It's not so much the badge as the size to me. If a lens is a gigantic SLR size, then it better resolve 36MP before I buy it. However, if it's small and convenient sized and "good enough", then I would buy it too. So, I'm quite happy with my Contax G90 since it autofocuses on the A7r and is small and light, even though it can't resolve 36MP. But I'm less happy using my Pentax FA77 as it's much heavier, even though it's faster. One of my crude measures is whether the lens hangs down when the camera is around my neck :bsmilie:
Just picked up the FE 55/1.8. Quick question for those who got it
- Thread starter Rurouni
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It's not so much the badge as the size to me. If a lens is a gigantic SLR size, then it better resolve 36MP before I buy it. However, if it's small and convenient sized and "good enough", then I would buy it too. So, I'm quite happy with my Contax G90 since it autofocuses on the A7r and is small and light, even though it can't resolve 36MP. But I'm less happy using my Pentax FA77 as it's much heavier, even though it's faster. One of my crude measures is whether the lens hangs down when the camera is around my neck :bsmilie:
ricleo
Senior Member
haha no la no personal offence taken. just thought that your emphasis on test charts n sharpness scores and using it to compare everything theoritically instead of practically a little skewered, so I was having a little fun debating with you on DXO/lensrental test results.
anyway i'm quite sure my sigma 35, 120-300 sports and 135 F2L are comfortably outresolving the 5D3 because they are showing so much more performance on the A7r with an adaptor no less. 50 1.2 not so good at F1.2 of course even on canon but stopped down to F2 and above i'm sure it will resolve bigger sensors for years to come.
anyway i'm quite sure my sigma 35, 120-300 sports and 135 F2L are comfortably outresolving the 5D3 because they are showing so much more performance on the A7r with an adaptor no less. 50 1.2 not so good at F1.2 of course even on canon but stopped down to F2 and above i'm sure it will resolve bigger sensors for years to come.
Thanks for that. I too enjoy a little competitive banter and do try not to be too sour so I'm glad you have taken it with good spirit. I'm a gearhead, so whether its cameras or cars, I like to look at the bleeding edge of technology, and hopefully play with it, but I'm no pro by any means and have no intention of being either a pro racing driver or making money as a wedding photographer. With the A7r, I bought it hoping to finally utilize some of the full frame lenses that I have acquired over the years, never intending to buy any of the FE lenses, which I thought were expensive at the time. However, I did buy the 35FE with the A7r and immediately noticed that it was head and shoulders above my legacy glass, some of it the best stuff from the film era in terms of design. So, I changed my mind on the FE lenses, now preferring them to my legacy glass and even thinking of selling off everything else. I now view FE glass as a bargain given it's quality, light weight and ability to autofocus quickly.
Generally though, I have to say that I find that there are far too many comments from the pundits calling for people to stop looking at charts and measurements and to focus on the art of photography. I think one has to strike a balance between looking at tech and art. I've certainly benefited from all the tests and measurements in terms of learning how to use my lenses optimally and how to avoid their flaws. Learning how to use your equipment optimally helps in the art and it's just fun comparing stuff. I also find that my favourite photography bloggers and writers are exceptionally competent on the tech side whether it's Ming Thien, Michael Reichmann or Llyod Chambers. So, I'm going to happily continue to look at Dxomark, Lenstip, Photozone, SLRGear and the rest while also ogling MTF charts and USAF test charts because I find it fun.
Thoth
Senior Member
Thinking to sell off your FF legacy lenses? I dun mind getting your Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH Pre FLE if U have a copy bro... cheap cheap k? :bsmilie:
Sorry, I don't have one. Haha.
Back to some charts. Assuming the Otus can fully resolve the 5DMkIII sensor, don't think the 50 1.2 fully resolves today's 22MP at F2.8
At F8, it's about the same as Otus in the center, but not in the corners. Notice that diffraction is already taking a toll
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ricleo
Senior Member
ha for a lens that costs 1/2 of the otus new and actually 1/3 of the otus since i got it 2nd hand, I'm impressed how it is performing according to the test charts you just showed!
the 50 1.2L was bought to be a portrait lens and the otus doesn't go down to F1.2 hehe...so no contest there. I don't need edge to edge critical sharpness for portraits la... landscape den different story.
50 1.2L using the a7r. My FE 55 while bitingly sharp can't get this kind of bokeh
the 50 1.2L was bought to be a portrait lens and the otus doesn't go down to F1.2 hehe...so no contest there. I don't need edge to edge critical sharpness for portraits la... landscape den different story.
50 1.2L using the a7r. My FE 55 while bitingly sharp can't get this kind of bokeh
Back to some charts. Assuming the Otus can fully resolve the 5DMkIII sensor, don't think the 50 1.2 fully resolves today's 22MP at F2.8
At F8, it's about the same as Otus in the center, but not in the corners. Notice that diffraction is already taking a toll
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Well that's true...I used to one who will first look at specs and test charts before commit to anything, be it in cars, camera or lens. However as with all things I find one's skill set is the biggest bottle neck. I learn to accept some compromises, some imperfection in order to gain some enjoyment and to keep one's sanity in check. Buying the best and fastest car won't make you enjoy driving or drive quicker around a circuit, skill does. The same with fountain pen (my other hobby) and camera gears.
You're right to call for striking a good balance between science and art. However, constantly pulling out test charts drives me crazy nowadays. I might cursory refer to them once in a while but I would rather make more time to actually go out and take some actual photos, then see how much I actually like the gears in my possession. FE55/1.8 and 50 Summilux-M ASPH are a couple of the lenses that grew on me, same with the RX1 which I actually did redicule when it was first launch as "too limiting" and "too expensive" but since I owned one, I really do fell in love with it for what it offers, and worked around it's weakness.
It's fine to refer to these test charts, but I see many who will not hesitate to pull it out all the time to hammer in their point (not saying you did that but I know many does). It drives me crazy because just like those who enjoyed driving stick, there are others who enjoy the other side of the lost art too.
Yeah curious too...besides cropping, I wonder how large a print do you have to make in order to fully utilise the benefits of 36MP?
The A7r and D800E share a similar sensor. So far the sharpest lenses measured by DXOMark are the Otus/D800 and 55FE/A7r. We can't be sure that lenses can get any better than these two in sharpness, but it's safe to say that these two are the only ones that can possibly fully resolve 36MP. However, that is my view and I'm sure others will differ. When Sony come out with a 56MP sensor and the two lenses are proved to resolved more then only can we say that they full resolve 36MP.
But cropping is very useful as it can make your normals lens be a powerful telephoto lens if it fully resolves 36MP.
As you aptly showed, there is beauty in blur.
So its the sharpness of the lens. Thanks.
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I drive a stick too and it annoys the heck out of people when I tell them that they are not real men (even though I don't believe for a moment that you need to drive a stick shift to be a "real man")
Thoth
Senior Member
ha for a lens that costs 1/2 of the otus new and actually 1/3 of the otus since i got it 2nd hand, I'm impressed how it is performing according to the test charts you just showed!
the 50 1.2L was bought to be a portrait lens and the otus doesn't go down to F1.2 hehe...so no contest there. I don't need edge to edge critical sharpness for portraits la... landscape den different story.
50 1.2L using the a7r. My FE 55 while bitingly sharp can't get this kind of bokeh
Lai Lai... Let's play Bokeh... Make U dizzy!!! :bsmilie:
Thoth
Senior Member
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder... as long as it doesnt make U dizzy hor bro ZoomZ???
Yeah... bokeh is bokeh.... dizzy is dizzy. 2 different categories for me.
Smooth, creamy ones I get from wide apertures such as Canon 85mm F1.2 help to create the 3D look with object of focus standing out nicely against the understated, smooth background, thus tricking the eye not to focus on the background blur but on the object that you want the audience to focus. Like bro ricleo's baby shots, which I have a lot for my baby too. Looking at the photo lets you feel the happiness and emotions of the moment that you took the photo.
Dizzy ones get the audience to look at the dizzy bokeh, thus losing the point of the story and object of the photo.
Not criticising on any lens, as all lens are good tools for different purpose. It is the photographer who creates different images using the tools.
Right tools for the Right Job = Swee Swee
Wrong tools or the Wrong Job = Buah Swee.
Simple.
Smooth, creamy ones I get from wide apertures such as Canon 85mm F1.2 help to create the 3D look with object of focus standing out nicely against the understated, smooth background, thus tricking the eye not to focus on the background blur but on the object that you want the audience to focus. Like bro ricleo's baby shots, which I have a lot for my baby too. Looking at the photo lets you feel the happiness and emotions of the moment that you took the photo.
Dizzy ones get the audience to look at the dizzy bokeh, thus losing the point of the story and object of the photo.
Not criticising on any lens, as all lens are good tools for different purpose. It is the photographer who creates different images using the tools.
Right tools for the Right Job = Swee Swee
Wrong tools or the Wrong Job = Buah Swee.
Simple.
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Thoth
Senior Member
So swirly Bokeh definitely not yr cup of tea. Keke
You are right. The way that old lenses are valued are those with classic rendering with character, preferably smooth and creamy. Those appearing in magazines, art work, etc.
There is no "swirly" bokeh in those publishing at all.
There is no "swirly" bokeh in those publishing at all.
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