F11 Vertical Banding - Image Quality Issue

[bpribadi]

I will be buying a F11 for my wife on Xmas. The vertical banding will not show on 4R and 8R prints right? Kindly clarify. Heard good reviews about the F10 and can't wait to buy the F11

Care to share the price you bought at MS Color?

If you use ISO 400 and below, you won't see the vertical banding even at large printout. It is only visible at ISO 800 and ISO 1600, at PC monitor at 100% zoom, which is equal to a very large printout. At 4R printout I bet we cannot see it.

Just get one, F11 is a very good camera

You can SMS or call Florence, 97481998, she will give you the best price in town

 

[spinex]

I will be buying a F11 for my wife on Xmas. The vertical banding will not show on 4R and 8R prints right? Kindly clarify. Heard good reviews about the F10 and can't wait to buy the F11

Care to share the price you bought at MS Color?

IMO, women will fancy Z2 more

 

[bpribadi]

I still found banding on my new set

Even though shows less banding than the previous set, it still shows some banding at high ISO on some occasion. So let's just ignore it, it is inherited with the F11 I would say, the high ISO technology with small sensor is just not yet perfect, and I maybe asking too much from this little camera

Curious if the Fine JPG and Standard JPG setting will make a difference, here is the comparison of the two. The left pic is the fine jpg, the right one is the standard one. The standard setting does reduce the banding a little bit, because now the noise is mixed with jpeg artifact, and the noise grain looks a little bit bigger. The standard setting also looks a little bit less sharp, that's why the lines / bands are less obvious (Look at the book on the second pic).

 

[michhy]

Thanks Wai! Your pic's noise looks natural, not like mine. Will go to MS color to verify it, I have SMS them, they said ok, can check

FYI, the banding is more obvious on bright LCD panel, not really obvious on my office CRT which brightness is lowered.

Will update you guys later.

Could it be due to your LCD monitor?

 

[ultrazoom]

Could it be due to your LCD monitor?

Please go through the thread fully if you haven't done so.

 

[Isaiahfortythirtyone]

hmm...honestly, if i were u, i woudlnt be too bothered. i prob wont use it at ISO1600 anyway. and i would be apprehensive to use at ISO800 even. ISO400 is more of a safe ISO level.

even with my 350D, i dont like the noise at ISo800 alreeady.

but i do understand how u feel la. why not bring back to MScolor again? try 3-4 sets and bring laptop to test. see if it happens in all F11's/

 

[n0d3]

I think you worry too much.

 

[bpribadi]

You guys are right! I shouldn't worry too much of it, it is not really a problem, who would print 16R from ISO 1600 anyway

I try to limit myself to ISO 400 for most cases, and I see that ISO 800 and 1600 is still usable for extreme cases.

FYI, I have tried 4 sets, and I did bring my laptop to MS colour for checking the result on the spot ;p

 

[room2vroom]

Looks like a limitation of the camera rather than a manufacturing defect.

 

[bpribadi]

Not to exaggerate this issue, just update it with more information of my finding.

Same camera, same object, same setting (the shutter time difference was caused by difference spot of exposure measurement), the first (left) and the sixth (right), taken within less than 2 minutes. The first no banding, the sixth shows banding.

Looks like it shows banding after the processor gets hot :dunno:

 

[wiz23]

Not to exaggerate this issue, just update it with more information of my finding.

Same camera, same object, same setting (the shutter time difference was caused by difference spot of exposure measurement), the first (left) and the sixth (right), taken within less than 2 minutes. The first no banding, the sixth shows banding.

Looks like it shows banding after the processor gets hot :dunno:

Yah, I noticed on my copy of the F11 also. I guess just don't use ISO800 & above for pics we intend to enlarge lor ... Bo bian

Alternatively, we can switch on, fast fast take ... the first few pics can use lor :bsmilie:

 

[ultrazoom]

Even mine at ISO 400 shows this banding problem.

It's pretty obvious even when I view the affected images fit to screen...

 

[bpribadi]

Even mine at ISO 400 shows this banding problem.

It's pretty obvious even when I view the affected images fit to screen...

My first set was actually shows banding in all ISO range, but at ISO lower than 200, need detective carefull investigation to find it

Anyway... just take more pics and have fun with it Don't really care of this issue anymore

 

[hardcore]

I just bought an F11 last week, and to my disappointment I noticed the same vertical banding issue that you guys have found.

To me, this is unacceptable. The banding problem effectively makes these F11s produce photos worse than a 3 megapixel camera! Even after resizing the photos down to 50%, the banding can still be seen in many cases.

I went back to the shop I bought from, and they graciously allowed me to try several sets of F11s. All of them were from the same batch, and all had the banding problem (although one unit had less).

Finally, I sent my F11 in to the Fuji service center today. I had 3 problems:
(1) vertical banding
(2) intermittent "read error" / corrupted photos, could be a faulty XD card
(3) dead pixel in the middle of the LCD screen

I'm pretty determined to get Fuji to fix this banding problem, if not then I expect a full refund.

BTW, there are several other threads discussing the same issue, but so far none with a conclusive resolution:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=16231135

 

[Firyx]

Hmm.. this doesn't happen to me when i use my F11. I only get a little noise.

 

[yanyewkay]

i have a F11 but never had any 'banding' problems.. could this be heighten from the recent D200 'banding issue' that now everyone starts to look for banding in all their cams?

anyway, F11/F10 is a point and shoot. It doesn't really offer fantastic and highly advanced features that SLRs have. If anyone really want to nitpick and think shooting at ISO800 is unbearable then I suggest you to try ISO800 with any other P&S they think might be better. If you do find one that offers cleaner output at 800 please do update in the fuji forum for the benefit of everyone.

Does anyone use 100% crops when you use your F11? :dunno:

From the previous posts. It seems that the "banding" problem isn't easily replicable everytime. You either need to do this-first,then that followed by using it for a period of time and then that. If anyone can show me how to replicate the banding on my F11? if we can all prove that banding does exists and replicable, we might have a case to throw to fuji.

Else, from isolated cases here and there, it's hard to prove any point to anyone.

btw: I don't have banding problem even after using it at ISO1600 for a wedding dinner. Only some hot pixels during some long exposures.

image: this image takes up about the size of a 4R on my screen. If my 4R looks like this I'm happy.

Make = FUJIFILM
Model = FinePix F11

Exposure Time = 1/160"
F Number = F2.8
ISO Speed Ratings = 1600
Exif Version = Version 2.2
Shutter Speed Value = 7.36 TV
Aperture Value = 3 AV
Brightness Value = 1.5 BV
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F2.83
Metering Mode = Pattern
Light Source = unknown
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 8mm


100% crop

 

[hardcore]

From the previous posts. It seems that the "banding" problem isn't easily replicable everytime. You either need to do this-first,then that followed by using it for a period of time and then that. If anyone can show me how to replicate the banding on my F11? if we can all prove that banding does exists and replicable, we might have a case to throw to fuji.

Else, from isolated cases here and there, it's hard to prove any point to anyone.

I wish my F11 was like yours. Some points to clarify:

1. The banding happens all the time! No need any special scenarios to reproduce, almost all the photos have it, from low ISO (200) to high ISO (1600), except for high ISO it is more apparent.

2. ALL the F11s that I tested have this problem. I tested 4 sets at a popular shop in Sim Lim Square - all the sets have it. bpribadi tested a few at another popular shop, all of them also had it.

3. I am very sure there are some F11s which do not have the banding, like yours for example. In my opinion, ALL F11s should not have the banding, as proven by F10/F11 reviewer's photos and positive experiences from users such as yourself.

My intention is to:

1. Raise consumer awareness about this problem, so that they know the potential risks of getting a "faulty" F11. It IS a problem, most likely a manufacturing quality issue.

2. Get feedback from any users such as yourself, who do NOT have this problem. Hopefully with your help, us problem sufferers will be able to get Fuji to fix the affected F11s for free.

Anyway, since I've already sent in my F11 to Fuji, lets await to see if they can fix the problem or not.

 

[yanyewkay]

I wish my F11 was like yours. Some points to clarify:

1. The banding happens all the time! No need any special scenarios to reproduce, almost all the photos have it, from low ISO (200) to high ISO (1600), except for high ISO it is more apparent.

2. ALL the F11s that I tested have this problem. I tested 4 sets at a popular shop in Sim Lim Square - all the sets have it. bpribadi tested a few at another popular shop, all of them also had it.

3. I am very sure there are some F11s which do not have the banding, like yours for example. In my opinion, ALL F11s should not have the banding, as proven by F10/F11 reviewer's photos and positive experiences from users such as yourself.

My intention is to:

1. Raise consumer awareness about this problem, so that they know the potential risks of getting a "faulty" F11. It IS a problem, most likely a manufacturing quality issue.

2. Get feedback from any users such as yourself, who do NOT have this problem. Hopefully with your help, us problem sufferers will be able to get Fuji to fix the affected F11s for free.

Anyway, since I've already sent in my F11 to Fuji, lets await to see if they can fix the problem or not.

please do update us when you get your camera back. more importantly read what the service report says and what they did.

I'm also interested to know if there really is any hidden problems that might surface in my cam in future.

Good luck!

 

[hardcore]

please do update us when you get your camera back. more importantly read what the service report says and what they did.

I'm also interested to know if there really is any hidden problems that might surface in my cam in future.

Good luck!

Thanks! I hope for good news next week. Anyway, here's some more sample shots to show how the banding can affect everyday photos:

Unfortunately, I took about 300 photos with the F11 during a short holiday, and now have to figure out a way to remove the banding. I find that applying a Gaussian blur filter, and after that re-sharpening, then reducing the size by 50% or so helps to remove/lessen the banding. But of course, a lot of resolution is lost as well.

 

[yanyewkay]

i don't think you need to do all those if you aren't going to view them at 100% all the time. printing to 4R will not show the 'bands' also.