EF 24-105 f/4 vs EF-S 17-55 f/2.8

[SumoBear]

I think the 70-200mm range is not really a requirement for most of us since that is a bit long and you should have bought it before the price hike I suppose and this does not happen frequent... Now, the yen is rising, the lens price could go up soon too....

Actually, I am certain both will fit my range.... that's why I was in a dilemma... shooting in lower light won this... plus IS... and IQ...... After I get this, my other issue is slow AF of 400D.... and that will be another upgrade the next round.....

I suppose you have since sold the 17-85mm........

Thank you for your sharing bro!!

Hi Halfmoon,

I am stilling holding on to my 400D and the slow focusing is really killing me and making me miss a lot shots. Just want to ask if your focusing has been improved after using the L lens? As in the Ring-USM helps to speed up the focusing?

My 50mm F1.4 USM is slow with the 400D but I understand that the lens is equipped with a micro USM and not the ring type.

 

[Halfmoon]

Hi Halfmoon,

I am stilling holding on to my 400D and the slow focusing is really killing me and making me miss a lot shots. Just want to ask if your focusing has been improved after using the L lens? As in the Ring-USM helps to speed up the focusing?

My 50mm F1.4 USM is slow with the 400D but I understand that the lens is equipped with a micro USM and not the ring type.

I paired my 400D with the L lens previously, 17-40mm F4L.... and I had pair it with the 28-105mm 3.4-4.5 II USM lens, and the autofocus is really fast in bright condition. If you are shooting in dark condition, it will focus hunt... or when I shooting a low contrast background.. the hunt is also ridiculous.. and cannot focus at all...

I believe this is due to the AF system on the 400D.... and that's why I had shortlisted either the 6D or 7D as a replacement for 400D.... The 7D/60D uses cross-auto focus point and will be much faster in the auto focus, especially in lower light and dimmer condition..... I have not tested the 7D extensively yet.... but the focus is really fast, and in low light, it seems to be able to lock on pretty well too.... many times better that the 400D....

I think the 50mm F1.4 issue should not be the problem... I have used 35mm F2 on 400D and in bright day light, it can focus really fast too... only in lower light condition....

Maybe it is time for you to consider a body change too like myself..... I will await till 60D landed before I think about upgrading....

By the way.... what do you shoot, or when you encounter the slow AF problems????

 

[Halfmoon]

The 17-55mm is not a weather-sealed lens. Plus, if you notice the design of the lens... the front extends and retracts as you adjust the zoom. There is a gap at this point, where dust can get in. So, if you extend and retract the zoom a lot, some dust will inevitably get in. This is true for canon non-L lenses where the front element extends when zooming, and not just this lens. However, we all know that it takes quite a lot of dust at the lens to affect the IQ of the lens. Those people who complain about the dust under the lens are:

a) Lens collectors... who spend more time sayanging their lens than taking pictures.
b) Lens traders... who will scrutinise the dust and use them as a bargaining chip.
c) Professional photographers who use the lens in harsh environments... like the dessert.

For the rest of us, so what if some dust gets in? We can always send to Canon service centre, spend a bit of money, and get it serviced... and we only do it once in a long long while. After which, the lens will be clean again. The fact that it is not an L lens, also mean that servicing is cheaper. L lenses cost a bomb to service... so unless you really need the build of the L, it is more economical to buy a non-L. I am actually very happy that Canon did not make this lens an L. Else, I will have to pay more for it, possibly lug around more weight, and it costs more to service.

btw... I'm sure I have some dust in my lens, but I have not checked it for dust... Why? Simply because the lens continues to help me take nice pictures, which is the main reason I have this lens. I do not care if there is some dust in it... do you?

I do not really worry about dust since it is not going to affect the picture quality...... but just wonder how bad the dust situation is.... just like to know only la.... my 28-105mm 3.5-4.5 MK II should have quite a bit of dust too..... but as long as it is not affecting the picture quality..... and it is not fungus..... I am ok with it...

Maybe some people are simply irritated by the dusts..... I do shine a LED flash into the lens, and boy.... you can see all the dusts.... I do check my lens from time to time after I had one fungus lens previously..... I can understand why people feel irritated.... guess only the weather and dust sealed L are able o be exempted from this.....

 

[Halfmoon]

the 24-105 also extends and retracts when I zoom in and out. however I like the reach of the 105mm on the 24-105 against the 55mm provided by the 17-55.

the price of the 24-105 is also slightly cheaper in B&S section of Clubsnap, averaging SGD1250 against SGD1300 for 17-55mm

Some prefer the f2.8 and the wide angle of the 17-55mm... it is really a personal choice I suppose, depending on users and requirement of the shoot....

 

[SumoBear]

I paired my 400D with the L lens previously, 17-40mm F4L.... and I had pair it with the 28-105mm 3.4-4.5 II USM lens, and the autofocus is really fast in bright condition. If you are shooting in dark condition, it will focus hunt... or when I shooting a low contrast background.. the hunt is also ridiculous.. and cannot focus at all...

I believe this is due to the AF system on the 400D.... and that's why I had shortlisted either the 6D or 7D as a replacement for 400D.... The 7D/60D uses cross-auto focus point and will be much faster in the auto focus, especially in lower light and dimmer condition..... I have not tested the 7D extensively yet.... but the focus is really fast, and in low light, it seems to be able to lock on pretty well too.... many times better that the 400D....

I think the 50mm F1.4 issue should not be the problem... I have used 35mm F2 on 400D and in bright day light, it can focus really fast too... only in lower light condition....

Maybe it is time for you to consider a body change too like myself..... I will await till 60D landed before I think about upgrading....

By the way.... what do you shoot, or when you encounter the slow AF problems????

I am about to rent a L lens to try on my 400D. Just want to test the performance of better lens and hope for an improved focusing.

From the beginning, I always thought USM means good focusing speed but I am wrong after learning my lesson for not doing sufficient research before buying. 50mm F1.4 USM uses the micro-USM which is not as fast as the Ring-type USM that can be found in the L lenses and other better quality lens. So the 50mm F1.4 is a love and hate relationship, complicated...

The 50mm F1.4 is permanently mounted on my 400D and my primary subject is normally my young daughter. It is hard to focus on my constantly active and bubbly daughter, and ended up wasting alot of precious shots. The search is terrible under low light too....

 

[Halfmoon]

I am about to rent a L lens to try on my 400D. Just want to test the performance of better lens and hope for an improved focusing.

From the beginning, I always thought USM means good focusing speed but I am wrong after learning my lesson for not doing sufficient research before buying. 50mm F1.4 USM uses the micro-USM which is not as fast as the Ring-type USM that can be found in the L lenses and other better quality lens. So the 50mm F1.4 is a love and hate relationship, complicated...

The 50mm F1.4 is permanently mounted on my 400D and my primary subject is normally my young daughter. It is hard to focus on my constantly active and bubbly daughter, and ended up wasting alot of precious shots. The search is terrible under low light too....

Ring USM focusing speed is very good... but as I have no experience with the micro motor USM on 50mm.... I cannot comment on it, but my 24mm F2.8 & 35mm F2 is using AFD motor, and it is pretty fast too, thought it make a Buzzing sound, hence the nickname "Bee"......

400D is digital.... so I doubt you are wasting that much shots.....

How old is your daughter??? Well... in shooting young subject who does not follow instructions... usually, a lot plays on the part of the photographer anticipating the child's reaction..... That's why pro are worth their salt....

Still..... I think L lens should not make much different in the AF in low light condition as the issue is the 400D body Autofocus (AF) system..... I think should get another body if FC permits.....

 

[zarray]

I am about to rent a L lens to try on my 400D. Just want to test the performance of better lens and hope for an improved focusing.

From the beginning, I always thought USM means good focusing speed but I am wrong after learning my lesson for not doing sufficient research before buying. 50mm F1.4 USM uses the micro-USM which is not as fast as the Ring-type USM that can be found in the L lenses and other better quality lens. So the 50mm F1.4 is a love and hate relationship, complicated...

The 50mm F1.4 is permanently mounted on my 400D and my primary subject is normally my young daughter. It is hard to focus on my constantly active and bubbly daughter, and ended up wasting alot of precious shots. The search is terrible under low light too....

honestly you are better off with a better body.
Ring USM lenses may be fast but if the camera body is unable to lock on to the intended focus point then you're still stuck with the same problem.

Perhaps a 7D or 1D is better for your application regarding continuous AF tracking. If shooting still in one-shot mode, having a flash does help alot with its AF-assist IR beam

 

[stonefish35]

I am about to rent a L lens to try on my 400D. Just want to test the performance of better lens and hope for an improved focusing.

From the beginning, I always thought USM means good focusing speed but I am wrong after learning my lesson for not doing sufficient research before buying. 50mm F1.4 USM uses the micro-USM which is not as fast as the Ring-type USM that can be found in the L lenses and other better quality lens. So the 50mm F1.4 is a love and hate relationship, complicated...

The 50mm F1.4 is permanently mounted on my 400D and my primary subject is normally my young daughter. It is hard to focus on my constantly active and bubbly daughter, and ended up wasting alot of precious shots. The search is terrible under low light too....

Bear, you will be better off getting the XX D series, or 7D.

My 24-105 focus slower on my 5D compared to my 40D, due to the different focusing system in both body.

 

[Halfmoon]

Bear, you will be better off getting the XX D series, or 7D.

My 24-105 focus slower on my 5D compared to my 40D, due to the different focusing system in both body.

Fish, are you on the original 5D?

 

[eycoW]

sorry to ask, what's with the EF-S lens that you dislike?

Can't EF-S lens use on FF camera?

 

[2evans]

sorry to ask, what's with the EF-S lens that you dislike?

Can't EF-S lens use on FF camera?

EFS lenses are designed for the smaller sensors and have a slightly different mounting system. Unless you modify the back of the lens, they do not naturally fit on FF cameras.

 

[2evans]

Bear, you will be better off getting the XX D series, or 7D.

My 24-105 focus slower on my 5D compared to my 40D, due to the different focusing system in both body.

Are you using centre focus? I know on the 5dmk2, it has 6 hidden sensors that help assist in focusing.

 

[SumoBear]

Ring USM focusing speed is very good... but as I have no experience with the micro motor USM on 50mm.... I cannot comment on it, but my 24mm F2.8 & 35mm F2 is using AFD motor, and it is pretty fast too, thought it make a Buzzing sound, hence the nickname "Bee"......

400D is digital.... so I doubt you are wasting that much shots.....

How old is your daughter??? Well... in shooting young subject who does not follow instructions... usually, a lot plays on the part of the photographer anticipating the child's reaction..... That's why pro are worth their salt....

Still..... I think L lens should not make much different in the AF in low light condition as the issue is the 400D body Autofocus (AF) system..... I think should get another body if FC permits.....

Maybe I am demanding too much from my lens, the lens hunt under low light when I am indoor or at night. I do not like to use flash as natural mood lighting is always my preferred source.

My daughter is coming to 2 years old, you can browse my Flickr album (link @ my signature). I believe I have captured a great amount of photos but at the same time losing quite a number of them when the camera starts to search. Playing and getting my daughter's attention is not that bad for me and in fact I prefer to shoot the journalistic way to document my daughter's daily life, so will try not to bother her so much.

Was about to jump boat to get get a 5D MKII but my $$$ went to my new Apple iMac in the end coz my old age laptop failed on me. Now I am happily having a powerful iMac to edit my videos and photos of my daughter. So gotta start saving again for the camera but meanwhile I am not sure if I should get a better lens to prolong the life of the 400D.

 

[neech7]

Are you using centre focus? I know on the 5dmk2, it has 6 hidden sensors that help assist in focusing.

So does the original 5D. Both 5Ds have identical AF system.

 

[stonefish35]

Fish, are you on the original 5D?

Yes I am on the 5D and not the 5DM2. Both body use the same focusing system, that is only centre is cross. The XX D series body is all 9 pt cross, which is why I say XX D series focus faster. Unless user select centre focusing pt only. Which the XX D and my 5D will be on par.

 

[stonefish35]

Maybe I am demanding too much from my lens, the lens hunt under low light when I am indoor or at night. I do not like to use flash as natural mood lighting is always my preferred source.

My daughter is coming to 2 years old, you can browse my Flickr album (link @ my signature). I believe I have captured a great amount of photos but at the same time losing quite a number of them when the camera starts to search. Playing and getting my daughter's attention is not that bad for me and in fact I prefer to shoot the journalistic way to document my daughter's daily life, so will try not to bother her so much.

Was about to jump boat to get get a 5D MKII but my $$$ went to my new Apple iMac in the end coz my old age laptop failed on me. Now I am happily having a powerful iMac to edit my videos and photos of my daughter. So gotta start saving again for the camera but meanwhile I am not sure if I should get a better lens to prolong the life of the 400D.

Bear, I understand where you are coming from as my mum takes care of my niece and I like to capture her in her most natural way, without any camera flash disturbing that. Let me share with you my experience and maybe you can decide from there ?

I used to be using a 40D + 17-55 f2.8 IS USM. And recently I got a 5D + 24-105mm f4 IS USM.

- 40D + 17-55 f2.8 IS USM ( random focus pt ) hunting / focusing is fast. No question about it.

- 5D + 24-105mm f4 IS USM ( random focus pt ) hunting / focusing is slower than the 40D combination due the the body and f2.8 and f4 lens.

24-105mm hunts slow on my 5D compared to 40D ( random focus pt ) .

So you see, fast or slow focusing, depends on both body and lens.


For you I would say a XX D body + 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM is a very good combination for capturing your daughter's fast movements and without using flash. Of course, there will be times that you feel f2.8 is also not fast enough.

If I am like shooting 80% of my photos, on my niece, I would still stick to XX D body and my workhorse 17-55mm which is like on the 40D for 95% of the time.

And among the 40D , 50D and 60D, I will still stick to my 40D as I see no significant improvement in the 50 or 60D. They are good to have, but not going to help me take a better photo of my niece. 40D 2nd hand will be the best value for $$ XX D body for me . The savings from getting a 40D over the 50 or 60D can contribute to getting the 17-55, both 2nd hand , you shld be able to get the combi at around 2k in CS B & S

But since I am beginning to shoot more of landscape, thats why i switch to 5D.

When I have my own children in a few yrs time, I may get back the XX D + 17-55mm combi as a 2nd body, when my career is more successful later on in life .

Hope my sharing of my experience helps you to make your decision..

 

[SumoBear]

Hi StoneFish,

Thanks for sharing

it is a great case study for reference but I am actually feeling lost after reading because I am not sure what should I be aiming for the next upgrade. A lens or body 1st? I do not have a great budget and will need to save really hard to buy something. If I am going to get a 60D, I will probably get the body 1st and save up for a better lens. Kit lens....hmmm I am not so sure.

 

[Halfmoon]

Yes I am on the 5D and not the 5DM2. Both body use the same focusing system, that is only centre is cross. The XX D series body is all 9 pt cross, which is why I say XX D series focus faster. Unless user select centre focusing pt only. Which the XX D and my 5D will be on par.

Only center is cross??? For it's price, I was expecting 9 cross..... I was wondering if Canon will come out a 3D.... a FF for sports, between 5D and 1D....

But for me, I confirm my 400D days are limited, as I find it limiting my shooting of fast subjects.....

 

[hacktic]

i'm happy i have the best bang for buck combi now
40D + 17-55

 

[Halfmoon]

Maybe I am demanding too much from my lens, the lens hunt under low light when I am indoor or at night. I do not like to use flash as natural mood lighting is always my preferred source.

My daughter is coming to 2 years old, you can browse my Flickr album (link @ my signature). I believe I have captured a great amount of photos but at the same time losing quite a number of them when the camera starts to search. Playing and getting my daughter's attention is not that bad for me and in fact I prefer to shoot the journalistic way to document my daughter's daily life, so will try not to bother her so much.

Was about to jump boat to get get a 5D MKII but my $$$ went to my new Apple iMac in the end coz my old age laptop failed on me. Now I am happily having a powerful iMac to edit my videos and photos of my daughter. So gotta start saving again for the camera but meanwhile I am not sure if I should get a better lens to prolong the life of the 400D.

Everyone of us have demand, and I do not think that you are demanding too much... but maybe just understand the issue and problem you are facing... as Fish have already mentioned, AF system depend not only the lens, but also the body Auto focus system.... in our case, it is due to the 400D body AF system that have problem focusing under low light condition...

I understand what you mean when you want to capture the image under nature lighting condition..... Under this condition, the only issue to solve the AF in camera body.... Lens focusing speed is not the problem, as I am sure even micro USM is not that slow... The 400D is now limiting your shooting at times.

I am encountering the same issue now too, as I have the focus hunt problem at time when I needed to do a snap shot..... and I would miss the shot... so I am also planning to upgrade my body some time next year too.... If you have no need for any other lens, you could get the body next before the lens....

Shooting kids need a lot of anticipation... so you can work on it and while still using your 400D.... pre-focusing is a technique you could try to overcome the slow AF issue... but just spend within your means, and budget carefully.... Photography is a hobby, so no need to spend that much...

Do you have an external flash??? That is either 270, 430 or 580??? Alternative is to bounce the flash upwards..... I think such pictures look nicer...... but it is subjective.....