Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

[creampuff]

no problems..just getting the facts right tat's all..

then i like to pose a question to the floor.

will it make a difference if the assembly worker is:

a) a Japanese, paid USD$50 an hour, has gone thru in college/university in an established education system, certified and trained according to Japanese's QC system and in-house training, only then be able to handle the lens.

or

b) a vietnamese, paid USD$5 an hour, similarly educated in a vietnam college/university, certified and trained according to Japanese's QC system, translated from Japanese and in-house training, only then be able to handle the lens.

:bsmilie:

What a stereotype... so let me add...

Japanese worker is who is getting old with tired eyes reaching retirement age...
vs
Vietnamese worker who is young with nimble fingers, and good eyesight and can work faster and prepared to do work harder... under Japanese supervision...

 

[creampuff]

Interesting that some of those who appear to play down what the Pentax USA President has stated aren't even Pentax users. Hilarious! :think:

 

[ed9119]

OMG...... this is going to affect the quality of your images ..........NOT !!!!

 

[watchthewaves]

If you think about it, Toyota's problems like the sticking accelerator pedal and the floor mat entrapping the accelerator pedal are not problems caused by where the vehicle is manufactured, but rather, they are design flaws. Factory QC would not be able to catch these problems.

 

[darrrrrrrrrr]

If you think about it, Toyota's problems like the sticking accelerator pedal and the floor mat entrapping the accelerator pedal are not problems caused by where the vehicle is manufactured, but rather, they are design flaws. Factory QC would not be able to catch these problems.

Just like Pentax's choice to use micromotor in SDM lenses. Unless there is some manufacturing flaw in the motors themselves, though we don't know where these are made.

 

[reyreina]

Interesting to note how some people just outrightly bash the assurance given from a key rep. When they keep quiet about certain problems and issues, you complain, when they actually make an effort to provide assurance, you also complain. For myself, i believe when key rep speaks up, some reputation is on the line, and thus they are usually conveying the true messages.

 

[clioboy]

What a stereotype... so let me add...

Japanese worker is who is getting old with tired eyes reaching retirement age...
vs
Vietnamese worker who is young with nimble fingers, and good eyesight and can work faster and prepared to do work harder... under Japanese supervision...

hahaha..who is stereotyping? by stereotyping Japanese as old and tired eyes??
Bro, i am only stating facts that Japanese earns more than vietnamese that's all.

i am not saying MIJ or AIV any good or bad.

Just be objective and don't lap up anything said or otherwise suggested.

Anyway, assembly is only one part of the story..the source of parts like motors and glass is very impt too..

 

[clioboy]

Interesting that some of those who appear to play down what the Pentax USA President has stated aren't even Pentax users. Hilarious! :think:

i am a canon user..if canon come out and say such things..i will also not believe them..
i posted to add some balance into the conversation. If you want all Pentax users to believe that there will be no difference and all should believe the angmoh, be it.
But we are entitled to our opinion and I didn't comment on Pentax's reliability or optics, but just in general how I see such products and their place of manufacture are portrayed and played up or down depending on your alignment.

you are like saying Malaysians can't comment on Singaporean Policies and vice versus..

same differences, bro.

 

[clioboy]

Interesting to note how some people just outrightly bash the assurance given from a key rep. When they keep quiet about certain problems and issues, you complain, when they actually make an effort to provide assurance, you also complain. For myself, i believe when key rep speaks up, some reputation is on the line, and thus they are usually conveying the true messages.

or trying to cover up inadequacies, cuts both ways.

 

[clioboy]

If you think about it, Toyota's problems like the sticking accelerator pedal and the floor mat entrapping the accelerator pedal are not problems caused by where the vehicle is manufactured, but rather, they are design flaws. Factory QC would not be able to catch these problems.

are u telling me they don't test drive the cars before they are sent out to buyers??

if u read more...there is a history of USA's Toyota Reps bargaining with the USA Gov to ignore the issues and cover up the problems.

and as for the floor mat entrapping..i get it too..i just pulled the mat away from the pedal..

 

[clioboy]

There will always be ever so slight variations between copies of a particular lens because lens elements are made and assembled in batches. This is true irrespective of where a lens is made. Even though there is production automation, lens assembly still involves a considerable amount of human involvement and testing. As long as the lenses meet the QC limits, they should be fine. But like anything manufactured, there can and will be ever so slight variances between copies.

Independent testing is great, but even the most exhaustive on-line reviews and tests only test at most one copy of the lens. So given that lenses are made in batches at different manufacturing dates, can the so called reviews be really indicative of every copy of that particular lens. In philosophy this is the fallacy of generalizing from a single instance, so take those reviews with a pinch of salt.

The fact remains that a key Pentax representative has come out in the open to challenge the issue openly. Sure he could be saying there is no difference because he wants to assure Pentax users and has a vested interest to get them to buy MIV lenses. But then again he could have said nothing and allowed the unsubstantiated claims of the supposed superiority of MIJ lenses to circulate. Pentax shifted production but didn't change the product. Perhaps those who doubt his conclusions should come up with their own MIJ vs MIV tests because until anybody can come up with results otherwise, his assertions are pretty much there for everyone to see.



FYI local Prius owners also got recall. I should know as I have a friend who drives one.
http://www.toyotasingapore.com.sg/special_prius.asp
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/business/2010-02/09/c_13169960.htm
http://www.asiaone.com/Motoring/News/Story/A1Story20100209-197697.html
http://www.cnngo.com/singapore/none/toyota-prius-gets-recalled-singapore-815099
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Money/Story/STIStory_488216.html

of cos of cos..only prius here..not the entire fleet mah

 

[clioboy]

i am a canon user..if canon come out and say such things..i will also not believe them..
i posted to add some balance into the conversation. If you want all Pentax users to believe that there will be no difference and all should believe the angmoh, be it.
But we are entitled to our opinion and I didn't comment on Pentax's reliability or optics, but just in general how I see such products and their place of manufacture are portrayed and played up or down depending on your alignment.

you are like saying Malaysians can't comment on Singaporean Policies and vice versus..

same differences, bro.

sorry if i riled anyone with my comments and efforts, maybe too cynical, to inject some balance and objectivity into this thread.

Maybe the Pentax's Boss is correct..but just like Feddie Mac's bosses, they are right until the **** hit the fan. But then that is another story.

 

[Reportage]

just a thought....the samples the prez is getting and testing is random from the shelves or "specially hand picked" one?

 

[reyreina]

or trying to cover up inadequacies, cuts both ways.

If i'm a CEO, i'll ask the Hd QC or marketing dept to cover up inadequacies, not myself. In case the "bomb" explodes, i will not be directly under scrutiny even though i still have to shoulder the overall blame.

This is also the reason why these high fliers are always more neutral sounding in their speeches, unless to ascertain a fact. Make yourself look bad and you'll destroy your own future postings

Do you agree this makes better sense?

What i am implying is, should there be covering up of inefficiencies, the respective dept heads should take full responsibility first. Unfortunately, when there are joyous results to announce, usually the overall in charge steps in... Seems rather unfair but isn't this the case in most companies? In fact, it's easier for the general public to remember one person (CEO/president) and his achievements rather than remembering each individual who did well.

 

[reyreina]

i am a canon user..if canon come out and say such things..i will also not believe them..
i posted to add some balance into the conversation. If you want all Pentax users to believe that there will be no difference and all should believe the angmoh, be it.
But we are entitled to our opinion and I didn't comment on Pentax's reliability or optics, but just in general how I see such products and their place of manufacture are portrayed and played up or down depending on your alignment.

you are like saying Malaysians can't comment on Singaporean Policies and vice versus..

same differences, bro.

To be fair, one can also say what creampuff meant was that, usually in photog forums, criticisms mostly come from non-user of the brand. He did not imply that A brand users cannot comment on B affairs, or malaysians on singapore's politics. In this case, it is true isn't it? And like you mentioned, everyone are entitled to their own opinion and he gave his.

 

[iCandy]

sorry if i riled anyone with my comments and efforts, maybe too cynical, to inject some balance and objectivity into this thread.

Maybe the Pentax's Boss is correct..but just like Feddie Mac's bosses, they are right until the **** hit the fan. But then that is another story.

are you saying there is no objectivity and balance in the posts by all the users in this thread so far?

we are not stupid. while we do hope that what he says is true, of course we know there is a small chance that he is trying to cover his ass and the AIV products are inferior. that was a general unspoken understanding and we did not see the need to go bananas over it when we can make a conclusion no more accurate for ourselves.

if the AIV products are really that inferior, time will tell and whatever he says now will be of no use. but crucially what he needs to do is to ease people's doubts first. it is a logical act and a natural marketing technique used all over the world.

 

[pinholecam]

So long as the manufacturing standards/materials/tests are followed, the variation should not be too big. It could be Ned Bunnell doing the comparisons, it could be me, conclusion would be the same. Only when the test limits are changed would the potential that MIJ and MIV lenses be glaringly different.

 

[flowerpot]

so much discussion...:bsmilie:

MIJ, AIV or whatever...test the lens happy then buy lor...

 

[neon2]

It may not be the difference of MIJ or MIV, but the handling of freight operators that send the assembled lenses from Vietnam to Japan. In the process of shipping, there can be a small percentage of goods being damaged during delivery in bulk. I have heard some stories of damaged goods at the bottom layers due to stacking.

 

[watchthewaves]

are u telling me they don't test drive the cars before they are sent out to buyers??

if u read more...there is a history of USA's Toyota Reps bargaining with the USA Gov to ignore the issues and cover up the problems.

and as for the floor mat entrapping..i get it too..i just pulled the mat away from the pedal..

This is really getting OT, so I will make one final comment on this Toyota analogy. If you care to read their recall statements, you'll realise that the sticking accelerator issue comes about after much use (so they claim). And the floor mat entrapment issue happens because the mat can trap the accelerator pedal and there is no brake override. All these things will happen regardless of factory QC and test driving the cars. So I fail to see how you try to link them up. As for the alleged attempts to cover up, again no link to design, manufacture or quality issues.

'nuff said.

*sits back and watches the show* :angel: