How much do you charge for an AD wedding

[fotoudavid]

Then i talk mandrain u speak english haha:bsmilie:

in army, i always do this, and looks very funny, indian in english, and i replied in hokkien with mandrain, till someone pointed out, we never realised it.

no more OT.

Anyway, as mention by many here, most wanna breakthru, but find it tough initial stage, as Ckuang mention before, context must be good, u must sell something which is worth that much, else cannot sell that much.

Key point is, how good and good is a context gonna be? Besides skills, also album making, and i seriously thinks that a good DI artist will make ur works looks better. Guess my first step is source for a good one, and also shoot will a human heart as mention by Joho i think.

It must be stressful to charge as such level...........

 

[canturn]

With or without deducting cost?

As i am curious also, canturn, how much context in ur package u improve inorder to change?

I am intending to change the context of what i am offering, no more 4R!! Only offer coffee table album.

I also dun wish to do the album, like Kelvin says, let someone else who are better to do, just concentrate in shooting.

This transitions will be tough to what i see. First, album cannot be cheap, else how to pay the DI artist. My service rates also need to increase, cos at the same time must build some new clients base.

I stopped giving 4Rs since 2006, you can ask KT, I haven't been there for the longest time liao.

If you're going into coffee table album, then you'll have to figure out your cost, factoring the time that you need to do the layout (or outsource it to someone else to do for you) plus the amendments if you allow that. Bear in mind it's more costly to reprint an album vs 300 x 4R, so I would say anything less than a 70% margin isn't going to be very profitable? One of my assistants told me that he charges $600 for a coffee table album, and when I sat him down and work out the cost with him, he realised that giving 300 x 4R is still a lot more profitable.

Also, the more exclusive your books are, the more it is going to cost you, esp when you import those leatherbound books from US or Australia, freight charges alone will cost more than the books you obtain locally. Unless you are prepared to sell them in the regions of $3500 for a 12x12, it won't be worth your while for the among of work needed (not to mention waking up at 3am to call the supplier in US to make sure that the book comes on time)

It takes a lot of courage and switching to an entirely different clientele base is not for the faint hearted. Deliverables is just one

 

[fotoudavid]

I stopped giving 4Rs since 2006, you can ask KT, I haven't been there for the longest time liao.

If you're going into coffee table album, then you'll have to figure out your cost, factoring the time that you need to do the layout (or outsource it to someone else to do for you) plus the amendments if you allow that. Bear in mind it's more costly to reprint an album vs 300 x 4R, so I would say anything less than a 70% margin isn't going to be very profitable? One of my assistants told me that he charges $600 for a coffee table album, and when I sat him down and work out the cost with him, he realised that giving 300 x 4R is still a lot more profitable.

Also, the more exclusive your books are, the more it is going to cost you, esp when you import those leatherbound books from US or Australia, freight charges alone will cost more than the books you obtain locally. Unless you are prepared to sell them in the regions of $3500 for a 12x12, it won't be worth your while for the among of work needed (not to mention waking up at 3am to call the supplier in US to make sure that the book comes on time)

It takes a lot of courage and switching to an entirely different clientele base is not for the faint hearted. Deliverables is just one

Thks. I will google, and find the album. I guess need to throw in some money to get it right, i have build 2 times already for my client base, hope that this time round will make it right.

 

[mutant]

For those apprentice attached to bridal companies, initially how many % commission they take and after become stable (ie. a no. of weddings done) how many % commisssion they take? Any rough figures?

 

[artbox]

$200 an hour
$2 per 4R
Free Album ;p

 

[snowspeeder]

For those apprentice attached to bridal companies, initially how many % commission they take and after become stable (ie. a no. of weddings done) how many % commisssion they take? Any rough figures?

IF you're referring to freelancers attached to bridal studios (can be either newbies or uncles), from what I know they don't get commission. They can be paid as low as $250 for a whole day's AD work. Image no need edit, just throw back to bridal studio to take care of it. :thumbsd:

 

[mutant]

Oh ok, thanks for the figures, now roughly I know how much to expect.

 

[canturn]

IF you're referring to freelancers attached to bridal studios (can be either newbies or uncles), from what I know they don't get commission. They can be paid as low as $250 for a whole day's AD work. Image no need edit, just throw back to bridal studio to take care of it. :thumbsd:

SGD$250 is lot of ringgit for that kind of work, if you think about it.

 

[blurrblurr]

actually if doing it for part time is also alot if they call you 4 times a month is $1000. especially when no pp needed.

 

[catchlights]

actually if doing it for part time is also alot if they call you 4 times a month is $1000. especially when no pp needed.

Good money?

well, let me tell you about the risks...

Risk #1, serving bad company

Risk #2, serving a demanding customer

 

[jetfynn]

Good money?

well, let me tell you about the risks...

Risk #1, serving bad company

Risk #2, serving a demanding customer

Add to that:

Risk #3, Serving a bad customer + demanding customer + lousy paymaster.

 

[mutant]

Wah.. Thanks for the insight..

 

[Deadpoet]

Prices can be deceiving. I hate to be blunt here but I will.

Recently a friend of mine engaged a photographer, supposedly well-recommended and he's featured somewhere here and elsewhere. Of cos, sorry, can't reveal the name. His price is about what you will think is reasonable of that sort of calibre.

Before the wedding, he was friendly and all that. All emails were promptly replied. When the deposit had been paid, it was difficult to reach him. Unreplied emails, etc.

The shots turned out generally ok, but from what I see, there were unpardonable technical mistakes that I wouldn't make myself as a non-pro.

And in case you believe in the "WPJA" label, I'd say forget it. I've encountered 2 phtographers who are WPJA members. Their shots look nice on their website, but when it comes to a personal shoot, it ain't fantastic.

I'm not sure about this WPJA thingy, but I suspect you just take your best shots and submit for application? That's the problem if it is. BEST shots. Surely everyone has some Best shots in a wedding but if the overall is nothing fantastic then what's the point?

So if you want to be ethical, price it based on what you feel your couples deserve. And make sure you deliver the job as promised.

How do you know how "bad" the shots are when I did not reveal them?

Anyway, I disagree with your first statement. If the photos will not look as good as what is shown on the website then what's the point of enganging the top photographer? Don't even need to talk about Singapore, but the world's best. The client pays big money, the standards must be achieved. Otherwise, why do clients waste time looking at portfolios?

Of course I don't mean you will expect to look like a Tom Cruise just because the engaged photographer have taken shots of him. Neither is it that the couple's smiles or background will be as nice as that featured in the websites.

But I'm referring to the technical aspects. That's the most basic one can ever expect of a pro photographer.

Based on what i see, I think most couples who have no knowledge in photography will accept the images. I have seen my colleagues' reaction at their own pictures and they go like "Wah, I like them!" I'm like, Ermmm.. *silence* There's inaccuracy in colour balance and composition so-so and stuffs like that.

Moreover, with digital, even though photographers return the high res images, I'm not sure if many bother to open them. And if they do, it's probably just at small sizes. They are more interested in the final prints.

For my friend's case, problem is, when you print those images out, they look all right. But when you pixel peep, you will see the flaws. Compostion looks all right. But technically, not how I would shoot. I suspect with digital, there is a boom in photographers and I'm not sure where they get their training from. Some of their works do not conform to what good photography should. And it's more surprising when they are WPJA members.

I wish I could divulge more, but I won't jeopardize the photographer's reputation here. For those interested, maybe you can PM me and I will ask my friend if he's willing to share with you more. In fact, he dearly wants to find out if it's normal for a pro wedding photographer to take shots like that after I pointed out to him the flaws.

I hate to point it out, you are just full of it. I was not going to comment on this at all, but one statement caught my eyes, and, well, something has to be said.

"... pixel peep ..." Who does that? At the end of the day, the print, in 4R, S8R, A4 or whatever format, is what counts. You said it yourself, the printed images look all right, then why pixel peep? What is the reason for pixel peeping. And at the end of the day, the photographer has only one client and one set of goal, to satisfy the client, the wedding couple. If as you said, the wedding couple, whom are not serious photographers, like the pictures, whether you like what you saw after peeping on the pixels, is irreverent!

By the way, it appears you feel that the wedding couple are not qualify to judge. Are you qualify to judge? And one more thing, they were happy with what they got, and what is your problem, making them question the "memories" of their wedding day. Very scrouge like behavior.

 

[kiwi2]

I hate to point it out, you are just full of it. I was not going to comment on this at all, but one statement caught my eyes, and, well, something has to be said.

"... pixel peep ..." Who does that? At the end of the day, the print, in 4R, S8R, A4 or whatever format, is what counts. You said it yourself, the printed images look all right, then why pixel peep? What is the reason for pixel peeping. And at the end of the day, the photographer has only one client and one set of goal, to satisfy the client, the wedding couple. If as you said, the wedding couple, whom are not serious photographers, like the pictures, whether you like what you saw after peeping on the pixels, is irreverent!

By the way, it appears you feel that the wedding couple are not qualify to judge. Are you qualify to judge? And one more thing, they were happy with what they got, and what is your problem, making them question the "memories" of their wedding day. Very scrouge like behavior.

Well, well... What do we have here. My enemy from CS!

I know enough about photography to judge whether a photo is well-taken. Bad lighting, off colours. It's obvious.

I have a question for you. You have a notorious reputation here of putting down many who post their works in the Portrait Section. Some CS members commented "Nice shot", "Well-done", "Good work" and you get all irritated with such comments, accusing them of poor judgments and low standards.

I will now use your own earlier accusation back on you: Who are you to judge? So what if others feel that those portrait shots looked good? By your own words, you have "very scrouge like behaviour". :bsmilie:

I wonder what you have to say to the above. On second thoughts, forget it, who cares.

Your talk is cheap cos you don't need to pay anything to write those sarcastic comments. But some couples pay big money to photographers to deliver them the quality. Shouldn't they expect quality whether they fully appreciate it or not?

It seems you have searched for this old post to get back on me simply cos we have encountered each other b4 on a bad note? If so, I'd say Get a life. Know what you are saying b4 you write anything.

 

[xziredmp]

i do understand sometimes couples pay for this particular photographer expecting the highest standards and expecting the photog to deliver what they saw on his website.

but i am sure the photog would have told the couple that he would do his very best to deliver what is expected but no gurantee with shots matching to the website or portfolio.

i guess its unfair to the photog to be looking at just pixels really.

and to what i know and what i do.

how beautiful a photo/gallery/images/album is, depends NOT solely on the photog himself. but how lovely the wedding is, how participative, how sporty, and the mood of the overall event itself...

so if the wedding is like "boring" or not much is happening, u can expect the photographer to depict or describe the event to be so nice, so fun so wonderful when theres not even a nice mood to start with.

The photog is shooting for the couple. therefore the first person he has to fulfill would be the couple themselves. if the couple is happy with the works. den his job would have been accomplished.

i've seen people who are not friends of the couple, friends of the couple or relatives of the couple who knows a bit of photography, and when they look at the images, they can say things like "wah. this angle so lousy. he should have stood here, use *what lens what lens* and shoot from here, sure better den this image" and alot of other million dollar questions and comments.

problem is. these people. talk so much. but never experience or shot one himself/herself, or being put into a AD photographer's shoes.

talk is cheap yes.

But unless you have experienced what a wedding photographer goes through on a AD, i guess NO ONE would have the RIGHT to criticize the views and perspective of the photographer. I am sure most wedding photogrpahers do not go around critiquing each other works and telling him/her what to do.

Quality is being general.How do you define quality. Quality by looking at pixels or looking at technical excellence ?

so if you are talking about better pixels being of better quality. so are u telling me that all the wedding photogs in US and EU and Uk are lousy because they use DSLR and not MF ?

Theres no point in being pixel peeping, becase i feel that even if the picture is taken with good composition and displayed technical excellence, but its in a 1mp camera, it would still worth more than a image with 20mp, and just ordinary looking.

if a ad photog uses a 2 mp camera, shoots the whole day, wonderful images. but the downside is that he can only print 4r, not bigger, and deliver in slightly smaller images rather den 2mp. i guess people would still pay big bucks for his persective and not pixel. That is why u DUN see photogs marketing themselves like "Shooting your wedding with a Nikon D3, or a Hasselblad H2D, delivery images in the highest pixel count possible"

personally. when talking about wedddings and when u go into talking about pixel counts. i guess you have come into a wrong forum. probably hardwarezone is the place for pixel peepers.

weddings is about mood, feeling, good image composition and images that portray accurate happenings during the event. and not about pixels.

i hope your perspective about wedding photogs should change. otherwise. i would feel that its a shame for me to write so much, and do little convincing.

my 2 singaporean cents for the month.

 

[xziredmp]

Well, well... What do we have here. My enemy from CS!

I know enough about photography to judge whether a photo is well-taken. Bad lighting, off colours. It's obvious.

You know enough ? i didnt know there was a limit on photography, and you knew enough t judge a photo ?

Bad lighting and off colours can be forms of technical excellence or artistic expressions, if you knew enough why didnt you interpret it as a form of artistic expression ?

Photography is a skill of infinite knowledge, which knows no boundaries. You can base upon knowledge, and experience. But never people go around telling others he/she know enough about photography to judge.

Please be more humble.

Your talk is cheap cos you don't need to pay anything to write those sarcastic comments. But some couples pay big money to photographers to deliver them the quality. Shouldn't they expect quality whether they fully appreciate it or not?

It seems you have searched for this old post to get back on me simply cos we have encountered each other b4 on a bad note? If so, I'd say Get a life. Know what you are saying b4 you write anything.

Couples pay big money to photographers to deliver quality. Like you said. Couples.

Are you the couple ?

Shouldnt they expect quality ? Like in my previous respond. How do u define quality ? Quality in terms of Expressions / moments or Quality by print ? Quality by how BIG the pixel is ?

i do not know what is happening between you and deadpoet. But in my stand. i think you are not being nice, and definately not humble.

please...

 

[Hommie]

Huh? Bro, you getting personal here. Bombarded by me? Since when? You sure you got the right person? Please show me where I bombarded.

If you feel miserable then switch jobs lor.

Ha, you seem to imply you've made it big since you said you shouldn't be wasting your time here?

I don't mind wasting my time, cos I'm not a full-time wedding photographer. So I have the time to spare. To be honest, I'm waiting for 5pm to come. You?

P.S. Gosh, you are Colourdots?? :think: Opps....

Huh? Personal? Since when? I don't feel miserable, what makes you think so? No wonder you misconstrued the majority of the posts. I love my job, I love doing what I do. Sure I make sacrifices here and there and the going gets tough now and then, but I'm living my dream.

I'm implying that I made it big? I don't want to end up insulting your inferential abilities dude, but I think you got it wrong. I mean I should follow those who made it big and not waste time on this thread like you said. Darn, I did it again, wasted more time on this thread. No wonder I'm not a big-timer. Clear enough this time?

Oh yes, I'm Ken, the founder/photographer of Colourdots Photography. Wedding photography specialist. I live and breathe wedding photography, and love to see clients enjoying my work. And you are?

Perhaps you like to show us what you do and answer shinken's question??

 

[Luval]

i hate to point this out also .. no one in wedding pixel peep at the photo,, it has not happen to me when my client tel me, they understand essential for photography to turn out in a certain way of which is different from their perception during that day. We are only in control in a certain degree of the environment and lighting during that day. I have to agree with DP.. the couple is the final decision maker. whether are they in the right mind to judge is really up to them. NO One has the right to put them down basis on another person opinion and they so called broad knowledge in photography.

 

[2100]

Lancey, do you have any website/gallery and testimonials from couples that you can share?

 

[Deadpoet]

i hate to point this out also .. no one in wedding pixel peep at the photo
....
the couple is the final decision maker. whether are they in the right mind to judge is really up to them. NO One has the right to put them down basis on another person opinion and they so called broad knowledge in photography.

Cannot agree more.

Well, well... What do we have here. My enemy from CS!

I know enough about photography to judge whether a photo is well-taken. Bad lighting, off colours. It's obvious.

I have a question for you. You have a notorious reputation here of putting down many who post their works in the Portrait Section. Some CS members commented "Nice shot", "Well-done", "Good work" and you get all irritated with such comments, accusing them of poor judgments and low standards.

I will now use your own earlier accusation back on you: Who are you to judge? So what if others feel that those portrait shots looked good? By your own words, you have "very scrouge like behaviour". :bsmilie:

I wonder what you have to say to the above. On second thoughts, forget it, who cares.

Your talk is cheap cos you don't need to pay anything to write those sarcastic comments. But some couples pay big money to photographers to deliver them the quality. Shouldn't they expect quality whether they fully appreciate it or not?

It seems you have searched for this old post to get back on me simply cos we have encountered each other b4 on a bad note? If so, I'd say Get a life. Know what you are saying b4 you write anything.

Actually kiwi2, I have no idea who you are. If I have slammed you, well, good for you, and you are just one of many.

Did I dig this thread out just to get back at someone whom I have no recollection of? You tell me. I was bored, and your original actions re the wedding couple were not only out of place, but mean spirited.

I slam bad pictures that are posted on a public forum. I don't go to friend's photo album, and criticize the pictures, because they were in a private domain. Your wedding couple friends' wedding album is in a private domain. And beside, wedding pictures are to capture memories. Why do you have to bust the bubble of their beautiful memories?? That is mean spirited.