Nikon D7000 rank higher than Canon 5Dk2 in dxomark

[renzokuken]

I don't believe in internet posters.... too many people dunno what they are talking about.

1. You got the info from the internet
2. DXOmark published their info on the internet
3. You're part of the internet
4. DXO mark did acknowledge that not all RAW files are unprocessed by the camera
5. the argument thrown in by doodah is valid
6. i dismiss dxomark's findings as being entirely representative of a camera's true performance
7. never trust only and solely one organization/association
8. have a nice day

 

[alantkh]

1. So?
2. So?
3. So?
4. So?
5. I don't think it is valid.
6. me too. I never said DXOMARK is entirely representative. In fact I said DIRECTLY OPPOSITE. please read my post.
7. who said to trust only one? There are more major review sites out there.
8. You too

1. You got the info from the internet
2. DXOmark published their info on the internet
3. You're part of the internet
4. DXO mark did acknowledge that not all RAW files are unprocessed by the camera
5. the argument thrown in by doodah is valid
6. i dismiss dxomark's findings as being entirely representative of a camera's true performance
7. never trust only and solely one organization/association
8. have a nice day

 

[doodah]

But the problem is that sensor manufacturers also know of the methodology and may "cheat" or try to find ways to inflate their numbers. I hope DXOMARK is on the ball and catch any "cheating"

And that is the problem... DXOMark has so far refused to acknowledge their methodology, while not wrong, hardly relates to real world images.

Read what Nikon did with their sensors: here, here, here, here, here, here and here. It's been dissected and discussed to death everywhere.

"The d5000 owner demonstrated carefully shot sequence of heavily underexposed shots that clearly shows adding constant offset to the dark level which exhibit itself by gradually reducing image contrast without dropping dark areas to the real dark (0,0,0)...

The trick just disturbs colors without adding anything useful to the image. Moreover it gives some marketing advantage to those who sacrifice image quality for stupid tests with inadequate method."

"... for cameras such as the Nikon D5000 where the black and near black noise levels have negative noise excursions clipped to the zero level. For the Nikon cameras it has been speculated that they may actually shift the zero point slightly positive and actually clip slightly too high."

"You are correct, the Canon 500D which does not do Noise Reduction (NR) to raw at all has the most detail (and noise), while the Nikon D5000 which does the most (uncaught by testing) NR to raw has the least detail and a slight amount less noise, where the K-x fits somewhere between. "

If you want more sensible tests, look at proper side-by-side tests done with REAL RAW images and decide for yourself, e.g., such as the one shown on this site.

On another note, I am all for in-camera tricks with RAW files. If it saves me time, why not? Besides [sacrasm mode on], I get the chance to boast to the world I've got the best DSLR endorsed by DXOMark. :sticktong Now, whether, the difference is real or not is irrelevant... [sacrasm mode off]

 

[powergoo]

Hi guys,

for those wanting to switch cams, juz buy the camera that suits u, we dun buy cos of higher DXO or specifications......many of these differences can be measured but difficult to see in real life...

 

[nathaniel]

Haha, first time I get into DXOmark and discovered that my old granfather 5D is rated better than both the 60D and 7D. Looks like I can now sell my 5D at a better price and maybe buy the K5, rated 82 ( don't know what it means, higher the number must be better). But what if suddenly Canon comes out with a 5DIII with a score of 90? Also was told that the Nikon D800 also coming out maybe with high score of 91. By the way, can anybody tell me how I can test my camera to check whether it can still score 71 after all this years because I have not sent it for servicing for quite sometime. Will my DR go lower? Why is photography so complicating nowadays, maybe should go back to shooting film.

good point: how much does the DXOmark score help the resale value of your 5D? (prior to before they launched DXOmark).

 

[Anthony Lee]

good point: how much does the DXOmark score help the resale value of your 5D? (prior to before they launched DXOmark).

Hope it doubles up.

Jokes aside, when the D3X scored a high 89, nobody bordered. When the scores for the E5 comes out, you can expect more noise as Olympus has been in the wrong end for a long time. To me, all this is good news as I will eventually have more choices when my 5D dies on me. The problem is, by the time it's dead, both the K5 and E5 will be also be obselete. What's real these days, I don't know. But for sure, I will still be shooting film as both my film camera and lenses will still be as good.

 

[victorlee10]

The proof is in the pudding I say. There have been so many comparison shots between canon, nikon, pentax on sites like image resources, dpreview etc and there have not been any claims that nikon/pentax photos look "nicer" than canon photos. Only when DXOmark started putting numbers on the sensors that allegations are made that d5000, k5 etc are better than 7d.

 

[antacid]

lucky i buy cameras to take pictures with.. not compare scores like trading cards. remember the old-skool A-jets and battleship cards? 32 in a deck. see who got more jet engines and wing span is larger.

 

[AbsolutKev]

If e photographer is good, he ll make good pics no matter the brand. Its the preference of the individual.

 

[night86mare]

The proof is in the pudding I say. There have been so many comparison shots between canon, nikon, pentax on sites like image resources, dpreview etc and there have not been any claims that nikon/pentax photos look "nicer" than canon photos. Only when DXOmark started putting numbers on the sensors that allegations are made that d5000, k5 etc are better than 7d.

improved DR = look nicer? :bsmilie:


don't get your logic leh. why would improving DR of a camera necessarily make the photo look nicer? there is no link!

 

[victorlee10]

improved DR = look nicer? :bsmilie:


don't get your logic leh. why would improving DR of a camera necessarily make the photo look nicer? there is no link!

dxomark score depends on more than DR. If according to dxomark the k-5 has wider DR, better color depth etc etc can you see these "improvements" when comparing 2 identical shots from 2 different cameras? If yes why has it taken until after dxomark published their results that ppl start saying what a good sensor the k-5 has.....

 

[night86mare]

dxomark score depends on more than DR. If according to dxomark the k-5 has wider DR, better color depth etc etc can you see these "improvements" when comparing 2 identical shots from 2 different cameras? If yes why has it taken until after dxomark published their results that ppl start saying what a good sensor the k-5 has.....

in the first place, none of the credible review sites like dpreview (ok, not so credible) or imaging resource have said much about the k-5. only previews has been done. i guess it is just not high on their priority list.

so who are these people saying what a good sensor k-5 has? people who didn't know about the k-5 in the first place.

who are you trying to kid that people actually talk about pentax in the first place? have you asked your relatives if they know about pentax producing dslr cameras? even for so-called serious photographers, most of them will just repeat the popular line that canon and nikon , you can't go wrong.

so please, don't try to paint it as people only talking about pentax k-5 having a good sensor AFTER the results. if you want to see evidence, please go and visit dpreview forums, or pentaxforums... loads of people were raving about the k-5 *and* k-r there, about how wonderful the improved performance, far exceeding their expectations that *had been raised* when the k-x swooped into the market with its great high iso capabilities.

even in pentax section here, it was already known once the first test images started spilling out on the web.

it is a case of sensor was already good, then dxomark's "shocking" test scores demolish and took apart all a lot of people's pipe dreams that their "can't go wrong" brands' models aren't the best out there, even based on silly numbers. :bsmilie:

 

[hotchoco1ate]

who cares.. really.

if you like the camera, buy it, use it.

if you don't like it, don't buy it, save your money.

if you like the camera, at the end of the day, if it floats your boat, you will come up with sufficient reasons to give to people why they should like it too.

if you don't like the camera, at the end of the day, if it floats your boat, you will come up with sufficient reasons to give to people why they should not like it.

people just have the innate need to make sure everyone else does what they do. i'm no different, but at least i see it and try to restrain it.

Regarding your last sentence. The reason is simple: Ppl who comment trying to retort the claims, for whatever reasons, are trying their best to assure themselves that they (canon users) did not pick the wrong brand. You don't see pros trying to refute the claims, its mostly those who, perhaps, just bought into the Canon system and having to deal with this kind of 'shock'.

Well instead of telling everyone how wrong the info is, why not just snigger to yourselves and disregard the rubbish claims? :bsmilie: Dxo destroyed your egos?

 

[commonjunks]

This could be a joke of the year.
I have used Nikon and 3 system of Canon and found no match for 5DM2 (i didn't use Nikon full frame).

 

[doodah]

Regarding your last sentence. The reason is simple: Ppl who comment trying to retort the claims, for whatever reasons, are trying their best to assure themselves that they (canon users) did not pick the wrong brand. You don't see pros trying to refute the claims, its mostly those who, perhaps, just bought into the Canon system and having to deal with this kind of 'shock'.

Actually, this happens everywhere... all the time... I remember just a couple of years back, someone got hold of a Nikon D200 and Canon 400D and carried out some side-by-side testing. In the end, he found that Canon's entry level camera was at least 1 stop better than the more expensive D200. He posted his observations on the web... and got blasted left right and center by Nikon supporters...

The wheel has now turned.. :bsmilie:

It appears Nikon & Pentax have truly mastered the art of in-camera RAW data massaging (see below). I have seen some ISO 6400 images and low ISO extreme dynamic range photos from the K-5... definitely VERY impressive stuff... K-5 owners can kiss goodbye to multi-exposure-bracketing, HDR, graduated filters etc... very convenient & cost-saving... :bsmilie:

Think about it... Nikon D7000, Pentax K-5 and Sony A55 all share the same Sony 16 MP APS-C sensor backbone... yet the D7000 and K-5 are far ahead of A55 in terms of high ISO performance and low ISO dynamic range. Well, Nikon claims they design their own sensors... But what about Pentax? Do they have the expertise and capital to carry out their own sensor designs (especially given that Tokina was on the verge of selling off Pentax at some point)... hmmm....

 

[renzokuken]

1. So?
2. So?
3. So?
4. So?
5. I don't think it is valid.
6. me too. I never said DXOMARK is entirely representative. In fact I said DIRECTLY OPPOSITE. please read my post.
7. who said to trust only one? There are more major review sites out there.
8. You too

you tried to dismissed a good argument online just because it is online
so i don't think you get to say the the "So?"s unless you can provide a more objective and balance, and comprehensive argument than what doodah did

i'm very unclear what the term "DIRECTLY OPPOSITE" means as your post:

I would rather trust one of the big review sites like DXOMARK with a well published standard methodology. "

seems to show that you believe in Dxomark's methodology more than what a typical person would, after providing facts, figures and references that says otherwise

the rest of your previous post on Sony's senor:

Actually, Sony already made a 24MP full frame sensor that have 14eV of DR in D3x some time back

Nobody doubted the capability of the D3x sensor. I think given 1-2 more years of engineering they could improve that slighly and give us a 16MP APS-C sensor with similar properties.

seems rather irrelevant
it just shows your faith towards a certain brand, these sentiments aren't very objective hence i did not read on,
moreover if you understand what dxomark did, their scores comprises more than merely the dynamic ranges (DR), so what you said just got more confusing

unless you can objectively prove the opposite of what doodah said
the "So?"s just make me feel like i'm reading those senseless article in www.stomp.com.sg where people are very concern about who gets the priority seat on the mrt

agree to disagree shall we?

 

[ricohflex]

The usual reviewer trick.
Let people chari makan, lah.
Any reviewer can pick on one particular aspect and based on that rank one product higher than another.

For example a reviewer can purposely choose to say Perodua Kanchil rank higher than a Bentley. Because the Kanchil has better fuel economy.
Think most people prefer the Bentley, though...if only they could afford it.

 

[hotchoco1ate]

Actually, this happens everywhere... all the time... I remember just a couple of years back, someone got hold of a Nikon D200 and Canon 400D and carried out some side-by-side testing. In the end, he found that Canon's entry level camera was at least 1 stop better than the more expensive D200. He posted his observations on the web... and got blasted left right and center by Nikon supporters...

The wheel has now turned.. :bsmilie:

It appears Nikon & Pentax have truly mastered the art of in-camera RAW data massaging (see below). I have seen some ISO 6400 images and low ISO extreme dynamic range photos from the K-5... definitely VERY impressive stuff... K-5 owners can kiss goodbye to multi-exposure-bracketing, HDR, graduated filters etc... very convenient & cost-saving... :bsmilie:

Think about it... Nikon D7000, Pentax K-5 and Sony A55 all share the same Sony 16 MP APS-C sensor backbone... yet the D7000 and K-5 are far ahead of A55 in terms of high ISO performance and low ISO dynamic range. Well, Nikon claims they design their own sensors... But what about Pentax? Do they have the expertise and capital to carry out their own sensor designs (especially given that Tokina was on the verge of selling off Pentax at some point)... hmmm....

Well Doodah i kinda get what you mean. But regarding comparing a55 and the nikon and pentax, its definitely not a fair comparison. a55 is a SLT technology, and uses some light to reach the EVF, thus i dont think its fair to use it to compare to DSLR. a55 aims at the amateurs mostly, and N and P at semi-pros. With such a portable body and being so light, its not hard to deduce its a dumb-downed version of a DSLR. But thats just from aesthetics. Feature wise i must admit its really mouth watering, considering the video AF. I didnt choose the a55 because its too small for my liking, and i dont really like the 'feel' of the kit lens. Too plasticky to take it seriously.

 

[nathaniel]

if the 5D II really has so much issue, then we'll see lots of people dumping theirs into the second hand market... price will drop (and those of us aiming to get the 5D II will pick up bargains).

 

[hotchoco1ate]

if the 5D II really has so much issue, then we'll see lots of people dumping theirs into the second hand market... price will drop (and those of us aiming to get the 5D II will pick up bargains).

There is absolutely no issue you are right. But COMPARATIVELY, some ppl think that it doesn't match up to newer technology :nono: