K5 vs D700 vs D7000 @ ISO3200 & ISO6400

[Tester]

Guys, read all the posts in the thread. Even GordonBGood, a long time Pentax user and poster on DPR, says the test is invalid. K-5 uses RAW NR (noise reduction) that like K-7, K-x, and K-r kicks in automatically at ISO 3200 and up and can't be turned off. So this test is comparing one camera with NR vs other with NR off.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=36792981

"I would also agree but: The Nikon D7000 very likely doesn't use the "extra" high ISO raw Noise Reduction (NR) that the K-5 definitely does starting at ISO 3200, which has a strength to reduce the magnitude of the noise peaks by about a factor of two, so if one applied the same type of NR to the D7000 images then they would look about the same.

Getting real here, I don't think one chooses a camera from one of the D7000 or the K-5 for reasons of image quality or high ISO performance but rather for other features of each."

 

[grantyale]

Uniform-patch SNR says nothing at all. That's where DxO fails too, among a few other things.

============

Actually, Nikon does RAW noise reduction too, but in a different manner.

 

[dnaxe]

Dunno yet, having mixed feelings between Kr(after ogling over nightmare's Pic)& K5. :bsmilie:

Trust me. Nightmare doesn't take good photos BECAUSE of his gear. Pick whichever of the two you like for other reasons

--

I would be really surprised if the K-5 turns out to be so much better than the D7000/D700 at 3200/6400 (Note, I use a K-5).

Edit: I hope to be surprised.

 

[poppyer]

Actually, Nikon does RAW noise reduction too, but in a different manner.

That is pretty interesting, any details?

 

[2100]

already pre-ordered last week

I'm aiming for a Nikkor 24/1.4. Wanted the 35/1.4 coz its cheaper, but then thought that FF 24mm or DX 25 x 1.5 = 35mm on a DX body would be more useful.

Then wait for D300s replacement. Must be TOKONG! Coz they cut out some stuff from the D7000.

 

[armadillo]

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon_D300S-vs-Nikon_D7000/score
Based on the comparison seem D300s still a winner.

 

[Tester]

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon_D300S-vs-Nikon_D7000/score
Based on the comparison seem D300s still a winner.

D7000 gots 0 points for IQ (dynamic range, low-light, color depth) because scores are unknown. Once they are added, D7000 would beat D300s big time on that link that you posted.

 

[pinholecam]

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon_D300S-vs-Nikon_D7000/score
Based on the comparison seem D300s still a winner.

I'm just wondering why this website seems to be rather often used? (not just here but in other sub forums here as well)
Other than a nice bolded VS it does not seem to offer anything in terms of real sample photos or photo comparisons.
It seems to be a site that just copies the available info on other sites and places in there.


Or does it pop up first in google when someone types a "XXX VS XXXX" search?

 

[bayusuputra]

K-5 uses RAW NR (noise reduction) that like K-7, K-x, and K-r kicks in automatically at ISO 3200 and up and can't be turned off.

"I don't think one chooses a camera from one of the D7000 or the K-5 for reasons of image quality or high ISO performance"

i thought i saw one post saying that NR in K-5 can be turned off unlike K-7?

well, i do choose a camera based on its image quality and high ISO performance, because image is what i want to capture, no point having swivel LCD or 51 AF points if the image comes out like my LG phone 2mp camera.. and i use high ISO, cus my shooting environment requires me to do so.. other features helps in taking image, but choosing camera other than its image quality? :dunno:

i am not a pentax user, but thinking of moving to pentax..

 

[fengwei]

i thought i saw one post saying that NR in K-5 can be turned off unlike K-7?

well, i do choose a camera based on its image quality and high ISO performance, because image is what i want to capture, no point having swivel LCD or 51 AF points if the image comes out like my LG phone 2mp camera.. and i use high ISO, cus my shooting environment requires me to do so.. other features helps in taking image, but choosing camera other than its image quality? :dunno:

i am not a pentax user, but thinking of moving to pentax..

Hmm, you are still not convinced yet? Just do it lah :bsmilie:

 

[pinholecam]

i thought i saw one post saying that NR in K-5 can be turned off unlike K-7?

well, i do choose a camera based on its image quality and high ISO performance, because image is what i want to capture, no point having swivel LCD or 51 AF points if the image comes out like my LG phone 2mp camera.. and i use high ISO, cus my shooting environment requires me to do so.. other features helps in taking image, but choosing camera other than its image quality? :dunno:

i am not a pentax user, but thinking of moving to pentax..

Exactly!
There has been many theories and accusations being thrown around that some sort of NR is being done on camera. Well, for me as a photographer, I can't care less. What type of absolute truth are all these ppl talking about. So long as the o/p gives good details, fine grain and not hard to clean up chrominance noise, it is good. I don't give a damn if they stole the god damn technique from aliens or what. I've looked at ISO6400 to ISO12800 photos on my K5 (and even ISO25600) and I know what I'm seeing.

 

[xtunbox]

Exactly!
There has been many theories and accusations being thrown around that some sort of NR is being done on camera. Well, for me as a photographer, I can't care less. What type of absolute truth are all these ppl talking about. So long as the o/p gives good details, fine grain and not hard to clean up chrominance noise, it is good. I don't give a damn if they stole the god damn technique from aliens or what. I've looked at ISO6400 to ISO12800 photos on my K5 (and even ISO25600) and I know what I'm seeing.

:thumbsup: Well said. Which ever camera gives me the best performance in terms of image quality is good enough. I dont give a damn on whatever NR technique the camera uses in the background to give a less noisy image... whichever just give me the best quality image at the end of the day, it is the winner. It is dat simple. :devil:

*PS: From the above, I am not taking considerations on other stuffs. Just refering to image quality taken at high ISO. Dont flame me. ;p

 

[2100]

BTW, just a quick note, picture quality does not depend on high-ISO, other than if you are shooting in really dimly lit conditions like a wedding ballroom dimmed down and you are shooting ambient. Other than grain/noise, there are much other aspects on image quality. And even then, the sensor accounts for that much in the overall equation. Hope you guys can grasp it.

 

[bayusuputra]

Hmm, you are still not convinced yet? Just do it lah

Hehehe.. i am convinced now, fengwei! if not, i'll be posting in nikon sub instead..:bsmilie:
but i don't know what to do with my ME super, got problems, but i still wanna keep it..

Exactly!
There has been many theories and accusations being thrown around that some sort of NR is being done on camera. Well, for me as a photographer, I can't care less. What type of absolute truth are all these ppl talking about. So long as the o/p gives good details, fine grain and not hard to clean up chrominance noise, it is good. I don't give a damn if they stole the god damn technique from aliens or what. I've looked at ISO6400 to ISO12800 photos on my K5 (and even ISO25600) and I know what I'm seeing.

well, in my case the one that can make me smile the widest wins!
but other features do impress me as well as secondary factors after IQ..
i think comparison is good to make an informed choice, but in the end, the image speaks the loudest, that's why i still choose a camera based on its IQ and not based on features..

BTW, just a quick note, picture quality does not depend on high-ISO, other than if you are shooting in really dimly lit conditions like a wedding ballroom dimmed down and you are shooting ambient. Other than grain/noise, there are much other aspects on image quality. And even then, the sensor accounts for that much in the overall equation. Hope you guys can grasp it.

yup, agree to that one! even the lens will determine IQ as well..
i was just saying that the person Tester was quoting was quite absurd IMO, saying that IQ and high ISO is not something that people would look into, but rather its feature..
well, i don't choose a camera based on features, but based on the image it produces..
anyway, thanks so much for the reminders as well!

 

[alantkh]

Exactly!
There has been many theories and accusations being thrown around that some sort of NR is being done on camera. Well, for me as a photographer, I can't care less. What type of absolute truth are all these ppl talking about. So long as the o/p gives good details, fine grain and not hard to clean up chrominance noise, it is good. I don't give a damn if they stole the god damn technique from aliens or what. I've looked at ISO6400 to ISO12800 photos on my K5 (and even ISO25600) and I know what I'm seeing.

have you a sample of good high ISO performance with fine low contrast detail like fabric?

A lot of samples I see is just web sized prints with zero detail.

 

[alantkh]

Uniform-patch SNR says nothing at all. That's where DxO fails too, among a few other things.

============

Actually, Nikon does RAW noise reduction too, but in a different manner.

but at least DXO does detect the existence of NR in pentax raw files due to the different noise distribution.

 

[pinholecam]

have you a sample of good high ISO performance with fine low contrast detail like fabric?

A lot of samples I see is just web sized prints with zero detail.

Here you are.
There is nothing to hide.
If you do look around, you can always find detail shots here:
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=779971
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...-k-5-dng-raw-iso-case-study-6400-51200-a.html
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...o3200-sampled-raw-post-processing-nr-off.html


JPEG straight off camera
ISO6400 (NR on mid)

100% crop

100% crop ISO6400 NR-off (different image from above)

ISO12800 (NR off)

100% crop

Not trying to pull any punches here, but these are imo very good for a ~$1700 camera.
If you are willing to share photos that you think are good examples of what a non NR'ed camera should be (esp. at this price point), pls do share them.

 

[alantkh]

yup. That is what I meant.

A good example of fine detail is the still life images from imaging resource. Look at the fabric and threads and brush.

They have high ISO series still life images for many cameras including the D7000.

 

[Tachyon]

Hmm.. very tempted to convert my K-7 to an IR camera and get the K-5 after the price has dropped (yes, I am still sore that the price of K-7 dropped $400 or 20% in just 8 months!).

 

[night86mare]

Hmm.. very tempted to convert my K-7 to an IR camera and get the K-5 after the price has dropped (yes, I am still sore that the price of K-7 dropped $400 or 20% in just 8 months!).

:sweat:

that's an expensive ir modded camera. :sweat: