Home studio setup

[jeanie]

just have to try to catch the dancer at the top of the movement, when the dancer is almost stationary in the air... what the NBA calls hangtime... that is when relative velocity is minimum... 's all about timing...

rbk ah rbk,

you know how fast my friends jump?it's really like a split second.
and of course they dont hang in the air as long as michael jordan lah!:bsmilie:
really not easy to shoot man.

i've been receiving pm asking me why do such difficult shoots for a newbie.

 

[Spectrum]

rbk ah rbk,

you know how fast my friends jump?it's really like a split second.
and of course they dont hang in the air as long as michael jordan lah!:bsmilie:
really not easy to shoot man.

i've been receiving pm asking me why do such difficult shoots for a newbie.

Well, you challenging yourself? You must take note of many things that happens in that split second too.
Like what RBK mentioned the hangtime. Is really not as easy as it seems to capture something that still look moving but freezed in that motion. Many shots have been taken to achieve that. And as you mentioned it happens really like a split second. So, what does this means. Practise more. As you get the hang of how to get that hangtime (even within a split second) as you press that shutter release button, I believe you'll get much sharper shots than before.
Good luck & all the best.

 

[jeanie]

Well, you challenging yourself? You must take note of many things that happens in that split second too.
Like what RBK mentioned the hangtime. Is really not as easy as it seems to capture something that still look moving but freezed in that motion. Many shots have been taken to achieve that. And as you mentioned it happens really like a split second. So, what does this means. Practise more. As you get the hang of how to get that hangtime (even within a split second) as you press that shutter release button, I believe you'll get much sharper shots than before.
Good luck & all the best.

wo hui jia you de.
XIE XIE!:sweatsm: :lovegrin:

 

[jeanie]

i tried my best...really.

1/250, f5.6-f8 most of the time.
placed the lights REALLY near to dancer.very worried about their safety, not so much so of the strobes.

i regret not doing enough homework to buy better lights that has a faster shutter speed.
i really appreciate you guys' advice and help.

a peck for all.:kiss:

 

[Spectrum]

Always get the light to the subject (esp. the face). Now her arm is blocking the light although there's some fill-in light to it, but that's not enough.
Do check out where you want the main light to be hitting at the subject.
Her hand posture is kindda awkward too. But overall sharpness is there.
Is hard to get the feet sharp as her legs is swaying to both direction. Unless you ask them to just jump up & down. This will have a higher chance to get shaper pics as mentioned before the hangtime.
Have fun & all the best.

 

[jeanie]

Always get the light to the subject (esp. the face). Now her arm is blocking the light although there's some fill-in light to it, but that's not enough.
Do check out where you want the main light to be hitting at the subject.
Her hand posture is kindda awkward too. But overall sharpness is there.
Is hard to get the feet sharp as her legs is swaying to both direction. Unless you ask them to just jump up & down. This will have a higher chance to get shaper pics as mentioned before the hangtime.
Have fun & all the best.

thanks spectrum.

 

[vince123123]

I find that the same shot can be done without actually having the dancer to jump in the air - and thereby solve your freezing issues.

Some just ask the dancer to dot he motion with one foot not leaving the ground. Sometimes for "impossible" looking shots, they are done by asking the dancer to lie on the side on the floor and shooting from above.

 

[jeanie]

I find that the same shot can be done without actually having the dancer to jump in the air - and thereby solve your freezing issues.

Some just ask the dancer to dot he motion with one foot not leaving the ground. Sometimes for "impossible" looking shots, they are done by asking the dancer to lie on the side on the floor and shooting from above.

to me, that's 'cheating'.though there are not hard fast rules about shooting this.
very the 'bo seh' lei.:bsmilie:

 

[Spectrum]

Another thing is using a trampoline. But HDB ceiling is too low for that kind of stunt.

 

[jeanie]

i was actually thinking to book a concert hall, or theater to do a shoot.

but really, using a trampoline is like 'insulting' the dancers.
it's like telling them "eh, your jump cannot make it.use trampoline lah!":bsmilie:

jus kidding.

but safety first for my friends.i will only let them do things within their own limits.pictures to me are secondary.

 

[vince123123]

If everything also you want to preserve the truthfulness of it, I'd say you need to spend a lot of money ro time to get your shot. To me, what is more important is the end result, rather than the setup/process.

Most artistic photographs do not reflect the truth of things anyway - unless you want to focus on news reporting and journalism.

 

[jeanie]

guys,
have a look.the higher leg in air seems sharp but not the lower leg.

 

[jeanie]

some replies from bowens' forum

Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #3 on: Apr 29th, 2007, 12:45pm » Quote Modify

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Dear Jeanie,

about point no.2, i think i offer explanation :
1. once i have the photos same as your problem, and i realise that in long succession photo i get my hand shaking. maybe because of to tired. i solve with tripod used.
2. the second possibilities are the dancer move so fast particularly at the legs. so it blurred while the rest is sharp. but how fast it is? the dolphin can be freezed in 1/500 second, but its only at the peak point of jump which freeze itself at once. maybe you could try the same with the dancer. yes, in modern studio flash like esprit if you reduce the power you shortened the durations, but not with older one like 400D. (it is mine)
3. if you use cable to trigger the flash, please check it if broken. broken cable could delayed the flash triggered. and so with the radio trigger, check the battery. try changing the unit from and side to side, and for main light and background light. yes there is also chance the softbox glowing just after flashing, (we call it flourescent-effect), but it very rare possibilities. try without one.

hope these can solve the problems.

Alex.
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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #4 on: Apr 29th, 2007, 2:42pm » Quote Modify

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You would need the Gemine 750+ here that have a flash duration at only t=0.5 1/2380 sec.

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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #5 on: May 1st, 2007, 7:56pm » Quote Modify

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I share an interest in dance photography. This is what I've learned:

1) The best dance photography is done with lighting that has selectable flash duration and the flash is usually at a minimum of 1/3000th of a second. These are mega-expensive packs.

2) In a darkened studio, the sync speed of the camera has nothing to do with stopping action: the flash does it all (and 1/250th wouldn't stop action anyway)

3) The workaround is close to what you are doing: lower the power on the strobe to decrease flash duration. To make it simple, use one strobe overhead and off to the side. Take the softbox off to gain a stop (or more) to lower power (and decrease alleged flash duraction). You may need to go from ideal 100 ISO to less than ideal 400 iso.

4) You're going to have to direct the dancer to control the speed of hands and feet. If he/she blasts through a phrase you are going to have blur. If its controlled or if you shoot at the apex, you can better freeze the action.

5) Its helpful to shoot with a remote as you are looking directly at the dance (not throught the viewfinder.) Also, you may want to manually prefocus on a set spot in the studio.

Hope this helps.

TR

 

[catchlights]

that's should explain all, but will you spend the $$ to buy the ultra fast flash duration flash for this??

 

[jeanie]

that's should explain all, but will you spend the $$ to buy the ultra fast flash duration flash for this??

good question.dunno boy....i might just sell off the esprits and get better packs cos i can shoot portraiture and dance shots?:dunno:

 

[jeanie]

ok.more confusing stuffs for you guys.

someone actually did a test!
RESPECT:thumbsup:

taken from BOWENS forum.

Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #10 on: May 2nd, 2007, 3:20pm » Quote Modify

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TRPhoto, you have to increase the power to get a shorter flash duration, not decrease.
Strange enough you get the shortest flash duration on your highest power.
Or am I the confused one here.lol
Matt
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2007, 3:27pm by MWPhoto » IP Logged

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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #11 on: May 2nd, 2007, 4:52pm » Quote Modify

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Matt, I wish you were correct as it would make strobes cheaper. If you look at manuals by makers who document duration over different power settings you'll see something like this(energy)/(flash duration):
1200Ws/ 1/560s
600Ws/ 1/1000s
300Ws/ 1/1800s
150Ws/ 1/3200s
(From my manual for a small 3 head pack)
You can also run a very simple experiment to verify.
TR

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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #12 on: May 2nd, 2007, 6:55pm » Quote Modify

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I just did a test.
Left pic is shot on F4, 1/125 and 23.4Ws.
Right pic is shot on F20 1/125 and 750Ws.

The Esprit Gemini 750+ have t=0.5 1/2380 sec. on the spec.

EOS20D mounted on tripod with EF50 1.8 MF (prefocused) Remote was dropped from 150cm and shot about 50cm from the floor repeatable times. All pics shows that with the higher flash power the "tail" gets shorter. Clear on the red button and the text although I thought I would see a bigger difference.
Big picture:
http://mwphoto.diinoweb.com/files/f%F6r%20l%E4nkning/flashsyncspeedtest2 3_4_vs_750Ws.jpg

I dont want to say Im right, becasue Im not sure yet. I understand that I might have missed teh focus slightly on F4 but Im still trying to look at the movement blur, not the OOF if any.


« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2007, 8:22pm by MWPhoto » IP Logged

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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #13 on: Today at 1:02am » Quote Modify

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Matt,
Do you realize that--in 2007--we are recreating an experiment by Galileo (actually he used an inclined plane) which proved that dropped items are accelerating at a constant rate? Thus your approach introduces a significant variable (the remote is accelerating from 0 m/s to close to 9 m/s in your short drop). Can you photograph something moving (not accelerating) at a fixed rate (ie someone walking across a room?) Assuming you are shooting at iso100, F20 may be near max power (depends on distance.) Have you though about why the remote was not frozen at max power (1/2380) under your theory?
TR

 

[catchlights]

Thanks for sharing,
very interesting reading.

 

[lsisaxon]

good question.dunno boy....i might just sell off the esprits and get better packs cos i can shoot portraiture and dance shots?:dunno:

What you can do is get a few more strobes. Since you have a few of them firing together, you have the option to set each of them to a lower power setting so the duration is shorter.

Essentially when you half the power, the duration will be halved also, to get back the same power, you would need 2 flash. When you quarter the power, the duration also quarters but you'll need 4x the number of flashes.

If you know a certain duration is sufficient to freeze the motion, then that is the highest power you can use for all the flashes. In that case, increasing the ISO or opening up the aperture if possible may give you what you desire.

I can't help stress the importance of knowing your equipment.

 

[jeanie]

What you can do is get a few more strobes. Since you have a few of them firing together, you have the option to set each of them to a lower power setting so the duration is shorter.

Essentially when you half the power, the duration will be halved also, to get back the same power, you would need 2 flash. When you quarter the power, the duration also quarters but you'll need 4x the number of flashes.

If you know a certain duration is sufficient to freeze the motion, then that is the highest power you can use for all the flashes. In that case, increasing the ISO or opening up the aperture if possible may give you what you desire.

I can't help stress the importance of knowing your equipment.

i got it.
but getting more lights is not an option for me.really no more space liao.

 

[jeanie]

somemore replies from bowens forum

Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #15 on: May 3rd, 2007, 9:43am » Quote Modify Remove

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hi all,

so can i say...

that if i really want to freeze motion in studio, i need better (AKA more expensive) lights?
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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #16 on: May 3rd, 2007, 4:30pm » Quote Modify

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Yes Jeanie, you do
Matt
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Re: freezing dance jumps
« Reply #17 on: May 3rd, 2007, 5:02pm » Quote Modify

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Yes, highly engineered (expensive) packs better control flash duration and are often specifically built for that (ie their “speed’ units). If you look at the average on camera flash, strobe or pack, the duration is longer as the power increases. You can look at dynalite (http://www.dynalite.com/fwi_tech.html) or profoto (http://www.profoto-usa.com/customerservice/manuals/) and they are explicit in their description of duration. But elinchrom does definitely quote shorter durations at higher power settings for some packs.

Duration is not shutter speed in that the light builds up over time (thus the duration). That is why you probably need to experiment to determine what your specific lighting set up equates to as the de facto shutter speed.

You may want to ask the distributor, for the average pack, what exactly is creating the light. Is there a little potentiometer that you dial up for light (like the dashboard light on your car) and the bulb burns brighter, or is the light building up over time (duration) to create an exposure. Or, mostly likely, a combination.

I think that we can agree that the original poster will probably need to a least cut in half the duration of her current flash to completely freeze the action. Does she add power or take it away?

TR