Newbies need help right?

[leowyien]

i just think some of the members in clubsnap are too jaded. they see the same questions asked over and over again and that could possibly explain their response - "refer to the faq or do a search".

why not leave the answering to someone who is willing to help? sometimes you get different perspectives. i have to admit i actually learn new things from some of the discussions. i am not saying newbies ask the perfect questions. however this forum is about photography and sharing, not teaching newbies how to search.

look at this forum vs other photography forums e.g. fred miranda. the experience is completely different.

PPL here are more bonded

 

[Yappy]

A work senario is totally an inappropriate comparison.

That said, if a new staff of mine keeps on asking how to do this and how to do that, I can guaranty you that this staff will not last long. It is not a newbie or senior thing. It is something to do with initiative, and the ability to learn on their own.

Back to CS, and yes, it is true this is a social enviroment and not work, but, I do often see stupid questions, follow up by more stupid questions. Stupid questions can be easily clasified as questions where the answer is obvious, readily available, and does not make sense.

Yes, one could say, we should just avoid these asker of these stupid questions, but then, why should we. OR conversely, we could say, please dont ask stupid question, or a stupid question deserves many stupid answers/responses.

No question is a stupid question.

"If you ask, you are only a fool a day and if you don't ask, you are a fool forever!"

 

[Yappy]

To you it is a stupid question and to him it is a doubt!

Should he ask?

 

[allenleonhart]

To you it is a stupid question and to him it is a doubt!

Should he ask?

he shld google first, then ask.

give a man an answer, he survives a day.
teach him how to google, well... he survives many many days

 

[edutilos-]

To you it is a stupid question and to him it is a doubt!

Should he ask?

To many students in school they have many doubts when it comes to doing assignments and research projects sometimes.

What's their first stop (no, answer this seriously)?

forums.researchprojects.com, or Google?

 

[edutilos-]

When I want to find out something, where is my first stop?

Ask everywhere on Internet? Or to just search for it first?

 

[brapodam]

When I want to find out something, where is my first stop?

Ask everywhere on Internet? Or to just search for it first?

As I said before, not everyone thinks alike and will straightaway go to Google to search for answers before asking. Telling them (nicely) to Google would be a much better method than the classic LMGTFY which certain members here use to boost their e-ego, which is unnecessarily condescending and doesn't speak much about the maturity of the user posting that kind of link.

 

[edutilos-]

As I said before, not everyone thinks alike and will straightaway go to Google to search for answers before asking. Telling them (nicely) to Google would be a much better method than the classic LMGTFY which certain members here use to boost their e-ego, which is unnecessarily condescending and doesn't speak much about the maturity of the user posting that kind of link.

I think if the user has proven to be a thorough imbeceile, LMGTFY is fine.

If members just unleash that right away, then it's not so nice.

I'm sure you've seen it before. First it starts with "what camera should I buy?"

After some replies and suggestions, along with the model answer that it depends on him, he should try it out in the shops, read up on reviews with links to sites given, he next asks...

"Which shops should I buy it from?"

Then after some kind-hearted people continue, he will ask "Where is TK Foto? Where is Orient Photo? Which is the best place to buy????"

This is done with a bit of exaggeration... But I'm sure you get my drift. I personally find it most puzzling when members registered since 2002-2004 ask that... 6-8 years on the forums... Certainly you would have seen the more common topics...?

 

[nitewalk]

I think if the user has proven to be a thorough imbeceile, LMGTFY is fine.

If members just unleash that right away, then it's not so nice.

I'm sure you've seen it before. First it starts with "what camera should I buy?"

After some replies and suggestions, along with the model answer that it depends on him, he should try it out in the shops, read up on reviews with links to sites given, he next asks...

"Which shops should I buy it from?"

Then after some kind-hearted people continue, he will ask "Where is TK Foto? Where is Orient Photo? Which is the best place to buy????"

This is done with a bit of exaggeration... But I'm sure you get my drift. I personally find it most puzzling when members registered since 2002-2004 ask that... 6-8 years on the forums... Certainly you would have seen the more common topics...?

Not everyone is good at googling. U might find that unbelievable after all its just typing. Some are not tech savvy and not familiar with searching things on search engines.

I get your point and if one turns up with a qn like where is tk foto ya that is a little annoying. I'd b too shy to ask anyway. Haha. But i recall seeing some who just blast the newbie and this person consistenty camps in newbie section. I think he toned down abit after receiving some flak over his attitude.

The bottomline is we shd have an inclusive community here to an acceptable extent. If one suspects the person doesnt google, why cant we just tell them how to google, if one is bothered at all to do that. What joy do we derive from blasting a lazy bugger, if assuming that person is purely lazy.

Before i started out i onve posted in pentax section, about pentax cameras. I consider myself lucky to meet rather nice folks there. Couldve been blasted on hindsight. Was i lazy? No. I was overwhelmed by the load of info i had to read with zero knowledge of photography terms. What the hell is dof, i wondered at that time.

 

[Astroben]

Knowing how to google is indeed, nice.
I just know what is LMGTFY

Hope more ppl learn googling before posting doubts, not nice being soot by fellow forumers, directly or indirectly.

 

[Deadpoet]

Stupid questions will solicite stupid answers. Yes, there are stupid questions.

Stupid question is one that the party asking did not think before openning mouth. If the party asking had given some thoughts to the questions, it problably could answer itself or provide the party answering the question information to give an intelligent response.

All too often, we see those what camera should I buy questions. That is a stupid question.

A few years back there was a similar question along these lines - What PnS should I get? I am buyiung it for my 14 year old god daughter. It has to be something small, compact and sturdy, as 14 years old are not going to be very careful when handling anything. Mega pixels will not be a big concern, medium ranage zoon will be nice, image quality as long as it is good will be fine. If there are color options for the shell, that would be good too.

Now, that was an intelligent question.

As to those advocation that we all shold be touchy feely nice to those asking stupid questions, are you proposing advocating suggestion thinking dreaming of utopia?

Sorry to break your heart. We are far from it. Singapore is not, Asia is not, the world is not. May light years away in a far far away planet, the inhabitants there have, but not hear on earth.

Then, what? When we see stupid questions, most will just roll eyes and move on. Some will pas some snide comments, some will pass some stupid answers, a few will try to answer and eventually give up, very few will continue to be helpful ... that is life and that is reality.

 

[PaulKami]

Then, what? When we see stupid questions, most will just roll eyes and move on. Some will pas some snide comments, some will pass some stupid answers, a few will try to answer and eventually give up, very few will continue to be helpful ... that is life and that is reality.

Utopia doesn't exist as we know it... In fact, we're far from building one if we continue to portray such 'snide comments', worse when people starts to imitate it... How one will find this place a better place to browse with 70-80% of the remarks passed as 'sarcastic'?

This thread is not really a complain thread but rather, I find it more towards a reflection on how Clubsnap is moving ahead. Sure, there are threads around you can coin it as 'stupid', and yes, there are many people who agree with you to some extend. However, the more important factor is how one approaches such thread, and not merely go in and say "Google it, do your homework". Eventually, I also find this kind of comment stupid, literally... (look around and see how often this stupid comment surfaces).

Sure, stupid thread doesn't make one look good at all, so are the stupid posts. But it's the question of "what are we going to do about it?". Merely accepting the 'facts' are not enough. Don't give the excuses of "here's the fact and nothing will change it", at this point of time, if we can, little by little, we are going to change it.

Thought I'd like to make some comments on the C&C section. Many a times we do see photo critics that are rather not tactful. But as we all know, it's part and parcel of learning.

I'd be glad if someone goes "This is ****! What are you taking? Did you consider composition, exposure, direction of light or what? Can you please go and re-think on what you've taken based on what I've said?". At least he gives me the idea that something went wrong, related to composition, exposure and such... Now, what if someone tells me this "You've taken low-key before? Can you please google what's low-key?" What do you think you've helped that person? It's a joke really, especially it comes from a SM.

My opinion, if you wanna help, feel free to help. If you don't wanna help, feel free not to. Why the sarcastic remark spoiling other people's day, and at the same time turning this place into something rather unpleasant to be in? It helps no one other than yourself, if you ever feel happier making such sarcastic remark...

 

[nitewalk]

Utopia doesn't exist as we know it... In fact, we're far from building one if we continue to portray such 'snide comments', worse when people starts to imitate it... How one will find this place a better place to browse with 70-80% of the remarks passed as 'sarcastic'?

This thread is not really a complain thread but rather, I find it more towards a reflection on how Clubsnap is moving ahead. Sure, there are threads around you can coin it as 'stupid', and yes, there are many people who agree with you to some extend. However, the more important factor is how one approaches such thread, and not merely go in and say "Google it, do your homework". Eventually, I also find this kind of comment stupid, literally... (look around and see how often this stupid comment surfaces).

Sure, stupid thread doesn't make one look good at all, so are the stupid posts. But it's the question of "what are we going to do about it?". Merely accepting the 'facts' are not enough. Don't give the excuses of "here's the fact and nothing will change it", at this point of time, if we can, little by little, we are going to change it.

Thought I'd like to make some comments on the C&C section. Many a times we do see photo critics that are rather not tactful. But as we all know, it's part and parcel of learning.

I'd be glad if someone goes "This is ****! What are you taking? Did you consider composition, exposure, direction of light or what? Can you please go and re-think on what you've taken based on what I've said?". At least he gives me the idea that something went wrong, related to composition, exposure and such... Now, what if someone tells me this "You've taken low-key before? Can you please google what's low-key?" What do you think you've helped that person? It's a joke really, especially it comes from a SM.

My opinion, if you wanna help, feel free to help. If you don't wanna help, feel free not to. Why the sarcastic remark spoiling other people's day, and at the same time turning this place into something rather unpleasant to be in? It helps no one other than yourself, if you ever feel happier making such sarcastic remark...

Exactly, u can choose to ignore. Sarcastic remarks have no substance and worse still "stupid answers". If one derives joys from the misery of others, who did not mean to inflict misery by asking a "stupid question" then that is as much we can speak of of the person's character. One sympathizes then.

@deadpoet If you think a qn is "stupid", why answer it with a stupid ans? Its a pity to say we dont live in an utopia and hence it is "okay" to be mean. Of course, we can't change anyone. If that is your belief then good for you. We ought to have more substance in us to resort to giving "stupid answers". If you think you're superior, emphatize and help, not ruin.

 

[wasak2000]

:thumbsup:

Utopia doesn't exist as we know it... In fact, we're far from building one if we continue to portray such 'snide comments', worse when people starts to imitate it... How one will find this place a better place to browse with 70-80% of the remarks passed as 'sarcastic'?

This thread is not really a complain thread but rather, I find it more towards a reflection on how Clubsnap is moving ahead. Sure, there are threads around you can coin it as 'stupid', and yes, there are many people who agree with you to some extend. However, the more important factor is how one approaches such thread, and not merely go in and say "Google it, do your homework". Eventually, I also find this kind of comment stupid, literally... (look around and see how often this stupid comment surfaces).

Sure, stupid thread doesn't make one look good at all, so are the stupid posts. But it's the question of "what are we going to do about it?". Merely accepting the 'facts' are not enough. Don't give the excuses of "here's the fact and nothing will change it", at this point of time, if we can, little by little, we are going to change it.

Thought I'd like to make some comments on the C&C section. Many a times we do see photo critics that are rather not tactful. But as we all know, it's part and parcel of learning.

I'd be glad if someone goes "This is ****! What are you taking? Did you consider composition, exposure, direction of light or what? Can you please go and re-think on what you've taken based on what I've said?". At least he gives me the idea that something went wrong, related to composition, exposure and such... Now, what if someone tells me this "You've taken low-key before? Can you please google what's low-key?" What do you think you've helped that person? It's a joke really, especially it comes from a SM.

My opinion, if you wanna help, feel free to help. If you don't wanna help, feel free not to. Why the sarcastic remark spoiling other people's day, and at the same time turning this place into something rather unpleasant to be in? It helps no one other than yourself, if you ever feel happier making such sarcastic remark...

 

[SnagIt]

Utopia doesn't exist as we know it... In fact, we're far from building one if we continue to portray such 'snide comments', worse when people starts to imitate it... How one will find this place a better place to browse with 70-80% of the remarks passed as 'sarcastic'?

This thread is not really a complain thread but rather, I find it more towards a reflection on how Clubsnap is moving ahead. Sure, there are threads around you can coin it as 'stupid', and yes, there are many people who agree with you to some extend. However, the more important factor is how one approaches such thread, and not merely go in and say "Google it, do your homework". Eventually, I also find this kind of comment stupid, literally... (look around and see how often this stupid comment surfaces).

Sure, stupid thread doesn't make one look good at all, so are the stupid posts. But it's the question of "what are we going to do about it?". Merely accepting the 'facts' are not enough. Don't give the excuses of "here's the fact and nothing will change it", at this point of time, if we can, little by little, we are going to change it.

Thought I'd like to make some comments on the C&C section. Many a times we do see photo critics that are rather not tactful. But as we all know, it's part and parcel of learning.

I'd be glad if someone goes "This is ****! What are you taking? Did you consider composition, exposure, direction of light or what? Can you please go and re-think on what you've taken based on what I've said?". At least he gives me the idea that something went wrong, related to composition, exposure and such... Now, what if someone tells me this "You've taken low-key before? Can you please google what's low-key?" What do you think you've helped that person? It's a joke really, especially it comes from a SM.

My opinion, if you wanna help, feel free to help. If you don't wanna help, feel free not to. Why the sarcastic remark spoiling other people's day, and at the same time turning this place into something rather unpleasant to be in? It helps no one other than yourself, if you ever feel happier making such sarcastic remark...

+ 1111 :thumbsup:

To be frank CS is not the only forum I lurk around. I often hang out on some flickr groups and I learnt that CS culture is weird. Probably not due to CS but some individuals here. I hope it be the latter. On those flickr groups I see people are more lenient towards newbie questions. I see the same questions asked again and again but none of replies is like "Please google it". Instead, referrence links to the old threads are suggested. The replies are far more useful than just "google it yourself".

C&C given to newbies also dishearten me. Sarcastic remark without why, tips to improve is just another way representing yourself as an ass to the world. Newbie or not, that's definitely not the way to treat a human being

 

[kei1309]

C&C given to newbies also dishearten me. Sarcastic remark without why, tips to improve is just another way representing yourself as an ass to the world. Newbie or not, that's definitely not the way to treat a human being

the way you put it seems like you mean that people with sarcastic remarks and people who try to give tips to help are the same; that is, a**es.

i think i'll help you rephrase this for those who'll misinterpret:

"Sarcastic remarks without reason, no tips to improve or help given is what makes you present yourself as an a** to the world."

 

[allenleonhart]

Not everyone is good at googling. U might find that unbelievable after all its just typing. Some are not tech savvy and not familiar with searching things on search engines.

there is a reason why i wrote this....

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718823

its a good process to learn on how to search for very indepth stuff. not all the tricks are in it though...... but i doubt anyone sees the guides anyways...

 

[kei1309]

there is a reason why i wrote this....

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718823

its a good process to learn on how to search for very indepth stuff. not all the tricks are in it though...... but i doubt anyone sees the guides anyways...

the next thing you know... people will be asking you how to find the guides and stickies

but the thing is. be patient.

love is kind. love is patient

 

[eleveninth]

holy hell this threads still going on? LOL i must have struck a nerve

 

[Leong23]

Any kind soul can help these newbie in their question?

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6905479#post6905479

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836522