LFC II - You'll never Walk Alone
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MichaelLee
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nemesis32 said:
I do..I am a die hard Brazil fans....although I support Liverpool..:bsmilie:
nemesis32 said:
Then I conclude that Houllier won 5 trophies is nothing much..then Sir Bobby Robson who won nothing is a real joker in the EPL.
Owen from a youngster to win European player of the year (although u think he did not deserve it, but UEFA think other wise) is not Houllier credit...then Arsenal Wenger and Sir Bobby Robson also a joker. None of their player won World or European Player of the Year...
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
I am judging him based on his performance with Soton....
Yes...I can't officially set the number of goals Crouch has to score..but personally I do have a mind set for him how many he has to score to justify him a good player for LFC.
Similiar case...none of us can officially set the number of goals Diouf he has to score..not even on the contract LFC signed him...did state out the number of goals he must score
But then why every one (include me ) blame Houllier who had signed a flop ? why every one (include me ) also said that Diouf is a flop ?
Since no one (not LFC management) had officially set the number of goals Diouf has to score....even if Diouf did not score at all..it is ok, right ?
MichaelLee
Senior Member
nemesis32 said:
me too..I dun think he will do well. Lyon is already 3 times consecutive winner. anything less than Champion is considerd a failure.
MichaelLee
Senior Member
afbug said:
he is still frequently visiting Hospital. I think he had a special relationship with the nurse there....
MichaelLee
Senior Member
afbug said:
kelong for the Chang beer Sponsorship ???? :dunno:
zhapchit
Senior Member
wong_se said:
Diouf? He was one of the most expensive player Liverpool signed then. He came with a big reputation. Much bigger than Crouch. Of cos no one stated how many goals he had to score.
But he managed only 6 goals in his first season. If you cost that much and you arrive with that kind of reputation, not to mention he wears the no.9 shirt, he is a flop. His bad discipline didnt help much.
I don't see Crouch going to start alot of games, unless we get hit by injury problems again (touch wood). So I am not expecting him to score alot.
MichaelLee
Senior Member
Andy Gray on Crouch ......
"Rafa Benitez has bought himself a great option rather than a great player."
on Baros .............
"Baros is a head-down kind of player who is frustrating to watch - he runs with the ball and either loses it or scores. Some teams will accommodate this type of player but Benitez clearly doesn't think that fits in with his Liverpool team."
and read the fans reaction on Crouch here..
and this really voice out what I have been arguing here ... "What does it say about footballers' valuations that we sold Owen for £8m, and are now buying Peter Crouch for £7m? And secondly, if we needed a big man to flail, fall and bully the opposition, why did we ever sell Emile Heskey? "
"Rafa Benitez has bought himself a great option rather than a great player."
on Baros .............
"Baros is a head-down kind of player who is frustrating to watch - he runs with the ball and either loses it or scores. Some teams will accommodate this type of player but Benitez clearly doesn't think that fits in with his Liverpool team."
and read the fans reaction on Crouch here..
and this really voice out what I have been arguing here ... "What does it say about footballers' valuations that we sold Owen for £8m, and are now buying Peter Crouch for £7m? And secondly, if we needed a big man to flail, fall and bully the opposition, why did we ever sell Emile Heskey? "
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
Diouf was one of the most expensive player..but only scored 6 goals..and he is a flop.
U set a rule (based on number of goals he score) to label Diouf a flop...where u dun think I can set the number of goals Crouch has to score base on the transfer fee to judge Crouch whether he is a flop. :dunno:
Btw...I read couple of fans reaction from various thread/forum about the signings of Crouch. CS Liverpool forum is the only one that I come across that the fans here are reacting quite "optimistic" about Crouch..
U may also read here...to find out what others think...
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
eerrrr...this one I dun know. U have the stats ??
I only have this - 60 goals for 4 seasons. (friendly not counted) average 15 goals a season. Winner of Fa Cup, league Cup, Super Cup, UEFA Cup, Charity Shield. Was once an england squad player....scored to thrash germany 5-1, scored in World Cup quarter final..and assit in goal to score against Brazil, the winner of the competition.
I would rate a player on how much he had achieved....not by how much he had not achieved...
Just like I would rate a good photographer based on how many awards he had won..and not by how many crappy pics he had taken ....
zhapchit
Senior Member
I didnt judge Diouf base on his transfer fee alone. I said he came with a big reputation as well. African player of the year for 2years plus he danced around the France players in the world cup. He scored only 6 goals.. what else did he contribute? Helping up collect red cards or helping us to spit on opponents.wong_se said:
I like to be optimistic with the signings. So if those are pessimistic view, i'm not going to read them. I'll have to admit i think Crouch is a bit overpriced, maybe. These days the transfer fee of the players don't truely reflect their worth. But i'd want to be optimistic and hope that he will turn out to be a good signing. He hafen even kick a ball for liverpool yet, so let's not judge him too early.
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
ok..let's not judge him too early. And let;s not to judge him that he is a good signing nor a bad signing..
we should only judge him at the end of season how many goals he could score for us.
but ..can we NOW try to have a mindset of what number (of goals) to judge him at the end of season whether he is doing No Good, Ok, Good player ??
this is my view -
< 13 : flop
13-18 : average, ok, deserve to be LFC player but nothing special
>18 : good player
again we can;t argue that he score little because he did not play lots of game.. If one is good..he would have play lots of game.
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
actually this a very interesting topic to discuss..whether a player is a good player or a flop.
Again I must say that I am very money minded person. I judge everything based on price.
ie..is D2X a good camera ? If D2X is SGD5,000, yes it is a good camera.
if D2X is SGD18,000, no...it is not a good camera. With SGD18,000 we expect it would do much more..
Similiar case to Diouf...is he a good player ?
For me, Yes..it is 3m. No since we bought him at 10m.
I would judge a player based on price+performance.
btw...Diouf only collected 1 red card and only helped us to split on fans/opponents in 1 occasion. That is against Celtic in the UEFA games. But on the other hand....he really assit quite a number of goals ( although i dun have the stats)
again...u are correct..2 times African PLayer of the year. U may ask how come 2 times African player of the year can be a flop...?
I think that Houllier bought him..did not make use of him while houllier was playing a counter attack game in Owen Style....
When he left us to Bolton..I think he did play up to his expectation...there was even several match reports on him when sentences like "Diouf single-handed Bolton the victory"...never being written on him while he was with LFC...
MichaelLee
Senior Member
zhapchit said:
I dun rate a photographer when he take some crappy pic...as long as some of his pic win award..he is good enough.
again...15 average for 4 seasons...u may say he was below average for 3 seasons..but u mayalso find it hard to get another 2nd striker in EPL who can have 60 goals for 4 season. Not to mention Heskey had been one of the top strikers for the last 4 years who had most number of assist on goals. At least if he did not score..he set up others to score.
take for exemple.....Leeds Viduka had a better record. But he is first striker...look at kewell and Smith. None of them have 15goals average. and Smith assit on goal also much lower than heskey.
if he is damn good player....he will not be only playing 1 min or 1 game. Unless he is injured.
I would look at total numbers of goals..rather than goal per min.
Just like...when u judge a good photograher..u look at total number of awards won...rather than awards won per number of pic taken/shutter count
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