Nikon D3000 vs Canon 1000D. For a beginner

[joeltan111]

First up, let me correct some misconceptions in this thread.

Nikon D40x, D40, D60, D3000 DO NOT have focusing motor in their bodies. Neither do ALL canon cameras.

Why does this matter? Simple. ALL canon EF and EF-S lenses have inbuilt focusing motors, and therefore do not need internal focusing motors in the body. But, older Nikon lenses do not have this focusing motor in the lens, and therefore require an motor in the body to autofocus. This is limiting the lens selection to those particular lenses which DO have the motor in it.

Second, to TS: why not wait a while, as Canon and Nikon are probaly going to release new entry-level models in a matter of weeks. I think that it would serve you much better to wait a while and see if any of the new models are okay for you.

Just to let you know, I'm using the Canon 1000D myself, and i find it okay.

 

[bookwormm]

I think the so called "more user friendly" issue should not bother you. What's the point of getting something that won't make you learn? Learning just make the whole issue more exciting!

Have your own stand, rather than getting influenced. Regardless, either machine will still produce stunning shots in the hands of a pro. What is most important is you, and which machine you prefer more.

 

[VainKid]

Pentax KX?

 

[skyunicorn]

So ermm now canon don't have the motor too ?

Anyway so basically, I think that both cameras
1) will do what I need it to do
2) look the same aesthetically to me
3) price is the same
4) equally user friendly ( i mean user friendly by how easy is it to change the shutter speed, aperture etc. I hate digging into menus to change one setting. i like to have dedicated buttons for everything. on my computers I am a keyboard shortcut freak. best if I don't need to touch my mouse when I code. )
5) if I will get a lens it will probably only be one more
6) definitely getting a flash for the camera

so given that both are so similar, I'm just looking for something to push me towards one side. Can't possibly buy both of them

the guy used the cost of lens to push me towards canon, which is why I am mentioning it. I did not ask him "which one has cheaper lens?" I asked him "between 1000D and D3000 which one will you recommend me to get?"
ps: the SLR Revo is up until now the most patient and willing to share guy I have met. You should see how black the face of the guy at Song Brothers was. He asked me to get a Sony and simply said "Sony is the best." :dunno: no reason given.

I love to learn how to use the camera, I love exploring gadgets, which is why I hate the presets on my PnS. How boring. I read the D3000 has this user guide thing, but I did not see it on the actual camera so I don't think it will hinder me unless I went to look for it purposely.

Also I primarily want to take 'bokeh' shots, which refers to those shots where the subject is in focus and everything is blurred right. I understand this has nothing to do with the camera body but more with the lens, which brings me to considering buying one additional lens for it.

 

[skyunicorn]

Pentax KX?

I did ask the guy about this too, but the price was like $780 ?

The 1000D is $709, D3000 is $720 ish.

So not keen on the Pentax which is more expensive.

 

[denniskee]

I guess you are trying to say that camera bodies don't matter so much, it's the lenses that do ?

I think I have pretty much made up my mind thanks to all your feedback.

I'll be getting the canon brand new, unless I find a super duper good deal on a nikon d3000.

thank you very much everyone !

if u shoot bird, sport etc, u will need fast lens, fast af and likely weather sealed pro level gear.

if u like most of us here, want to enjoy photography as hobby but dont want to spend too much $$$, non pro dslr from past few years till now will give very good image quality even at high iso. difference i see are :

1) pixels count, more pixel doesnt means better image quality, but just means it can print big, A2 and above. if u dont print that size, even a 6mp dslr will do.

2) video recording.

for lens, yes, pro level lens typically are sharper, more contrasty, af faster, weather sealed, build in image stablelizer (not all though, some stablelizer are on the image sensor itself).


but most important i feel is the technics, understanding & applying basics of photography, constant critique on ur own photos, looking and understanding why magazines selected those images printed & how were they taken.

 

[skyunicorn]

if u shoot bird, sport etc, u will need fast lens, fast af and likely weather sealed pro level gear.

if u like most of us here, want to enjoy photography as hobby but dont want to spend too much $$$, non pro dslr from past few years till now will give very good image quality even at high iso. difference i see are :

1) pixels count, more pixel doesnt means better image quality, but just means it can print big, A2 and above. if u dont print that size, even a 6mp dslr will do.

2) video recording.

for lens, yes, pro level lens typically are sharper, more contrasty, af faster, weather sealed, build in image stablelizer (not all though, some stablelizer are on the image sensor itself).


but most important i feel is the technics, understanding & applying basics of photography, constant critique on ur own photos, looking and understanding why magazines selected those images printed & how were they taken.

I have a dedicated video camera for video, and I don't print big. Which is why both cameras will do equally well for my needs right?

Should I just flip a coin? But nobody does that when buying something that's a few hundred dollars !

 

[denniskee]

I have a dedicated video camera for video, and I don't print big. Which is why both cameras will do equally well for my needs right?

Should I just flip a coin? But nobody does that when buying something that's a few hundred dollars !

alamak, no need to use coin lar, see which one cheaper & also ur buddy uses what system than decide lor. my buddy & me uses same system, so we can exchange gears when needed. like that cheaper mah, no need everything also buy.:thumbsup:

 

[Snowcrash]

I did ask the guy about this too, but the price was like $780 ?

The 1000D is $709, D3000 is $720 ish.

So not keen on the Pentax which is more expensive.

I'm a Canon SLR/DSLR user. Some say Pentax Kx is better than Canon next range 500D or Nikon D5000.

And it's available in other colours other than black.

If I will to start over again for entry DSLR camera, I will consider Pentax.
If Full frame, Sony A850.
Why? Value for money.

 

[zaren]

Hi, I've actually done quite some homework on this and at first I settled on the Nikon D3000 as it's newer and so has more stuff like more focusing points.

However I went down to SLR Revo and the guy there told me that he'd recommend that I get the Canon 1000D instead as its cheaper in the long run to get lenses for it. As the Nikon D3000 does not have a focusing motor in the body, but the D90 has. So my choices of lenses will be limited. Then after more research, I realise that the EOS series from Canon do not have focusing motor in the body either. So why did he say Canon would be cheaper?

Also he said that Canon focuses faster and is easier to use. The prices between this two is like $10 so really it just which is better.

I intend to use it to take photos of my baby indoors (bad lighting), which my PnS really sucks at, and also hope to join the photo outings that I see so many being organized in this forum to learn more about photography.

I am only looking at this two models, even though I understand for a bit more I can get a much better camera like the 500D, D90 etc. But I'm a girl who easily takes interest in hobbies and loses interest just as quickly so I need to keep the cost down to a minimum for a start.

focusing speed, camera responsiveness

1000d has faster focusing speed. full AF shutter lag is 0.16 sec while D3000's shutter lag is 0.26 sec (from Imaging Resource). 1000d also starts up faster (0.3 sec) compared to D3000 (0.7 sec)

D3000 is faster in continuous shooting mode (2.5 frames per sec vs 1.6 frames per sec for large JPEG, after the initial 3 fps burst of continuous JPEGS)


lens choices

if you only intend to get one more lens for low-light shooting of your baby indoors, then the cheapest option would be the canon EF 50mm/1.8 ($125) for the 1000d. the nikon 50/1.8 AFD does not AF on the d3000.

for $350, you can get the 35mm/1.8 AFS for nikon which works great on the D3000 and gives you a more useful standard focal length of 50mm (35mm equivalent). 1000d users have to pay more for the EF 35mm/2 which costs $550.

For a medium telephoto prime lens that gives superb "bokeh" shots for portraiture, 1000d users can get the excellent EF 85/1.8 for $550, while the nikon 85/1.8 AFD (same price) does not AF on the D3000.

If you buy 3rd party lenses, e.g. Sigma 30mm/1.4 which can AF on both 1000d or D3000, then there's no difference in price ($600). Ditto for the Tamron 17-50/2.8 ($500)

 

[Sispecho]

How about OLympus e-620 second hand? its cheaper 2nd hand and it comes with good kit lenses.....

 

[daredevil123]

So ermm now canon don't have the motor too ?

Anyway so basically, I think that both cameras
1) will do what I need it to do
2) look the same aesthetically to me
3) price is the same
4) equally user friendly ( i mean user friendly by how easy is it to change the shutter speed, aperture etc. I hate digging into menus to change one setting. i like to have dedicated buttons for everything. on my computers I am a keyboard shortcut freak. best if I don't need to touch my mouse when I code. )
5) if I will get a lens it will probably only be one more
6) definitely getting a flash for the camera

so given that both are so similar, I'm just looking for something to push me towards one side. Can't possibly buy both of them

the guy used the cost of lens to push me towards canon, which is why I am mentioning it. I did not ask him "which one has cheaper lens?" I asked him "between 1000D and D3000 which one will you recommend me to get?"
ps: the SLR Revo is up until now the most patient and willing to share guy I have met. You should see how black the face of the guy at Song Brothers was. He asked me to get a Sony and simply said "Sony is the best." :dunno: no reason given.

I love to learn how to use the camera, I love exploring gadgets, which is why I hate the presets on my PnS. How boring. I read the D3000 has this user guide thing, but I did not see it on the actual camera so I don't think it will hinder me unless I went to look for it purposely.

Also I primarily want to take 'bokeh' shots, which refers to those shots where the subject is in focus and everything is blurred right. I understand this has nothing to do with the camera body but more with the lens, which brings me to considering buying one additional lens for it.

Canon has a bigger range in lenses, with some of the lens being slightly cheaper. But do note that:

1. The lenses that Canon has more will not apply to you. They are specialized and very expensive prime lenses.
2. Some of Canon lenses are cheaper but quality is not as good as the Nikon equivalent (eg. the 50mm/1.8)
3. Nikon cameras can mount lenses very old lenses all the way from 1959 till now. That is why the built-in motor was developed, to add AF and at the same time allow old lenses to be mounted.

Also the Nikon D3000 do not have a in-body AF motor, meaning:

1. You can only AF with AF-S lenses (you will probably never buy a AF-I lens)
2. Popular lenses like 50/1.8, 85/1.8 are all AF-D.

So a brand having more lenses and some cheaper lenses available is a good thing, but it may not apply to you. You may never ever use those lenses in the first place.

Some of Nikon's lenses are so legendary, that many Canon users are buying Nikon lenses and attaching them to their Canon camera bodies using an adapter.

So don't think too much of the brand. Focus on which camera you like more. Feel them, hold them, play with their menus, buttons. And get the one you are most comfortable with.

BTW. If you ask me, I think both 1000D and D3000 are severely limited in functionality. I would hesitate to recommend either one. But remember both are capable of good pictures. I had a D40x myself and used it quite a bit till I sold it and got myself a D90.

Seriously, the best buy on the market now is Pentax K-x. It is slightly more expensive than the D3000 and 1000D. But its performance is at the level of Nikon D5000 and Canon 550D. You cannot judge a camera on the price solely.

Overall recommendation:

Ditch both the D3000 and 1000D. Get Pentax K-x, Sony A380 new, used 500D, D90, D80

 

[skyunicorn]

Canon has a bigger range in lenses, with some of the lens being slightly cheaper. But do note that:

1. The lenses that Canon has more will not apply to you. They are specialized and very expensive prime lenses.
2. Some of Canon lenses are cheaper but quality is not as good as the Nikon equivalent (eg. the 50mm/1.8)
3. Nikon cameras can mount lenses very old lenses all the way from 1959 till now. That is why the built-in motor was developed, to add AF and at the same time allow old lenses to be mounted.

Also the Nikon D3000 do not have a in-body AF motor, meaning:

1. You can only AF with AF-S lenses (you will probably never buy a AF-I lens)
2. Popular lenses like 50/1.8, 85/1.8 are all AF-D.

So a brand having more lenses and some cheaper lenses available is a good thing, but it may not apply to you. You may never ever use those lenses in the first place.

Some of Nikon's lenses are so legendary, that many Canon users are buying Nikon lenses and attaching them to their Canon camera bodies using an adapter.

So don't think too much of the brand. Focus on which camera you like more. Feel them, hold them, play with their menus, buttons. And get the one you are most comfortable with.

BTW. If you ask me, I think both 1000D and D3000 are severely limited in functionality. I would hesitate to recommend either one. But remember both are capable of good pictures. I had a D40x myself and used it quite a bit till I sold it and got myself a D90.

Seriously, the best buy on the market now is Pentax K-x. It is slightly more expensive than the D3000 and 1000D. But its performance is at the level of Nikon D5000 and Canon 550D. You cannot judge a camera on the price solely.

Overall recommendation:

Ditch both the D3000 and 1000D. Get Pentax K-x, Sony A380 new, used 500D, D90, D80

thanks alot for all of your very informative replies.

How much would an equivalent of the 50mm/1.8 lens cost for the pentax?

Also since pentax not as popular I scared when I go for outings nobody can help me when I have a question.

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

thanks alot for all of your very informative replies.

How much would an equivalent of the 50mm/1.8 lens cost for the pentax?

Also since pentax not as popular I scared when I go for outings nobody can help me when I have a question.

It's true that a lot of the general outings are 'dominated' by Canon and Nikon users. Even Sony users are few and far between. I know that a number of the different-brand users have their own specific outings. For example, the Pentaxians have regular outings and you can join them even if you're not a Pentax user (I think). But since a lot of them would be Pentax users, you need not fear that nobody can help you with some camera operation problem.

 

[rhino123]

Actually all the stated camera shared almost the same spec and actually almost the same IQ. As for the internal motor in the body, Canon would not be suffering from it, because all canon lens (EF and EF-S) had micro motor in them, so no problem.

That say... however you shouldn't worried about the internal motor or stuff like that... because the camera do not have internal motor in it... just get a lens with internal motor... simple as that.

The only thing that matters boils down to cost, feel and your own personal liking.

Cost is obviously important, if you are not sure whether you wanted to keep the hobby. Get a cheap body and lens, and shoot. If not going to keep, still can sell them off.

Another two important points are the feel the camera gave you and your own personal liking (user interface, ease of use(according to yourself), etc).

Feeling and your personal liking is very subjective and I believe no one here can advise you on these things. So the best thing is... go down to the shop, get whatever DSLR that caught your eyes and test them up. If you are happy with whatever model, then get that model.

Hope it help.

 

[sephiroth]

Regarding in lens and body motor:

Canon dslr does not have body motor, but ALL Canon af lens have lens motor, so Canon dslr will never have a case of af lens not working with dslr.

Nikon however have a lot of af lenses that don't hv lens motor, so some nikon cameras like d3000 and d5000 will encounter lens issues, when they buy an autofocus lens yet can't af...

I believe only nikon dslr will hv such issues, of autofocus lens not working with some bodies.

All other brands camera bodies will work with all autofocus lens without such limitations.

If u wanna buy nikon, choose one model which has body motor so that u wont be limited by it and can use all lenses.

 

[joeltan111]

Well, if you are really wanting to get something usable in the long run, i recommend that you do what i said in my last post- wait and see. Canon and Nikon are very probably going to come out with one or two new cameras in the near future. How about waiting a while longer and seeing what might come out?

 

[cleonbus]

Pentax KX?

Dun confuse TS lah.KX is film while K-x is digital leh:bsmilie:

 

[skyunicorn]

Well, if you are really wanting to get something usable in the long run, i recommend that you do what i said in my last post- wait and see. Canon and Nikon are very probably going to come out with one or two new cameras in the near future. How about waiting a while longer and seeing what might come out?

Actually I'm doing my research now, but will only be getting the camera after sept 13.

If by then nothing new is out, I will go for whatever is available then, because I can't wait to start practicing taking photos !

 

[pinholecam]

thanks alot for all of your very informative replies.

How much would an equivalent of the 50mm/1.8 lens cost for the pentax?

Also since pentax not as popular I scared when I go for outings nobody can help me when I have a question.

Pentax only has a 50/1.4 at ~$546. It is of a better build quality and faster (f1.4) than the 50/1.8s that you mentioned.
There are loads of manual focus 50/1.4, 50/1.7(~$120), 50/2 (~$65) in the 2nd hand market if you do not mind manual focusing (in which again, Pentax does offer AF confirmation).
The other options are the FA35/2 (~$700+) or the Sigma 30/1.4 ($750)
The high ISO performance of the Kx will help you for indoor shots, but I would advise you to more importantly learn how to take advantage of available light (eg. window light ). Large aperture lenses (any brand) of any type is a double edged sword. It allows you to shoot in lower light conditions, but the shallower depth of field can mean more missed/blur/OOF shots.


As for Pentax user base. You can check out the sub-forum yourself
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=76

There is always a monthly gathering for chit chat, sharing and photography. This has been one of the long and consistent brand based user gatherings on CS, though users of other brands are welcome as well (there are a few regulars in fact). There will be one on the 14thAug
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736700
Do bring along whatever camera you have and check out the cameras/lenses/etc yourself.


Pentax history and legacy is here :
http://www.photoxels.com/history_pentax.html
The first Japanese SLR manufacturer with many firsts through its long history.