Bernard Ong
New Member
Kimura_papaya said:
Sounds reasonable although i really dun know which category i belongs to. :sweat:
Free Photographer Needed?
- Thread starter espn
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Sounds reasonable although i really dun know which category i belongs to. :sweat:
marios_pittas
Senior Member
A seasoned HR personnel, especially one who has done events (although in some companies this is handled by the company's PR department nowdays) would know to weight benfits vs costs.espn said:
Just like other people, these people work for a carreer, money etc.. they wouldn't go cheap if "bad photos" would affect their prospects. If bad photos are not an issue though (the photos are not used for PR purposes, there is no curent benchmark to compare against, management does not look through the photos, the VIP will not be given any photos etc), then obviously why not.. just bring your point and shoot and ask for free..
-- Marios
love and passion shouldn't extend to commercial or in house events ... you expect ad&d or weddings to have the kind of excitement in F1 racing, birding etc?
frankly, maybe moderators can create a new forum "looking for free/cheapo photogs"
then of course, maybe the those who are annoyed with such types of posts can ignore that forum.
maybe also have a standard contract for advertising for free services.
a) ideally you must be charity case.
b) photographer will retain all copyrights and negatives where applicable. (eg: personal consumption/fair use, company newsletter, copies are not to be used in commercial activities (eg; for product advertising etc where money changes hands, this of course would be sheer exploitation)
c) the maximum res of photos delivered should be 4R. (digital)
d) film and first time processing costs (for contact sheet) should be born by the "client"
e) transport fee, parking, food and drinks should be provided as a matter of courtesy.
f) you ask for peanuts, sometimes you get peanuts.
frankly, maybe moderators can create a new forum "looking for free/cheapo photogs"
then of course, maybe the those who are annoyed with such types of posts can ignore that forum.
maybe also have a standard contract for advertising for free services.
a) ideally you must be charity case.
b) photographer will retain all copyrights and negatives where applicable. (eg: personal consumption/fair use, company newsletter, copies are not to be used in commercial activities (eg; for product advertising etc where money changes hands, this of course would be sheer exploitation)
c) the maximum res of photos delivered should be 4R. (digital)
d) film and first time processing costs (for contact sheet) should be born by the "client"
e) transport fee, parking, food and drinks should be provided as a matter of courtesy.
f) you ask for peanuts, sometimes you get peanuts.
marios_pittas
Senior Member
On this one you have passed very poor judgement. Even for petty cash you need to issue payment slip (you are still accountable for). Petty cash means that the amount of money is below a certain level and that the "processes" of using it are different.. that that there is some cash lying around a room and peopls can use with no control.espn said:
If there is someone out there is willing to do it for free why stop people from asking for free photographer? For that matter, even there isn't, you will get no answer.
If you got the substance, you dun even worry about anyone spoiling the market. While the lousy photographers under cut and do it for free your good work will still be in demand.
Its a free market, let it determine your REAL worth. If you are a monkey, you may not even get peanuts eventually. Worse a monkey in disguise and yakking about how much he/she is worth, building walls to protect their so-call turf which is non-existence while those who are looking for opportunities to polish their skills are faced with such stewpid obstacles.
*grunt off*
If you got the substance, you dun even worry about anyone spoiling the market. While the lousy photographers under cut and do it for free your good work will still be in demand.
Its a free market, let it determine your REAL worth. If you are a monkey, you may not even get peanuts eventually. Worse a monkey in disguise and yakking about how much he/she is worth, building walls to protect their so-call turf which is non-existence while those who are looking for opportunities to polish their skills are faced with such stewpid obstacles.
*grunt off*
snowspeeder
Senior Member
Usually if pple ask me to take photos for their private events without mentioning about $$, I will assertively tell them to Email me their details of the upcoming event, so that I can revert to them with an official quote. By doing this, they cannot avoid the monetary issue. It's take it or leave it.
To the ones I know better, of course will give them a good discounted price. If they are thick skin enough to bargain with me, I will 'Educate' them by saying: "When u go see a doctor, do u bargain the fees with him? Or when u buy flowers from a florist, do u ask for cheaper roses?" And if they reply:"But its just shoot, then download the soft copies on a CD-R...that simple only wat!". Then I will explain to him my entire digital workflow. Or better still invite him to see how I go thru the processes to derive a nice photo.
So it comes down to this, EDUCATE your clients if need be. There are numerous ignorant pple who sees little and therefore accords little respect to photographers. Well, its up to you whether you want to earn that respect and dignity you so deserve. That I think, is part and parcel of being a professional in this field.
To the ones I know better, of course will give them a good discounted price. If they are thick skin enough to bargain with me, I will 'Educate' them by saying: "When u go see a doctor, do u bargain the fees with him? Or when u buy flowers from a florist, do u ask for cheaper roses?" And if they reply:"But its just shoot, then download the soft copies on a CD-R...that simple only wat!". Then I will explain to him my entire digital workflow. Or better still invite him to see how I go thru the processes to derive a nice photo.
So it comes down to this, EDUCATE your clients if need be. There are numerous ignorant pple who sees little and therefore accords little respect to photographers. Well, its up to you whether you want to earn that respect and dignity you so deserve. That I think, is part and parcel of being a professional in this field.
IMOH, the only way to stop exploitation is to prevent it, and that has to start with the individual photog that is offering free coverage. They have to understand that there are pro photogs trying to earn a living to feed thier children, by doing this causes a disturbance in the market worth... :cry:
Any company who hears that CS is a good hunting ground for free photogs will surely try thier luck, shame on them anyway....
If I were asked to take free photos, this will be my answer:
"Please don't take my kindness as my weakness..."
Any company who hears that CS is a good hunting ground for free photogs will surely try thier luck, shame on them anyway....
If I were asked to take free photos, this will be my answer:
"Please don't take my kindness as my weakness..."
CYRN
Senior Member
loupgarou said:
This I agree... basically in Sg, there are no "benchmarks" regarding charging of photog services and sever lack of Copyrights in photos.
The setting up of sub forums with the necessary "benchmarks" in sticky would. Firstly, educate everyone photog and service requester the basics of the (photog code...or something like that) T&C unless otherwise agreed in statement.
This will also serve as a one-stop pricing guide for all to browse as such it will, on the whole, set appropriate benchmark for Sg photog. (This is on assumption that CS have sufficient pool of photog following the guidelines to influence in industry)
ortega
Moderator
The standard pricing thing is bigger than ClubSnap, it affects the entire market.
Maybe a minimum standard to protect the newbies who want to shoot but are taken advantage of, the pros have nothing to fear as the skills of the newbies will be far away from those of seasoned professionals.
I agree with a standard contract be drawn up to protect the newbie from being exploited. And a minimum amount to cover costs of doing the shoot.
To the newbie, learn to respect yourself first in order to get the respect from others.
Maybe a minimum standard to protect the newbies who want to shoot but are taken advantage of, the pros have nothing to fear as the skills of the newbies will be far away from those of seasoned professionals.
I agree with a standard contract be drawn up to protect the newbie from being exploited. And a minimum amount to cover costs of doing the shoot.
To the newbie, learn to respect yourself first in order to get the respect from others.
satan_18349
Deregistered
One of my friend's sister is getting married next week and NOW then they are finding a photographer to shoot the whole day event for....... $50!!!???? Cos his mother said, "friend friend" ... and they expect digital for unlimted shots...
sigh.. wondering what's the bride and groom esp the mom are thinking... :dunno:
sigh.. wondering what's the bride and groom esp the mom are thinking... :dunno:
I really do not understand why people are so stingy when they need to hire a photographer to document an memorable event, especially something like a wedding. Hire a cheap photographer, expensive does not necessarily means good, but cheap usually gets you someone just starting out, and end up with lousy pictures. However, have you ever looked through some of the pictures, both digital or prints, people show you from their weddings, trips or whatever, the qualities are at the very best marginal. Most of these pictures are infact poor to very bad. So if that is the bench mark, what can we say.satan_18349 said:
espn said:
If you want to look for loopholes, certainly there are ways of finding them. A lot of this petty cash/small claims business is based on trust. But ask yourself, which CEO/Manager is going to risk his job and going to jail just to pilfer a few hundred dollars of photographers' fees? Must be extremely foolish and most unlikely.
marios_pittas said:On this one you have passed very poor judgement. Even for petty cash you need to issue payment slip (you are still accountable for). Petty cash means that the amount of money is below a certain level and that the "processes" of using it are different.. that that there is some cash lying around a room and peopls can use with no control.
Yeah, the manager can sign with "Payment for Photography Services", claiming that he has paid the photographer on behalf of the co and pocket it. After all as mentioned, it can be in forms of petty cash, or a fake receipt/agreement, since the money is meant to be spent, how many will verify it's authencity or protocol?
I'm not making any judgement here, you're mistaken, I'm just clarifying my ideas in what happens when one looks for FREE because of "no/low budget". And wondering the abuse of one's position to pocket money because of loopholes can happen and see if this is one reason why photographers are abused.
Somebody offers free, but pockets that 1K-2K but finds a free photographer promising him/her a transport $20, food $10 and will do own developing to minimise costs. Sounds good eh, both 'earns'. And in the eyes of ordinary people, shots are shot. Doesn't matter pro or not. The semi/hobbist photographers present in the event will just shake head and sigh thinking that the co actually paid that much for a lousy photographer.
If I know everything, I won't need to start this thread, please do not attack me personally, thank you
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