Hobbes00 aka David-Case Closed

[alex31]

Hobbes00
Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 134
iTrader: 0/0%

Re: Hobbes00 aka David-Police Case on the way

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Hi everyone, thanks for all those who have contributed to this attention-seeking thread.
I will not be trying to justify myself as it will not prove anything.
Here are afew points I would like to state...

In all productions I take up, I will always complete on time stated in the confirmation E-mail I sent out. It is the best way to protect myself - and my family (if you are a like alex)

**************************************************

I explained to Alex that completing this fully editted video will take quite a long time. Thus I did not put a date as I would not like to disappoint anyone - He agreed to it when he confirm that I was taking the job.

Trying to be as professional as possible, let me clearly state that Alex have decided to pull out of the contract. Editting is STILL underway indeed.

So when a client comes to you and force you to cancel the contract and forces you to conform to HIS new contract, what would you do?

He threaten me many times to post stuff in this forum and get the police involved.
Please note, the "I call police" came in LONG time ago before we talk about disolving the contract and returning the raw footages to him.

He is just showing you one side of the coin.

I intend to take his offer to be threated like an immature boy and return him the raw footage and the $200.

**************************************************

Now let me explain afew extra stuff that poped out of Alex's starter post.

1) MoonLighting
- What does this have to do with this contract to begin with - UNLESS it is a personal attack?? Is that what this thread is really all about??

2) I started making videos when I was sec1 when I met sam. Thats right.

3) Regarding the link Gryphon posted about, it shows one side of a coin. I will not talk about the other side as this isn't a courtroom. Typical singaporean..

4) Regarding the need to learn to have a better attitute and communication skills and the need to stop pissing my clients off, here is what I have to add....
- I have done to date, 74 Productions - 70 of them ended with a wide grin on the client's face. I guess I have to try much harder.

5) I really appreicate all of you guys who have talk about my work in such a nice way - but to be honest, my work isnt that good; theres so much more to learn.

************************************************** *
To end this, with over 450 hits on this thread alone within 12 hours.

I would like to gladly wish everyone an awesome chinese new year(or holiday)

I am STILL doing what I do - video productions. (With a team of video-producers and photographers)

Regards,
David Liu
My number is stated above


*I do not intend to reply to this thread anymore. As it may spark into an endless debate.
I URGE THOSE WHO HAVE ANYTHING TO CLARIFY TO PRIVATE MESSAGE ME.
What I have said is from my heart, without the mask of professionalism.
It may sound crude, but I realise that many of my clients I work with prefer guys who are frank and fresh.

Dear All guys out there,

Thank you for all the post you have put in, I know that most of them will stand on his side but there will be some who thinks that if there is no smoke, there won't be fire.

First of all, I would go into little details what had happened between us. On our last discussion before the breakout, he gave his word that he will send me the thriller by last Friday after more than 3 weeks. His reason was because his partner had play him out so he has to do himself. Two days before last Friday, I called him to check on the progress but he didn't answer the call. I tried to call on Thursday & lastly Friday nite, then he just send me an sms to tell me he will email me. Knowing that he didn't keep his word, I trying him to find out what happened. He chose not to answer my call but just sms me. My patience has wore off after he informed me that he will returned me the footage without fulfilling the work & he will not refund the money. What I want is a edited video & some co-operation from him, not the money itself. But he dare not talk to me but just sms makes me think he must have done something wrong.

I told him that I will give him another two weeks to finish what he have not done but he chose not to, which I think he did not honour his words. After I made the post on the forum, he sms me next day to settle it. He did sms saying to return the footage & when I ask him what about the deposit I have paid, he sms me that he will refund the $200. I sms him that I will take a $100 back from him as I know he make an effort to do it for me, I don't want to get the tapes for free.

On top of that, I told him I will not post anymore in the thread but the $200 refund that he put in the thread is wrong. Thus I have to pen down what is the fact.

By the way, for that person who write down you paid peanuts, u get monkey & the person who wrote "Song Bo"..... Think before you write. Last year, I manage to pay a production company for $500 to shoot the event & get 17 copies of DVD. I didn't get them this year because the editing is not that great, therefore when I saw David's work, I like it & told him the idea & told him the budget that I can afford, he agreed to it & lastly, he raise up to $550 which I agreed. We have another professional photographer who took all pictures for us in the event at no charges even we want to refund some transport charges, but he didn't even take it. Is he a monkey? No, because this is his passion....

David, if you see this post, as per agreed in the sms, I will meet you at the Lavender MRT Control station to collect the footage & $100 after 8pm. For those who want to know more or see the actual email/sms from him, I welcome you to check it out since most of you thinks that he is right. I have nothing to hide & I welcome your question to me.
If a person can spend time for meetup & discussion, but he can delay my DVD which he told me only last week he just started editing, I believe I have a case to be offended.

Going forward, I invited anyone who wants to edit my footage for a budget $400 with some requirement from me, please pm me & let me know the time frame.

Thank you
Alex

 

[alex31]

One more thing to note, I did not pull out the contract & also allow him to work on the footage for another two weeks but he chose not to.

Btw, I did not post another thread becos I am not so free. My low post is becos I only came here to look for freelancer videographer.....

End of my post for now.

 

[Hobbes00]

There once was a noble man who wanted to have a nice painting of his house done.
So he went to look for famous artists who were specialise in painting buildings.

He went door to door from famous artists to the not so famous ones, he was delighted by the work these artists could come up with but he realised he did not have enough pounds to pay these renowned painters as he was on a tight budget.

So after a long day of searching, on his way home.. He bum into a young teenager painting a picture of his house. The noble man was pretty impressed by his work and approch the young lad and asked if he was interested in painting a portrait for him.

The young lad was happy that the noble man appreicated his work, he then took out paintings of forts and palaces that he was commisioned to do sometime ago.
The noble man was really impressed. He then sat down with the boy and talked about what sort of portait he would like.
Like all the other painting jobs, the boy would listen and work in his head the workplan and expenses so he could quote this noble man accurately.

The boy then wrote nicely on a small scroll on the services the nobleman could expect.
One of the point in the scroll was that the boy would work on the painting daily, for as long as it takes until the painting is done to the standards of the noble man.

They agreed on 500 pounds. They both set a date and both happily parted.

On the day itself, the lad brought down big professional sheets and equipment. THE FINEST.
So the boy got to work, and starting painting.... the man paid the boy 250 pounds up front.

After sometime, the noble got impatient and talked to the boy about hows the painting going..
The boy replied it was fine but it will not be finish sometime soon.
As another week past, the noble got even more impatient, he tried to talk to the boy about completing it faster daily. But the boy being as frank as possible told the noble that it is not possible it will take more time.
After much pestering and going to the boy's house and affecting his school work and life.
The boy assured the noble once more, he is working on the painting. Infact it was halfway done..

God knows what happened to the nobleman but he got pissed as he wanted his picture of his house so badly. He left a note at the boys home saying "you can choose between giving back the uncompleted painting of the house AND the 200 pounds, or finish the painting within two weeks"

The boy was terribliy puzzled. The first option did not make sense... He spend hours on the painting, using a very very professional paintbrush and colourpaints. And now it would be taken away from him and he will not get paid at all for the work he has done so far!!

The second option sounded fine, but its against everything it was meant to be..
The project was suppose to be as long as to paint a nice picture of the house - but now it has changed, the boy has two weeks only!

The boy realised this noble was up to no good, he to himself. "wtf" He sent a note back saying, both options are a no no.

The noble then threaten the boy via another note saying he will bring it up to the police and also post notes all over town about how the boy owes him a painting.

The boy did not slept for the night, he was worried and troubled.
The boy replied, if you want the painting back please do not do anything silly like posting notes all over town talking about the painting job.

That very night, the noble sent out servants to pin notes all around town talking about how this lad 'cheated' him of his money and how bad his services are.

The next morning the boy was shocked to see the whole town talking about him.
He was really depressed. But it wasnt that bad, most of the town acutally talk about positive things about him. This really assured the boy.. but he was still disturbed.

The boy was very very down, he call a meeting with his fellow classmates, his parents and even a police officer and a district judge who lived next door.

The boy remembered how his mother taught him about costumer servicel; the costumer is always number one. The costumer have the right to be an ass. So on and so forth.

But in this case, the costumer was too much, the policewomen told the boy to drop the project. And everyone agreed, as working with the noble was really quite a pain in the ass.

Now everywhere the boy walk people will be talking about him... thanks to the noble.
The boy did nothing wrong to deserve this.. and now the noble wants the canvas and the 200 pounds back!

The boy knew this was too much.
The noble broke the contract rules.
The noble threaten the boy and his family
The noble publicise about how bad the boy was.
The noble told the whole town where the boy lived
The noble wants the painting the boy was working on for weeks!
The noble wants to rob the boy of the 200pounds he was given earlier

When the town council found out about the notes, they took it down..
But the very next day the noble post new fresh notes!!!

Now now now the boy is pissed.

The boy keeps the painting in his home vault.
His message is clear, he will not give in
This is not about a service provider and a client
This is not about a 200pounds and a painting
This is about ****. and how a boy will deal with it.

*****************************************************************

I urge all service providers esp. when you are doing something out of charity. I lowered my prices SO LOW for Mr.Alex because he really pester me again and again over his tight budget. And now I get this ****.

We made two contracts, and you broke both of them . So get alife, if you want the raw copies I will glady give you but you HAVE to pay for the expenses and services I had already provided.
And since this is OUT of the contract I will have to qoute you based on the standard rates - no more charity. I estimate about $400. (2 Professional camera + crew x 5 hours)

*****************************************************************

Look, if I do NOT post a reply I will look like a fool, like the boy above, if the boy keep quiet and hide in his home.. most of the town will prob. think that the boy is feeling so guilty and he did certainly cheat the noble.

I do not really wish to post such stuff in here ANYMORE. Alex please settle with the cops if you cannot come to a conclusion. Clupsnap isnt a playground. Besides,

The pissed off boy.

 

[AReality]

One more thing to note, I did not pull out the contract & also allow him to work on the footage for another two weeks but he chose not to.

Btw, I did not post another thread becos I am not so free. My low post is becos I only came here to look for freelancer videographer.....

End of my post for now.

If you did not pull out of the original contract, which no date was stated, and a new contract cannot be established, then isn't it true that the old contract (no date stated) remains?


And can I say that your main purpose here, according to your low post count, is to look for cheap deals?


.

 

[Hobbes00]

FINAL UPDATE
Lets close this thing.
Forget about the 2nd last paragraph

I will pass him the tapes and 50%($100) of the deposit back to him.
2 Angry person wont solve anything.
See you later Alex.

Regards
David

 

[chngpe01]

Hope this is a good lesson or case study for all service providers.

Respect your own works and worth, low pricing is not the only way to a viable business strategy. In all probability it will even kill your business or retard its growth.

Low price will attract more customers but among which a good percentage of those who do not respect your worth not to say your work.

 

[snowspeeder]

Respect your own works and worth, low pricing is not the only way to a viable business strategy. In all probability it will even kill your business or retard its growth.

Low price will attract more customers but among which a good percentage of those who do not respect your worth not to say your work.

This is very true. :thumbsup:

 

[mega32]

We have another professional photographer who took all pictures for us in the event at no charges even we want to refund some transport charges, but he didn't even take it. Is he a monkey? No, because this is his passion....

The professional photographer didn't take the peanut you offered so that does not make him a monkey.
It was charity work.
Maybe he was worried of all the hassle that may happen and his name would be tarnished.
Just like david in this case.

As for david he took the peanut and was made a monkey out of it with all the hassle.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But I am happy that this has all come to an end.

And both of you have come to a mutual agreement.:thumbsup:

 

[mega32]

Hope this is a good lesson or case study for all service providers.

Respect your own works and worth, low pricing is not the only way to a viable business strategy. In all probability it will even kill your business or retard its growth.

Low price will attract more customers but among which a good percentage of those who do not respect your worth not to say your work.

I like what you have said :thumbsup: only wish is that more service providers will follow.

 

[wazzup]

By the way, for that person who write down you paid peanuts, u get monkey & the person who wrote "Song Bo"..... Think before you write. Last year, I manage to pay a production company for $500 to shoot the event & get 17 copies of DVD. I didn't get them this year because the editing is not that great, therefore when I saw David's work, I like it & told him the idea & told him the budget that I can afford, he agreed to it & lastly, he raise up to $550 which I agreed. We have another professional photographer who took all pictures for us in the event at no charges even we want to refund some transport charges, but he didn't even take it. Is he a monkey? No, because this is his passion....

No, because he is an idiot. :bsmilie:

SONG bo?

Pay peanuts want the entire 'mountain and valley' sure chut problems one man... :bsmilie:

SONG leh!

 

[zero_7]

Juz my two cents,

I feel that if people wanna advertise their services to pple, then they shouldn't be using excuses such as "i'm not a professional, I'm juz a NSF, I'm a young boy".

The analogoy given of the boy painting the nobleman's house is warped. Fact of the matter is, the nobleman didn't bump into the innocent boy painting his house.

The boy was telling the world he could do the job at a cheap price. But he didn;t. So whose fault is it?

I think when people offer their services at whatever price, there has to be more responsibility. If not,every tom dick and harry can scream innocence when something screws up. Its a fact,you are always paid to deliver. Whether you are a freelancer or professional, its the same.

Perhaps the nobleman over reacted by threatening to call the police. Perhaps he shouldn't have "paid peanuts" for a "monkey". But i think the point of this whole saga is that even if peanuts is paid, you shd still be able to get your monkey, even if its a young and unprofesional one in their own words.

 

[Hobbes00]

I feel that if people wanna advertise their services to pple, then they shouldn't be using excuses such as "i'm not a professional, I'm juz a NSF, I'm a young boy".

So, will be wrong If photographers declared that "I am not a fulltime photographer" "I am a boss of 4 companies"

The boy was telling the world he could do the job at a cheap price. But he didn;t. So whose fault is it?

Wrong. The reason why the boy could not finish because the dateline was push forward to a date which is impossible for the completion of the painting.

Take a photography job for example, after shooting a long full-day wedding. The client push forward the deadline from 2weeks to TWO days.. to do a FULL 3D photo montage video, coffee book, and proper colour-correction.

 

[vince123123]

Just stick to what was agreed, any deviation is the fault of the person who seeks the deviation.

 

[alex31]

Dear All,

I will be meeting David at 9pm at Lavender MRT tonight to handover the tapes & money $100. If those who want more information or perhaps want to find out the truth, I have it. I will be wearing pink long sleeves & will wait at the control station with the necessary document..

I have nothing to hide, so please confront me with a good case.

David, You can paint whatever picture here but only u know the real picture. Btw, a freelancer can take as long as they can to finish up a project? Think again, after a month & nothing come up of it with some excuse to pass me off. That’s very pro of you.

As per spoken, if the tapes is found in good condition for editing, I will remove the two threads if I can.

Yes I came here to find some cheap service but not all agreed that having cheap service will not get things done here. A lot of people also come in to get wedding photographer / videographer & there are people who want to offer their service with cheaper price because it's two way traffic. I have a few more event coming up but too bad, the first deal has been disappointing.

C you later at 9pm.

 

[Marius79]

Dear All,

Yes I came here to find some cheap service but not all agreed that having cheap service will not get things done here.

i dont know what happen here but i think there is something wrong with your perception. this is not a place to find cheap service. And not everyone here is cheap. not only here, if you look for cheap, you will get something like this for sure. good luck

 

[ortega]

Good, fast and Cheap

You can only choose 2

Good and fast is not cheap
Good and cheap is not fast
Fast and cheap is not good

There is a lesson to be learned by both sides

 

[Hobbes00]

Btw, a freelancer can take as long as they can to finish up a project? Think again, after a month & nothing come up of it with some excuse to pass me off. That’s very pro of you.

1 MONTH is bloody short time.
With $500, minus expenses for my 2nd camera unit($150), 500 - 150 = $350.
With $350 to capture 8 tapes into my computer, and edit it out into LESS THAN TWO HOURS.
Can any video expert tell me this isnt a long time esp at the rate I am charging. Give me 1k to work with then we can talk about 1month.
If not i DID told you from the start I charge higher for accelerated post production.

I think you should do your homework that $500 is a very big bargain.. its like getting someone to build you a car at $9 000, but no fix deadline. - Time factor is the problem of this situation which I am aware and protect myself from.

He kept saying "After one month I didnt do anything" but thats is untrue.
Anyways lets end this zzzzz.. its freaking ugly posting this on the public forum.

dav

 

[wakaowalao]

No, because he is an idiot. :bsmilie:

SONG bo?

Pay peanuts want the entire 'mountain and valley' sure chut problems one man... :bsmilie:

SONG leh!

You really got nothing better to do than scatching other's backside? Song here song there, leave it to your own room and song till you fong!

 

[VSonic06]

My goodness...$500 isn't even a lot of money for ANY form of video work and theres actually TWO threads started to run somebody down over such a pittance.

 

[peepeedog]

i dont know what happen here but i think there is something wrong with your perception. this is not a place to find cheap service. And not everyone here is cheap. not only here, if you look for cheap, you will get something like this for sure. good luck

don't be so naive. Of course people come to this forum to get the best deals, in other words the price that suits them the best. Don't tell me you go to the BNS section and buy the most expensive 2nd hand camera or lens? you are of course looking for the cheapest price you can get for the stated condition of the item. That's how business is done.

The TS doesn't think this is a place for dirt cheap services, but he came here in hope to find a cheaper alternative than the professionals. Most of us scour the forums for cheap services and cheap lens/cameras. Others also come here to seek quality from professionals. This is a forum, a community. A community PROVIDES for all within the community therefore it hosts a wide range of services to fulfill the communities needs. So please think twice before you say "this is not a place to find cheap service".