to improve fast and shoot more.

The word "worth" to me is actually, do you actually self-critique the image first before posting.

Let quote a example,

I posted a photo in C&C
feedback is not sharp.

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is lighting not good

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is composition not good.

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is not sharp again

I quickly retake and repost.......there is no ending and that is not the way to learn.

Photography is an art and it also involve technical knowledge, it can't be rush.......
Read the manual, blush up your technical knowledge, read up some book on children photography (alot in Riceball), look at others photograph and most important, shoot more, do self-critique, and in no time, you will improve and create you own style. This is the way to learn, there are no shot-cut.

 

[Simon_84]

can try using the portraits sub-section.
no limits to no images being posted there.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

TS, just take it easy, it is true that personally don't like the way some mob replying.

But in it case, i felt that the mob is doing the right thing and i second the way he reply.

The reply from the mob,
"consider what is worth putting up for critique before making a post, each member is only allowed 1 picture per week."

Maybe the words "what is worth" trigger your unhappiness, because the image is your 1 week old son, and as a father, you felt insulted and you are eager to improve fast and shoot more.

The word "worth" to me is actually, do you actually self-critique the image first before posting.

Let quote a example,

I posted a photo in C&C
feedback is not sharp.

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is lighting not good

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is composition not good.

I quickly retake and repost
feedback is not sharp again

I quickly retake and repost.......there is no ending and that is not the way to learn.

Photography is an art and it also involve technical knowledge, it can't be rush.......
Read the manual, blush up your technical knowledge, read up some book on children photography (alot in Riceball), look at others photograph and most important, shoot more, do self-critique, and in no time, you will improve and create you own style. This is the way to learn, there are no shot-cut.

its mod, not mob... we not that bad yet... :devil:

 

[icebox]

Do calm down =)

On the net, or even in real life, not everyone has the habit of carefully considering all the nuances of their words. So sometimes a well-meaning thing turns into something sour by mistake. Furthermore being a moderator or some authority or sorts, impartiality dictates some slight harshness at timse.

Don't get bothered by this small incident, continue learning and discussing =)