Is MiniDV on the way out?

[tchoonyong]

DVD R Media lifespan is mostly 5 years for commercial unless you get it professional created in studio than it is lifelong. Besides if you take good care of your harddisk it can be a lifelong product. But to me nothing is forever,new technology does not mean good but more flaws just like the recent windows vista.

 

[poh6702]

If "detolerate" means "deteriorate" then I would not agree. For years I used to back up my video projects onto DVD-R, but a few months back when I needed to retrieve some old projects, I found that several of my discs were unreadable. And that is using branded discs. I would not advise anybody to rely on DVD-R backup alone for long term storage. Now I am using RAIDed hard discs that are mirrored. Hopefully when there is a disk failure I will get a warning in time to take action.

I think whatever medium we select is going to have problems eventually.

Hi I mean the quality of the picture will not deteriorate, but if the disk become un-readable, then that is like HDD crash, everything gone. Agree with you, I also setup Mirrored HDD over the home network, plus another 200G USB drive in the office, plus portable drive carrying around. Have also copied all the DVD into the Mirror drive.

I beleive it depends on the storage conditon, my DVD-R so far so good, I even have music CDs for more then 15 years and they are still functioning without issue.

The most inportant approach is to be extra "kiasu", make as many copies as possible, than whatever media used is alright.

 

[tchoonyong]

depends on how often you used the medias

 

[canik7]

interesting topic. I read from some web site that miniDV have longer life stored under same condition as the DVD. It is claim to be 15years. But to be save always do backup.
I believe that miniDV and DVD will phase out once blueray is out and AVCHD is perfected.

But for now, i think miniDV is still a good investment for the next 5 years.

 

[tchoonyong]

agreed. But it also depends not just the technology but also non linear editing systems whether they supported these formats. And whether new camera will includes the firewire 400/800 cabling on these video cameras to supported the capturing of videos. You must also note of the mac/pc debates happening. Lack of manufacturers supporting mac os system of transferring videos thru usb. DVD/HDD Camcorders had not make it such easy to do editing at all alot of steps to go thru before importing videos to your pc/mac. Once all these are standardize then we will see a breakthru meaning can capture footages even if it is an DVD/HDD Camcorder. Hope Sony and Toshiba get it settle which is still a problem.

 

[wesley]

If "detolerate" means "deteriorate" then I would not agree. For years I used to back up my video projects onto DVD-R, but a few months back when I needed to retrieve some old projects, I found that several of my discs were unreadable. And that is using branded discs. I would not advise anybody to rely on DVD-R backup alone for long term storage. Now I am using RAIDed hard discs that are mirrored. Hopefully when there is a disk failure I will get a warning in time to take action.

I think whatever medium we select is going to have problems eventually.

Thanks for the insight. I am curious, what DVD brand were you using?

Kind regards
Wesley

 

[GoneForGood]

If "detolerate" means "deteriorate" then I would not agree. For years I used to back up my video projects onto DVD-R, but a few months back when I needed to retrieve some old projects, I found that several of my discs were unreadable. And that is using branded discs. I would not advise anybody to rely on DVD-R backup alone for long term storage. Now I am using RAIDed hard discs that are mirrored. Hopefully when there is a disk failure I will get a warning in time to take action.

I think whatever medium we select is going to have problems eventually.

I agree with you fully..Yes Yes...Nothing is for certain and including DVDs or CDs etc..
dont even say deteriorate but you may even lose your content completely. Branded does not mean anything too as i read from an article on videolifestyle on "how long dvdrs really last?" my father had told me the same thing being in the business that many valuable video dissapeared strangely in a matter of years so most will even prefer backing their stuff on tapes and even hardisk mirrored like jaegersing

goneforgood

 

[Hobbes00]

Ok, heres my little input,

P2 cards will bring MiniDV out! But that would be in the near future..

 

[jaegersing]

Ok, heres my little input,

P2 cards will bring MiniDV out! But that would be in the near future..

P2 cards are based on PCMCIA which is already going obsolete. But maybe the next gen P2 cards (whatever they happen to be called) based on PCI Express could be the real DV killer. And if Panasonic would only open up the format then natural competition would bring media prices way down and then the format would have a chance to take off properly.

 

[tchoonyong]

so far p2 is more for professional production than for consumer as they still believe in easy platform and less editing. It will take years to phase out minidv.p2 alos do not supports low end non linear editing systems like premiere elements,imovie etc...

 

[TME]

Hi, I am new to video recording... I understand that miniDV is considered high quality, however whenever I look at the quality recorded on trips with my students, the quality is really bad. Is it because in the encoding to AVI or MPEG, there has been significant compression?

Another question is: Can a HDD camcorder record in raw AVI? I.e. completely uncompressed?

 

[JRC]

From what i know, the best way now to capture directly into an editable video format (raw avi) is through firestore. Drawback is cost and weight.

P2 is way too expensive and out of reach.

i have not used either of them.;p

As for DVD-R, I believe how long they last depends also on the storage conditions. I also think that those sticker labels will slowly degrade and affect the data beneath the disc. No proof, just my belief.

 

[sundazz]

Ok, heres my little input,

P2 cards will bring MiniDV out! But that would be in the near future..

looking at the market trend.. i think P2 may push MiniDV out, but I dont think so soon..
I beleive miniDV still be in certain demand for another 3years or so.. :think:

 

[jaegersing]

Hi, I am new to video recording... I understand that miniDV is considered high quality, however whenever I look at the quality recorded on trips with my students, the quality is really bad. Is it because in the encoding to AVI or MPEG, there has been significant compression?

miniDV is just a format. The results depend a lot on the skills of the person using the camera too. But, assuming the shooting is done well, one possible cause of degradation is using compressed capture modes with Windows Moviemaker. Capturing DV format through firewire before editing is the way to maintain the best quality.

Another question is: Can a HDD camcorder record in raw AVI? I.e. completely uncompressed?

Not many cameras on the market can capture uncompressed, the data rates are very high and the file sizes are huge. Most HDD cams are using AVCHD which is a highly compressed format that currently is difficult to edit.

BTW, when people talk about "raw" for video cams it is often not very clear what they mean. In this case you specifically mention uncompressed so it is very clear, but sometimes people use "raw" to mean DV format which is actually compressed around 5:1.

 

[sundazz]

Hi, I am new to video recording... I understand that miniDV is considered high quality, however whenever I look at the quality recorded on trips with my students, the quality is really bad. Is it because in the encoding to AVI or MPEG, there has been significant compression?

miniDV is just a format. The results depend a lot on the skills of the person using the camera too. But, assuming the shooting is done well, one possible cause of degradation is using compressed capture modes with Windows Moviemaker. Capturing DV format through firewire before editing is the way to maintain the best quality.

well, the recording device to the post production suite do a part too.. there is a diff in quality between u paying few $k cam compare to a sub $1k cam..

 

[jaegersing]

well, the recording device to the post production suite do a part too.. there is a diff in quality between u paying few $k cam compare to a sub $1k cam..

Totally agree, everything affects the quality, and better cameras definitely produce better results.

In this case though, he is saying that the quality is "really bad", which is not normally the case for miniDV recording done well, even with a cheap camera. To me, this suggests that either he has very high expectations, or something serious is going on that's degrading the video quality. Most likely this would happen in the capture or encoding stage.

I could be wrong of course, and it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[tchoonyong]

Totally agree, everything affects the quality, and better cameras definitely produce better results.

In this case though, he is saying that the quality is "really bad", which is not normally the case for miniDV recording done well, even with a cheap camera. To me, this suggests that either he has very high expectations, or something serious is going on that's degrading the video quality. Most likely this would happen in the capture or encoding stage.

I could be wrong of course, and it wouldn't be the first time.

if he is using windows movie maker to capture out his videos it will be likely change that it is compressed to windows media video which is highly compressed as it do not capture in raw format(avi) only other software.

 

[vmcmedia]

Hi, I am new to video recording... I understand that miniDV is considered high quality, however whenever I look at the quality recorded on trips with my students, the quality is really bad. Is it because in the encoding to AVI or MPEG, there has been significant compression?

Another question is: Can a HDD camcorder record in raw AVI? I.e. completely uncompressed?

Another possibility why its bad may be insufficient lighting which may produce horrible grains..
Or if the setting is set wrongly..
Using LP tends to 'degrade' the quality...

P2 will not take over miniDV cos its too cumbursome..

My firestore can record raw DV but has other issues that makes it not user friendly...

Tapes are still the way to go..

 

[wilsonang]

I think some have mentioned some very important points in this thread...

In the industry, many are still using Mini Dv to produce dramas and other productions.

In fact, many of the block-busters are still shooting in film...

We need to understand that technology is advance but we are still pretty far from matching it with film... HD is here but its still in its prelimary stage where a lot of trail and hypothesis being tested... we have to agree that these high end production produced exciting pictures, but they still lack the traditional film feel...

coming back to mini Dv, most of the consumer series are recording based on so-call "uncompress" format which can be converted to AVI in our PCs...

Most HDD and DVD are capturing video using Mpeg2 compression. for AVC-HD, they are using the Mpeg 4 compression...

it would take some time for them to fine-tune the mpeg4 to flawless (which is virturely impossible now)...

Mini Dv will still be the way to go at least for me for the next 5-8yrs

 

[tchoonyong]

I think some have mentioned some very important points in this thread...

In the industry, many are still using Mini Dv to produce dramas and other productions.

In fact, many of the block-busters are still shooting in film...

We need to understand that technology is advance but we are still pretty far from matching it with film... HD is here but its still in its prelimary stage where a lot of trail and hypothesis being tested... we have to agree that these high end production produced exciting pictures, but they still lack the traditional film feel...

coming back to mini Dv, most of the consumer series are recording based on so-call "uncompress" format which can be converted to AVI in our PCs...

Most HDD and DVD are capturing video using Mpeg2 compression. for AVC-HD, they are using the Mpeg 4 compression...

it would take some time for them to fine-tune the mpeg4 to flawless (which is virturely impossible now)...

Mini Dv will still be the way to go at least for me for the next 5-8yrs

Agreed with u and so far the support for AVC-HD comes only on high end non linear editing software which is FCP 6.0.1,Vegas 7 and adobe premiere pro 2 not 1.5. And not many pple or broadcasters are willing to invested on high definition due to the bluray and hd dvd war.