defense for pple sued by odex?

[yqt]

That is why we are saying Odex might have no case but by using legal jargon and sending letters, they make it seem like they have. And force parents to just pay up and hush hush the whole matter. The parents dont know their rights and most are not interested to know, they auto think they are in the wrong.

I don't think we can say for sure Odex don't have a case, this is not tested in court yet. As you have mentioned, Odex MIGHT not have a case. Key word being MIGHT.

What have already been tested in court is that Singnet have already lost their case to prevent Odex from getting the IPs of suspected down-loaders, base on Odex's case of going after illegal down-loaders, which in my limited layman's understanding seems to mean the court agreed with Odex that since downloading is illegal, they have a case to go after them.

The crux of the matter is that downloading is illegal, how Odex is going to prove to the courts, how much they are going/willing to spend, how much will be the damage and more importantly, if this will be followed by a criminal charge by the AG office is something which no one knows for sure but is a very real possibility.

This being the case, which parent is willing to take the risk?

 

[vince123123]

Just to add on, Odex can only start a civil suit if it is the rights owner or exclusive licensee. Distribution rights alone will not cut it.

Note that this is with the assumption that Odex does their homework properly and are going after downloaders who have downloaded titles that Odex has distribution rights to.

_

 

[yqt]

they haven't sued an individual yet, they probably just scare them into submission at this stage. if the cases go into the courtroom, i don't think our judges will let Odex take advantage of Singapore law to make profits

I do believe that our judges will NOT let Odex take advantage of Singapore law to make profits. But the law is the law, if Odex can prove that the downloading took place and the judge agreed that that downloading is illegal, there's grounds for Odex to write to the AG's office to file a complain and push them to pursues the matter which may in turn mean another fine with a criminal record. This is the Fear which Odex is trying to impress on others.

Even if Odex is only awarded $1/-, they just need to spend money on one good case and use the criminal case as an example to strike fear into others.

 

[eikin]

I don't think we can say for sure Odex don't have a case, this is not tested in court yet. As you have mentioned, Odex MIGHT not have a case. Key word being MIGHT.

What have already been tested in court is that Singnet have already lost their case to prevent Odex from getting the IPs of suspected down-loaders, base on Odex's case of going after illegal down-loaders, which in my limited layman's understanding seems to mean the court agreed with Odex that since downloading is illegal, they have a case to go after them.

The crux of the matter is that downloading is illegal, how Odex is going to prove to the courts, how much they are going/willing to spend, how much will be the damage and more importantly, if this will be followed by a criminal charge by the AG office is something which no one knows for sure but is a very real possibility.

This being the case, which parent is willing to take the risk?

if the parents are afraid of trouble, well, no one can help them. for those who want their doubts sorted out, i think with the various forums discussing the matter there seems to be many possibilities for action.

 

[eikin]

I do believe that our judges will NOT let Odex take advantage of Singapore law to make profits. But the law is the law, if Odex can prove that the downloading took place and the judge agreed that that downloading is illegal, there's grounds for Odex to write to the AG's office to file a complain and push them to pursues the matter which may in turn mean another fine with a criminal record. This is the Fear which Odex is trying to impress on others.

Even if Odex is only awarded $1/-, they just need to spend money on one good case and use the criminal case as an example to strike fear into others.

even if it's been proven that the child broke the law, i do not believe that Odex can still go around asking for compensation like what they are doing now. there are many possible outcomes, maybe the parents will be fined, maybe the child will be warned without fine, it's not like it hasn't happen before with regards to internet downloading. if the latter happens, Odex will only be able to send out warning letters, their case to ask for $3000-$5000 compensation will just turn to ashes.

 

[yqt]

even if it's been proven that the child broke the law, i do not believe that Odex can still go around asking for compensation like what they are doing now. there are many possible outcomes, maybe the parents will be fined, maybe the child will be warned without fine, it's not like it hasn't happen before with regards to internet downloading. if the latter happens, Odex will only be able to send out warning letters, their case to ask for $3000-$5000 compensation will just turn to ashes.

If the AG office do take action and the parent is fine and the child is let off with a warning it also means that the court fine the parent or child (depending on who the AG office is going after), guilty of a criminal offense and that person will have a criminal record. It is this fear of a criminal record which will push people to try to come to a settlement with Odex.

 

[eikin]

If the AG office do take action and the parent is fine and the child is let off with a warning it also means that the court fine the parent or child (depending on who the AG office is going after), guilty of a criminal offense and that person will have a criminal record. It is this fear of a criminal record which will push people to try to come to a settlement with Odex.

you sure there'll be criminal record? record for the child or the parent?

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

If the AG office do take action and the parent is fine and the child is let off with a warning it also means that the court fine the parent or child (depending on who the AG office is going after), guilty of a criminal offense and that person will have a criminal record. It is this fear of a criminal record which will push people to try to come to a settlement with Odex.

i don't think such cases are criminal offense...

cos its a very very grey area of stealing, unlike the act of stealing material object.

If so, we download 1 ringtone, 1 wallpaper, etc... then go to jail... think we can see emptiness in the internet....

no point for even 512kbps already... use back 56k enuff liao...

 

[yqt]

Just to add on, Odex can only start a civil suit if it is the rights owner or exclusive licensee. Distribution rights alone will not cut it.

I'm not too sure about this.

They must have some sort of rights to pursue the down-loaders for the court to rule in their favor over Singnet when they go to court to ask for the IPs, right?

The court must have considered if they are the rightful person to ask for the IPs, right?

Again, I'm not too sure about this but it do seem logical. If not, Singnet could just refuse base on the fact that Odex have no rights to ask for the info and the case will be thrown out. Right?

 

[vince123123]

Actually, there is a specific provision in the Copyright Act which does detail out criminal offences.

i don't think such cases are criminal offense...

cos its a very very grey area of stealing, unlike the act of stealing material object.

If so, we download 1 ringtone, 1 wallpaper, etc... then go to jail... think we can see emptiness in the internet....

no point for even 512kbps already... use back 56k enuff liao...

 

[yqt]

you sure there'll be criminal record? record for the child or the parent?

That's the problem, not sure and thus fear of the unknown.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

I'm not too sure about this.

They must have some sort of rights to pursue the down-loaders for the court to rule in their favor over Singnet when they go to court to ask for the IPs, right?

The court must have considered if they are the rightful person to ask for the IPs, right?

Again, I'm not too sure about this but it do seem logical. If not, Singnet could just refuse base on the fact that Odex have no rights to ask for the info and the case will be thrown out. Right?

i thought singtel just release without any contest? u wan i give kind...

only starhub resisted... pacnet also...

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Actually, there is a specific provision in the Copyright Act which does detail out criminal offences.

lawyer, can gimme the detail? i scared i kena without even knowing... ignorance is bliss.. :bsmilie:

 

[eikin]

I'm not too sure about this.

They must have some sort of rights to pursue the down-loaders for the court to rule in their favor over Singnet when they go to court to ask for the IPs, right?

The court must have considered if they are the rightful person to ask for the IPs, right?

Again, I'm not too sure about this but it do seem logical. If not, Singnet could just refuse base on the fact that Odex have no rights to ask for the info and the case will be thrown out. Right?

not many people know what happened between Odex and the ISPs, and they are not releasing much information themselves. since the case is spreading at such a rate, and since Odex wants to go after so many subscribers, maybe it's only right that the subscribers know what exactly went on in the courtroom. :think:

 

[eikin]

That's the problem, not sure and thus fear of the unknown.

:think:

some of my friends were chatting about this, one of them knows an IP lawyer, will ask and find out, but i don't believe that a child of unlawful age can be criminalised, nor the parents for letting their kids use the subscription.

 

[garou12]

not many people know what happened between Odex and the ISPs, and they are not releasing much information themselves. since the case is spreading at such a rate, and since Odex wants to go after so many subscribers, maybe it's only right that the subscribers know what exactly went on in the courtroom. :think:

ya how come they never release what happened in that court room? Its sealed is it?

 

[garou12]

As i mentioned before is what i want to know is do the people who fight back even have a fighting chance?

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

As i mentioned before is what i want to know is do the people who fight back even have a fighting chance?

Unless Superman comes to save the day...

Or....















Lois Lane also dio 1 of the letter... :devil:

 

[yqt]

unless...

1) all those who tio letter "sponsor" one guy go court to fight...if he wins, xedo no case against the rest

2) someone feeling very righteous and willing to spend his/her own money to save everyone else

3) someone feeling rich

4) some lawyer takes up the case for free

edit: just read an article in today's TODAY....webby here
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/206667.asp

i don't think such cases are criminal offense...

cos its a very very grey area of stealing, unlike the act of stealing material object.

If so, we download 1 ringtone, 1 wallpaper, etc... then go to jail... think we can see emptiness in the internet....

no point for even 512kbps already... use back 56k enuff liao...

Taken from the link above:

"It has been about two years since the Copyright Act was amended to introduce the new section 136(3A), under which the making of copies even for personal consumption may not only lead to civil claims for compensation but may also constitute a crime if "the extent of the infringement is significant".

So far not tested so don't know what constitute as "significant". Anyone want to try? DCA? :bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[garou12]

Unless Superman comes to save the day...

Or....















Lois Lane also dio 1 of the letter... :devil:

That avatar i use is not superman. Its very obvious its not superman, unless your eye got serious problem. Get your idea straight. And ot aside your joke not funny, asking a serious question here.