Looking for TFCD Photographer for Event

[jolene428]

Hihi All

Am looking for a TFCD Photographer (best with some portfolio) for a Mummies and Babies Event.

I am in the organizing committee for a group of mummies who delivered their babies in Nov 09 (and yes, I delivered my baby girl in Nov 09 too). We are thinking of organizing our first big scale (estimate 20 mummies + daddies with/without daddies) event in early March 2010.

We may also have many more Mummies and Babies event every month

However, we are running on low budget so as to get as many mummies + babies (and daddies if possible) to attend as possible.

Wonder if there is any photographer who will like to shoot the event on TFCD basis, do drop me an email k? My email is jolene428@gmail.com.

Other than the overall event shoot, we will hope to do 1 family photo + 1 baby individual shoot for each mummy at least to be kept for souvenir.

Who knows u can make your pick on some cute babies to do TFCD shoots with you in future ^^

We welcome more than one photographer for this event.

Hope to receive your email soon

Regards,
Jolene^^

 

[michaelng]

Emailed you. Is the event still on?

 

[ed9119]

You should be ashamed of yourself using cute little infants to get free photography services

surely you can pass the hat around a bit to pay for a photoshoot ?

if you have priced your event too low..... dont take it out on the photographer(s)

p/s I'm a parent myself and I find this nothing short of ridiculous and cheap

pp/s I doubt if the participating parents even realize that after they get their images, that the pics could possibly be used in ANY way that the photographer pleases

 

[Optodexine]

Well.. open market. I am sure someone will take up this offer. But tight budget or not... U should pay the guy something.. Also if you are willing to accept a tfcd photographer for your event.. do not expect much... if he has something else to do or if he has a paid job offer... he will bail on you.

 

[bblurrr]

there will always be eager beavers who will do "TFCD" for event...just for the chance to shoot and shoot. When I started photography, I have such urges too but did not succumb to it.

I do such "TFCD" event photography occasionally but usually ONLY for my company, my family and relatives and close friends.

 

[ed9119]

ha ha ha i can just imagine this....... maybe the TFCD photog takes pics and after honoring his end of the TFCD deal with event organizer ..... might go somewhere else online to start a "MILFs and their Babies" thread with the images because he has rights to the pics too ha ha ha!!!

 

[kiwi2]

Those guys who put down people looking for TFCD, Come On! Give these people a break!

What's wrong with TFCD? Must everything be in terms of Dollar$ and Cent$?? It's a mutual agreement between interested photographers and the ones who request for the TFCD. What is the offence that has been committed here? If for some strange reasons, such as if you are jealous or if you are a pro who charges a few hundred or thousand $ for a session of photographing babies, then don't reply to the request! Simple as that isn't it?!

For the same reason, I am amused and disgusted that some guys (some are notorious pros, you know who you are) put down those who charge a wedding shoot for a lot less than what is the "expected rate". What's your point? It only shows you who charge a lot more are threatened by those who charge less, which implies your skills are no better than the latter.

Photography is a hobby as well as a business. It's an open playground. Some like to shoot for free, some for a little money. Some are learning and need the experience. So what's wrong?

To those self-righteous full-time paid photographers: Tell me hand to heart you started out in your career charging people by the thousands? Nonsense. You probably also started out perhaps doing it for free also, if not pittance. Just that you manage to find family members, friends, colleagues to test waters, and then progress from there, instead of asking openly for "TFCD jobs". So please be mindful of where you came from b4 slashing others.

There are many real life scenarios here that also seem unjustified. Has anyone here ever given tuition free-lance as a "poor" undergrad or general worker trying to earn some pocket money? How much did you charge? What is your qualification? Are you a trained teacher? Obviously not for many of us. So should kids who need tuition be taught only by qualified teachers and are charged the rate that teachers are paid at school? In reality, it should be so. But the MOE never stipulated this. So who's complaining?

And there are many GPs nowadays who do aesthetics work on patients despite not having proper qualifications, leading death in a recent case of a man who went for liposuction. But the MOH can't be bothered to care about such cases. But who's complaining?

We don't want to reach a point where you got to Pay And Pay for everything you do in Singapore. How would you photographers like it if there is now a rule that says if you shoot in public parks and gardens, you have to register and pay? You don't like it right?

If doing TFCD is such a taboo, and CS wants to be a high loft photography services website, then state it clearly in your Rules and Regulations and remove posts that request for TFCD.

 

[ed9119]

hi kiwi2,

to clear the air, we have no issues with TFCD as everyone benefits and saves money. In this instance, TS is organizing an event and obviously trying to save costs or avoid a loss via asking for TFCD photogs.

TS in the past has also been one involved in MORE than one TFCD as a model, too without any problems.

Dont get me wrong...... you are very correct.... photographers who are interested can (and will) get in touch with the TS on their own accord. They will make their own decisions .... with open eyes..... nothing more, nothing less.

If I recall, this is a photography website (hmmm.... I guess that means looking after the interests of photographers and the community ) and a democracy (of sorts) where views from BOTH sides of the coin are expressed

Then those who are thinking of participating can make informed educated decisions, no ?

I hear your views and respect them and your points of retort should address the virtues of TFCD instead of lamblasting those who smell that something is not quite right with other intents camouflaged as TFCDs

So I ask that you understand the issue at hand....... this is NOT an anti-TFCD thing....... in fact we LOVE TFCD's...... if they are really TFCDs...


There MUST be at least 4-5 other threads currently in this forum with genuine TFCD requests....... you have to ask..... how come they do not get shot down ?

 

[indaybadiday]

You should be ashamed of yourself using cute little infants to get free photography services

surely you can pass the hat around a bit to pay for a photoshoot ?

if you have priced your event too low..... dont take it out on the photographer(s)

p/s I'm a parent myself and I find this nothing short of ridiculous and cheap

pp/s I doubt if the participating parents even realize that after they get their images, that the pics could possibly be used in ANY way that the photographer pleases

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[kiwi2]

Hi ed9119,

I'm a little confused here....cos there are some conflicting views expressed. Isn't TFCD about doing things that benefit both parties, namely, photographers and the subjects (babies in this case, models in other situations)? The photographer gets to practice his skills or satisfy the joy of photography, while the subjects get to keep the images.

I'm not sure about the part where you said "the TS wants to save costs and avoid loss". That's looking at the situation negatively. It implies that TS is cheapskate? But TFCD is done without any monetary charges involved. So are you supporting or disapproving TFCD? If you are saying jolene428 should be paying instead of trying to save costs and avoid loss, then it wouldn't be TFCD anymore isn't it?

As for my "lamblasting" those with a different opinion.... Wow, that's a strong word. I thought you were the one who "lamblasted" jolene428 first for asking for TFCD when I couldn't see what offence she has committed. I'm just trying to put things right.

That's why I said I'm kinda confused here. Is TFCD an offence in CS or is it supported? That's what I feel is not made clear.

If it is an offence, remove the posts. If not, why question and shame whoever that posts for such services?

 

[Wzierbovsky]

I'm in agreement with kiwi2 here. Babies and infants are tremendously fun to shoot, and I'm confident there will be photography enthusiasts who'll willlingly take on these opportunities to improve without thinking too much for compensation.

And also, ed9119's first post did come across as lambastling, especially since it was all bold and large sized, differing opinions tolerated in CS or not. But that's just me.

Peace.

 

[ed9119]

bro, I'm a little out of breath here...... if you dont mind ( and I sincerely say this) read and re-read both TS's initial thread and my own replies

end of day...... you guys do what you want to do......nobody is breaking any laws...... I am just trying to help people make educated decisions

 

[kiwi2]

There MUST be at least 4-5 other threads currently in this forum with genuine TFCD requests....... you have to ask..... how come they do not get shot down ?

I think that kind of detracts from the issue at hand, of what CS supports or disapproves. Why some threads don't get shot down here does not prove anything much. Sometimes, it's the way TS phrases his or her words. Sometimes, people just can't be bothered to post anything.

If you look at this post, there are (at this time of writing) 300+ views. It doesn't mean those that didn't write anything approve or disapprove Jolene428. It was you who started the disapproval of her request. In fact, look at the second post. A "michaelng" is interested in doing it. Obviously, he is ok with the request.

To me, TFCD is TFCD. It's a mutual agreement. Or perhaps there should be a more technical definition expressed in black and white here what TFCD really means. Sometimes, I suspect, newcomers don't know anything about what is going on. I can only imagine jolene428 innocently heard about CS, did a post here, and then got "lamblasted" for asking for TFCD. Do you think she will come back to CS? What an unfriendly place.

It's clear there are some people here who love to watch a show and blast those who provide photography services for free. Even if a photographer charges pittance for an assignment, he or she will still get chided sometimes for spoiling the market.

So please tell me and set the record straight, what is right to do? Ask every Tom, Dick and Harry to charge a few thousand $?

 

[kiwi2]

Ed, I also think we should stop the back and forth.

I want to come in peace, but there are always 2 sides to a coin.

I've said what I want to say... All I wish for is that posters can be more empathizing with others.

 

[kiwi2]

I'm in agreement with kiwi2 here. Babies and infants are tremendously fun to shoot, and I'm confident there will be photography enthusiasts who'll willlingly take on these opportunities to improve without thinking too much for compensation.
Peace.

Yeah I think that is a possible reason too. It seems the love of doing something you enjoy has been marred by money money money.

 

[ed9119]

bro kiwi2, no worries

I am not in the habit of fighting my case to the death die die must win

Thanks for your poins of view too.

 

[kiwi2]

ok peace then, bro.

 

[fotoudavid]

Hope the person who jumped in to shoot, at least protect ur own copy rights.

The rights of the images u own it, not the person who gt u to shoot. so better discuss it properly with TS, if cannot use for this and that, then ask urself, shoot for what???

It happen before that someone who shoot TFCD DND in the end got nothing, no money, no pictures to use and wasted a lot effort doing it.

That's the reason why i always hate to see such thread.

Ppl who always says shot for something u love etc, pls, there are tons of events and subjects to shoot for, not just this or that............

Money does plays a part in a hobby.

 

[bblurrr]

... deleted

Money does plays a part in a hobby.

right on :thumbsup:

 

[Dream Merchant]

Hihi All

Am looking for a TFCD Photographer (best with some portfolio) for a Mummies and Babies Event.

I am in the organizing committee for a group of mummies who delivered their babies in Nov 09 (and yes, I delivered my baby girl in Nov 09 too). We are thinking of organizing our first big scale (estimate 20 mummies + daddies with/without daddies) event in early March 2010.

We may also have many more Mummies and Babies event every month

However, we are running on low budget so as to get as many mummies + babies (and daddies if possible) to attend as possible.

Wonder if there is any photographer who will like to shoot the event on TFCD basis, do drop me an email k? My email is jolene428@gmail.com.

Other than the overall event shoot, we will hope to do 1 family photo + 1 baby individual shoot for each mummy at least to be kept for souvenir.

Who knows u can make your pick on some cute babies to do TFCD shoots with you in future ^^

We welcome more than one photographer for this event.

Hope to receive your email soon

Regards,
Jolene^^

It's a simple matter.

There are GENUINE TFCDs, and there's EXPLOITATION.

In some instances, it becomes clear when a thread starter, be it someone with illusions of grandeur or a business interest or group wants to scrimp on photography starts asking for everything FOC or for paltry pittance.

In the spirit of a genuine TFCD, costs are usually shared equally, or almost equally. Sometimes, you will see a thread requesting (ever so cutely or with the 'teh' formula) FOC shoot, FOC studio, FOC make-up artist, FOC hair stylist and even FOC wardrobe with nary a thought for photographers or the costs they have to bear.

It's usually a case of 'I want, I want, I want, and I don't want to give'.

As far as I can see, Ed has tried to stand up for what's correct, helping create a healthier environment where photographersand our hard-earned skills are valued and respected, and for that, he should be recognized instead of attacked for his actions, however how subtly put. A moderator’s job is never easy but he has the guts to stand up and make a stand. His actions tell me he cares for the overall state of photography and photographers and for that, I applaud him.

I don't see how dragging ClubSnap's stand into whether TFCDs are allowed or not helps. It has nothing to do with CS discouraging potential exploitative practices in its backyard. That's a bit of a red herring and distracts from the real matters at hand.


Back to certain realities:

Again, in the spirit of TFCDs - there has to be something truly compelling for both parties.

The opportunities to shoot kids ARE Abundant IN SINGAPORE.

It's not a sacred or exclusive opportunity. If photographers want the joy of shooting kids, all they have to do is visit any public area, park, playground or shopping center, almost anytime, but particularly on weekends and they have virtually endless opportunities to get all the practice they want. In many of these instances, the practice they will get coupled with the difficulties of shooting in a public area would go much further to hone their photographic and seeing skills.

If they so choose, there are some businesses which may be more than happy to let them be exploited, and they will get all the 'opportunities' and 'practice' shooting at an organized event or gathering.

Perhaps all those attacking Ed's action should help point out where, in any manner or form, and in the sincere and genuine spirit of a fair TFCD trade, that any sort of consideration has been accorded to photographers?

Even if photographers are willing to provide a TFCD service, there should at least be fair recognition and compensation bearing in mind the huge photographic equipment outlay and investment, and maintenance, IT equipment outlay and investment, and maintenance, besides showing some care and concern for the photographers where transportation and basic human needs like food and drink. I am not saying compensate them with food and drink, unless a suitable quality or food and drink is offered.


I guess what could be more revealing are these portions:

Other than the overall event shoot, we will hope to do 1 family photo + 1 baby individual shoot for each mummy at least to be kept for souvenir.

Who knows u can make your pick on some cute babies to do TFCD shoots with you in future ^^

We welcome more than one photographer for this event.

Let's face it, a large gathering for easily over 20 or possibly 40 people, not including maids and helpers, friends and family, would require a large venue, and that would cost. So would all the nice food, snacks and drinks. And that's not even taking into consideration the pretty decorations. And what's a baby gathering without gifts and party favors? We all know these are not cheap.

When looked at as a whole, it becomes obvious that there is a willingness to spend quite a fair bit on the party itself.

But what about photographers?

Are they not worth a cent, in all fairness, at least for the huge sums spent on equipment and maintenance, nor any respect or consideration?

Even if some were to pooh-paah the realists and more pragmatic, and keep on trying to drag in the 'not everything revolves around money' ride, besides all the other obfuscating points, perhaps they should foot the bill for the entire party, and photographers, as well as the formal family and baby portraits, and the future baby shoots that was hinted at. While we're at it, throw in all the FOC shoots that aspiring models and wedding couples want, besides businesses that seek a free ride.

In a world where most of us are struggling like crazy just to survive, mind you, not live in luxury, but just survive, the concept of living on love and free air seems far-fetched. I'm not saying be obsessed with money. Just be realistic.

IMO, here's where the real problems begin - The very basis and foundation of what constitutes a fair deal, or just fairness in dealing. I may be wrong, but is it ever really fair if one side keeps getting to take almost everything and give almost nothing, or very little?

Let's stop side-tracking and obfuscating the real matters at hand.

And let us all be realistic - can we live on love and free air?