LFC II - You'll never Walk Alone

[zhapchit]

again...u are correct..2 times African PLayer of the year. U may ask how come 2 times African player of the year can be a flop...?

I think that Houllier bought him..did not make use of him while houllier was playing a counter attack game in Owen Style....

When he left us to Bolton..I think he did play up to his expectation...there was even several match reports on him when sentences like "Diouf single-handed Bolton the victory"...never being written on him while he was with LFC...

Back to Houlier.. why did he buy Diouf when he cant make use of him fully?

Diouf did have good games for Bolton.. but he had red cards too, i dunno whether the match reports for those were Diouf single-handedly gave Bolton defeat.

 

[MichaelLee]

Back to Houlier.. why did he buy Diouf when he cant make use of him fully?

Diouf did have good games for Bolton.. but he had red cards too, i dunno whether the match reports for those were Diouf single-handedly gave Bolton defeat.

that's why Diouf is one of the factor the LFC Board and me as well also calling for Houllier to go. Both Diouf and Diao + Cheyrou was really joker. 3 of them cost us near 20m.

Diouf had red cards playing with Bolton...i think so, may be 1 or 2. But I not sure. Dun follow much with Bolton Red cards. Btw....there were several occasions last season Diouf scored the winning goals for bolton.

 

[nemesis32]

with heskey.. he was asked to play a different role.. so can understand...

but kewell .. :think:

Kewell did play well initially and scored a couple of goals.. subsequently he got the liverpool injury jinx....

Also, the style that liverpool play and leeds play is very different, same for heskey as Leicester play very differently.

For leeds, they like to press and counter attack. Liverpool sits back more. FOr Leicester, they play defensive but strong in set pieces, liverpool is weak in set pieces so did not utilise Heskey well.

 

[nemesis32]

Diouf? He was one of the most expensive player Liverpool signed then. He came with a big reputation. Much bigger than Crouch. Of cos no one stated how many goals he had to score.
But he managed only 6 goals in his first season. If you cost that much and you arrive with that kind of reputation, not to mention he wears the no.9 shirt, he is a flop. His bad discipline didnt help much.

I don't see Crouch going to start alot of games, unless we get hit by injury problems again (touch wood). So I am not expecting him to score alot.

Rafa already indicated that one of the reasons he signed Crouch is the fate that we lost 11 away matches... This is a lot considered Chelsea lost 1 match whole season, so thats 30 points! If we can cut down on that, we will be challenging the top 3.

I suspect Rafa will use Crouch more so in away matches and late in match when we are goalless and sent him in to create havoc and maybe score from corners...

 

[nemesis32]

you probably went for toilet breaks when heskey falls :bsmilie:


23 in first season
14 in 2nd season
9 goals in 3rd season
12 goals final seasib

Average 15 goals a season.. but actually for 3 seasons he was below average.

Yupzz... i brought that up as well... he flunk for 3 years and score an A for 1... still good? I dun really think so considered he was 1st choice most of the time to partner Owen. True also that Houllier sometimes play him out of position.

 

[nemesis32]

that's why Diouf is one of the factor the LFC Board and me as well also calling for Houllier to go. Both Diouf and Diao + Cheyrou was really joker. 3 of them cost us near 20m.

Diouf had red cards playing with Bolton...i think so, may be 1 or 2. But I not sure. Dun follow much with Bolton Red cards. Btw....there were several occasions last season Diouf scored the winning goals for bolton.

I still think Diouf is an excellent player. Just the difference between expectation. He's not a natural goal scorer, he can never be a fowler or even an Owen, but he has good touches, can create, hardworking and can score a few.

What i think was wrong is for Houllier to give up on players. I think he signed many good players, even Cheyrou and Biscan are good. The problem is he dun play them the right way and when things goes wrong, he dun support them etc.. You see how Arsene played Henry in his early arsenal days as striker even when he not scoring? Same for Fergie when he tries to mix and match players... Houllier lacks that and thats why he will never be a top manager. He's lousy in man management.

 

[Cheesecake]

most times, heskey plays as an out and out left winger!!!

 

[kenshinz]

I think the main reason Crouch was signed is to play in the EPL due to the fact that for some reason we just cannot score and win the EPL, thot we dun have much problem in European matches.

 

[Tupi Guy]

Crouch is not bad. Can make £30,000 per week. ha.

It not very funny to using someone name or trying to making fun of it.

I believe u knw what i mean.

 

[MichaelLee]

I still think Diouf is an excellent player. Just the difference between expectation. He's not a natural goal scorer, he can never be a fowler or even an Owen, but he has good touches, can create, hardworking and can score a few.

What i think was wrong is for Houllier to give up on players. I think he signed many good players, even Cheyrou and Biscan are good. The problem is he dun play them the right way and when things goes wrong, he dun support them etc.. You see how Arsene played Henry in his early arsenal days as striker even when he not scoring? Same for Fergie when he tries to mix and match players... Houllier lacks that and thats why he will never be a top manager. He's lousy in man management.

wah..u even use the word "excellent" to describe Diouf. FOr me..I would say it is a good bolton player (price+performance) but a lousy Liverpool player.

True that Houllier will never be a top manager..Only manager who win EPL is considered a top manager.

Won several trophies at least deserve better than lousy lah......if he is lousy to win several trophies...the beloved english Sir Bobby Robson must be idiot in EPL football mamagement.

Rafa already indicated that one of the reasons he signed Crouch is the fate that we lost 11 away matches...

this is something I find it hard to accpet..Lost away matches...the immediate solution is to strenghten the defence..or to get another strong man in midfield to play as defensive midfielder. Typical example..we were losing 3 goals...get Hamman in to protect the back 4. and it worked.

I think when we are facing tough opponent who like to close the door..Rafa can use Crouch to play as target man..and keep pumping the ball into the air for Crouch to go for header. Once they drop back abit to anticipate the cross....our midfield can push further and Gerrard can try for a long shot...

and Rafa had also reliased that Cisse, Sinama, Baros, Mellor, and Baros are not good header.

I think the main reason Crouch was signed is to play in the EPL due to the fact that for some reason we just cannot score and win the EPL,

Precsiely...we are not scoring enough goals.The striker depart fail to deliver a good performance.

 

[nemesis32]

wah..u even use the word "excellent" to describe Diouf. FOr me..I would say it is a good bolton player (price+performance) but a lousy Liverpool player.

True that Houllier will never be a top manager..Only manager who win EPL is considered a top manager.

Won several trophies at least deserve better than lousy lah......if he is lousy to win several trophies...the beloved english Sir Bobby Robson must be idiot in EPL football mamagement.



this is something I find it hard to accpet..Lost away matches...the immediate solution is to strenghten the defence..or to get another strong man in midfield to play as defensive midfielder. Typical example..we were losing 3 goals...get Hamman in to protect the back 4. and it worked.

I think when we are facing tough opponent who like to close the door..Rafa can use Crouch to play as target man..and keep pumping the ball into the air for Crouch to go for header. Once they drop back abit to anticipate the cross....our midfield can push further and Gerrard can try for a long shot...

and Rafa had also reliased that Cisse, Sinama, Baros, Mellor, and Baros are not good header.




Precsiely...we are not scoring enough goals.The striker depart fail to deliver a good performance.

I say Houllier is lousy in man management, which is a subset of football management. He's pretty good in sporting talents but dunno how to utilise them...

You keep on mentioning Sir Bobby, which i did not reply earlier but are you aware he won the league with Ipswich? In fact, i believe Ipswich even got to a European final under Sir Bobby. Also, he won with PSV, Barca etc...

But... Sir Bobby is also not very good in man management... he's too lenient with the Newcastle players like Bellamy, Bowyer, Dyer etc, which ended up he has to go. His records in Newcastle is no good. But i think it's more due to the fact that he tried to buy young and backfired. Players like Bramble, Ambrose, Dyer are great talents but Shearer is too old to wait for them to peak... Sir Bobby shd sign a few top class player when Shearer still in the prime.... now is too late for Newcastle to win anything but maybe a cup.

As for signing Crouch to play away matches, sometimes it will not work if we try and consolidate and then attack (bring on Hamann etc) esp if opp is ultra-defensive. A lot of time, we have a lot of possession but fail to score because opp is too defensive, we wasted all the set pieces since Baros and Garcia etc are quite useless when come to header. Now, with Crouch and Morientes, we are more well equip to challenge the tall defenders in set pieces.....

 

[MichaelLee]

You keep on mentioning Sir Bobby, which i did not reply earlier but are you aware he won the league with Ipswich? In fact, i believe Ipswich even got to a European final under Sir Bobby. Also, he won with PSV, Barca etc...

Read my statement again...I say Sir Bobby Robson is lousy in "EPL" football.

With all the excuse u made for Sir Robson..he is not lousy at all although he won nothing with Newcastle. he did not manage to take Newcastle to any of the CL Group Stage. and He was credited for buying young players for future development.

with all the fault ( no credit) u pointed at Houllier...he is definately lousy even he won 5 trophies with Liverpool. and he took us playing CL 2-3 times are not even worth for any credit. And of course we deny that the fact he even bought/developed some of the best young players for future development - Only Alosono is the only player not signed under Houllier in the team that won European Champion.

Dun get me wrong. I respect Sir Bobby Robson..

But if I apply your logic "judging/rating" Houllier to judge Sir Bobby Robson, I am sad to find that Sir Robson is even more a joker in EPL football.

 

[MichaelLee]

As for signing Crouch to play away matches, sometimes it will not work if we try and consolidate and then attack (bring on Hamann etc) esp if opp is ultra-defensive. A lot of time, we have a lot of possession but fail to score because opp is too defensive, we wasted all the set pieces since Baros and Garcia etc are quite useless when come to header. Now, with Crouch and Morientes, we are more well equip to challenge the tall defenders in set pieces.....

as what Zhapchit said "He hafen even kick a ball for liverpool yet, so let's not judge him too early."

quite true....lets not judge him too early, he has not kicked a ball...how do u know that with Crouch and Morientes, we are more well equip to challenge the tall defenders in set pieces ???

 

[nemesis32]

Based on how he tortured Carra and Hyypia (i think pelle didn't play) in the Southampton match? Also based on past history...

 

[nemesis32]

Read my statement again...I say Sir Bobby Robson is lousy in "EPL" football.

With all the excuse u made for Sir Robson..he is not lousy at all although he won nothing with Newcastle. he did not manage to take Newcastle to any of the CL Group Stage. and He was credited for buying young players for future development.

with all the fault ( no credit) u pointed at Houllier...he is definately lousy even he won 5 trophies with Liverpool. and he took us playing CL 2-3 times are not even worth for any credit. And of course we deny that the fact he even bought/developed some of the best young players for future development - Only Alosono is the only player not signed under Houllier in the team that won European Champion.

Dun get me wrong. I respect Sir Bobby Robson..

But if I apply your logic "judging/rating" Houllier to judge Sir Bobby Robson, I am sad to find that Sir Robson is even more a joker in EPL football.

Like i have repeatedly say lor. I appreciate GH for winning the 5 cups and CL qualification. However, i think that as far as man management is concerned, he has failed miserably. Yes, Sir Bobby's record in EPL is worse than GH and i agree to that. It's for everyone to see. However, is Sir Bobby a better manager to GH? Well, this is very subjective as Sir Bobby won league with Ipswich but that was years ago. He also won many cups and leagues with PSV and Barca so he has proven that he can win with different thing. I regard winning with different teams more highly than winning with 1 team. With 1 team, if your team is blessed with top class player, you shd win. With different teams, unless you are damn lucky, you have to be of some good to consistently win.

Is mourhino,fergie,arsene good? Yes, they won with different teams. Mourihno won with Porto, Chelsea (you can argue that Chelsea is so strong and shd win but what abt POrto?). Fergie won in scotland before winning with Man U. Arsene was a success in Japan, Monaco before he came to Arsenal.

Other successful mgr includes maybe Martin O'neil, winning at celtic is nothing to shout abt but what abt 2 league cup or issit FA cup with Leicester?

David O'Leary i won't treat him as successful as he only have 1 good season with Leeds, and spend so much money and subsequently unable to reproduce the success with both Leeds and Villa. Ranieri also not consider successful since he is unable to win with Chelsea despite the big budget.

These are some example of how i rate managers as successful or not. If GH can win with Lyon or any other teams (league, cup, european cup, uefa cup etc), i would say he's successful or good manager...

I will be the 1st to admit that when we won the 5 cups (in 2 seasons), we are pretty lucky in the FA cup and UEFA cup...

 

[MichaelLee]

Like i have repeatedly say lor. I appreciate GH for winning the 5 cups and CL qualification. However, i think that as far as man management is concerned, he has failed miserably. Yes, Sir Bobby's record in EPL is worse than GH and i agree to that. It's for everyone to see. However, is Sir Bobby a better manager to GH? Well, this is very subjective as Sir Bobby won league with Ipswich but that was years ago. He also won many cups and leagues with PSV and Barca so he has proven that he can win with different thing. I regard winning with different teams more highly than winning with 1 team. With 1 team, if your team is blessed with top class player, you shd win. With different teams, unless you are damn lucky, you have to be of some good to consistently win.

Is mourhino,fergie,arsene good? Yes, they won with different teams. Mourihno won with Porto, Chelsea (you can argue that Chelsea is so strong and shd win but what abt POrto?). Fergie won in scotland before winning with Man U. Arsene was a success in Japan, Monaco before he came to Arsenal.

Other successful mgr includes maybe Martin O'neil, winning at celtic is nothing to shout abt but what abt 2 league cup or issit FA cup with Leicester?

David O'Leary i won't treat him as successful as he only have 1 good season with Leeds, and spend so much money and subsequently unable to reproduce the success with both Leeds and Villa. Ranieri also not consider successful since he is unable to win with Chelsea despite the big budget.

These are some example of how i rate managers as successful or not. If GH can win with Lyon or any other teams (league, cup, european cup, uefa cup etc), i would say he's successful or good manager...

I will be the 1st to admit that when we won the 5 cups (in 2 seasons), we are pretty lucky in the FA cup and UEFA cup...

I agree. Houllier failed to make us into the level to challege EPL tittle. that;s why he had to go..I aslo want him to go. Especially he became a bid mad in the last 2 seasons..used 20m to buy Diouf+Diao+ Cheyrou...and changed from a very successful counterattack style to a more open attack style..from there...we head south.

 

[MichaelLee]

Based on how he tortured Carra and Hyypia (i think pelle didn't play) in the Southampton match? Also based on past history...

Pelle did play in that match...the first goal..he was very slow to clear the ball. then Soton player went into him and he lost possesion and ended Soton 1, Liverpool 0.

then the 2nd goal...Pelle was at totally wrong positioning...did not go up to close down on the left flank..standing there seems like someone is singing Argentina national song. The ball cross from the left flank..and there was 2 Soton in the 3 yard box, whilst Carra is the only CD ( u wonder who is the other CD ? who else ..Pelle lor.)...and Crouch scored from a easy header.

Soton 2 - Liverpool 0.

then I vomit 2 liter blood and my wife drove me to hospital..

 

[nemesis32]

I agree. Houllier failed to make us into the level to challege EPL tittle. that;s why he had to go..I aslo want him to go. Especially he became a bid mad in the last 2 seasons..used 20m to buy Diouf+Diao+ Cheyrou...and changed from a very successful counterattack style to a more open attack style..from there...we head south.

Precisely... He seems like dun have his own opinion but yet very stubborn at times... Totally lost his plot... As for the southampton match... Crouch scored from an easy header when Carra is CD... how often you see that in EPL or even last season...? This shows that at least he shd be quite good in the air...even carra and rafa agrees

 

[zaren]

former pool idol owen headed for man u? that should make pool vs man u more interesting this season... :think:

 

[afbug]

former pool idol owen headed for man u? that should make pool vs man u more interesting this season... :think:

Should he come to Mau Utd, he is the spy from Liverpool! :sweatsm: But he make a good spy thou, little midget can hide here hide there. :bsmilie: